will the dogwood thrive in your z5???

ken

Yes, they are hardy to zone three. I've got two in the back yard and they came from a local nursery that grows their stock in WI as well.

You might want to reconsider the placement of the Dicentra spectabilis Valentine. In my garden at least, Dicentra doesn't completely die back by mid summer, but they do start to look a bit ratty. I believe there have been other discussions about Dicentra and whether or not they go dormant in summer. For some people they do, others they do not. If it does so for you, there would be quite a big hole in your planting.

Personally, although I love Viola flowers, I would never ever plant it again. It's just too darned invasive. I have been trying to rid my gardens of it for years now. It's not bad when it self seeds in open areas, but when it self seeds right in the middle of some other plant (which it always does) digging it out is almost impossible.

Again, depending on the amount of sun this area receives, I would also reconsider Heuchera. These really aren't shade plants although there appears to be a lot of info online suggesting they are. Maybe in the South, but not in our part of the country. I grow a lot of varieties of Heuchera and all receive at least 1/2 day of sun - maybe more. Shade has never worked for me.

You might want to consider finding a spot for Polygonatum odoratum "Variegatum". You seemed to indicate this area might be dry shade and you couldn't find a better plant for those conditions.

Kevin

The lobelia is going to want even moisture as I believe will the globeflower (are we talking about trollius?) I agree with Kevin on the bleeding heart. In cooler summers it stays green all summer but in hot weather like I had last summer it went dormant, even with plenty of rain. From your pic it looks as though the east end of the house will get a fair amount of sunlight (I don't see anything close by to block sun, so you have a few more options on the end. Will you be providing supplemental water or do you want plants that once established will be able tough it out? Just a few things to think about.

I'd reconsider the oakleaf hydrangea - not that it isn't a great plant (one of my favorite hydrangeas) but just that it should get a lot bigger than the area you have planned for it. 8'x8' is entirely possible and pruning will reduce flowering potential. Maybe replace with a dwarf variety like 'Pee Wee' (3'x3-4') or 'Syke's Dwarf'? They also bloom better and develop much better fall color with a fair amount of sun.

As to the heuchera, the "off" colored ones (lime, peach, buff or toffee colored) tend not to be as vigorous as the red or green forms. Consider one like 'Green Spice' - this is a robust variety with green leaves and silver veining - the veining takes on red tones in cold weather. They do like a rich soil and even moisture.

In my climate, green leaved Dicentra spectabilis goes dormant quite early in the season without fail - the gold leaved form ('Goldheart') holds up nicely much longer. And I do not live in a hot summer area :-)

I was just wondering about the shape of the bed itself. Does it have to be straight for a reason? Is the gravel strip for drainage or something? You have a lovely curve to the concrete but the bed ignores it. Could you bring the bed right out to the curve?

My second thought is that there is no winter interest apart from the 2 deciduous shrubs. I don't know your climate so maybe winter appearance is not important if you have a lot of snow. But if it's going to be looked at all year round you might consider something evergreen in the shrub choices to hold it together when the perennials are dormant/looking scruffy.

OK ....

one.. native dogwoods are hardy ... the foo foo variegated ones are BORDERLINE in my estimate and experience .... its all about whatever little microclimate you can provide ...... good luck with that ... it is a GIANT investment ... but be aware it might fail.. the reflection of winter sun off the driveway MAY complicate all that .. [in other words, that little microclimate may or may not work]

otherwise.. your design is ... SIMPLY in my opinion.. WAY OVER PLANTED ....

exactly how wide is it from the house to the brick line???? looks like maybe 4 feet ... and if you look close at the top pic.. i would not plant in the dry area under the eave ... and i would leave space to wash windows ...

if you remove all that area.. i would guess you have a 25% excess ... i like to leave room to work on the house .. it never needs fixing or work.. until the planting is perfect.. then you have to go tromp thru it all ....

all that said.. you knock yourself out and have fun.. and disregard anything i suggest if you wish .. you asked for opinion ..

good luck

ken

I don't know if it's overplanted, but I do agree about future house maintenance issues. I'm a fanatic with washings windows and trying to work around my plantings is challenging to say the least. Keep that in mind when you do yours.

I also ran into problems when I had to paint my house. I had a huge viburnum of some sorts next to the house and it was absolutely impossible to use the ladder anywhere near it. I started trimming and trimming and trimming until nothing was left. Nothing remains of that shrub except a stump, but that's the way it had to be.

Kevin

Lots of good information & suggestions here. I planted a similar bed on the north side of my garage a few years ago. I wanted mostly hostas but added quite a few other shade lovers for full season interest. I curved the bed to a center point so it would go round the corners of the garage on either end. Interspersed among the hostas I've got toad lily and black snakeroot for late season interest, astilbe, columbine, lady's mantle, brunnera, lungwort, Japanese painted ferns, white bleeding heart and hellebores. Carex 'Ice Dance' has a spot at the center so that when the white bleeding heart goes dormant, it's camouflaged by the variegated grass in front and H. 'Krossa Regal' & 'Regal Splendor' behind.

I don't have home maintenance issues since the house & garage roof are new but it is something to consider. I purposely added curves because everything else here was straight lines when I moved in. I'm gradually changing that but it takes time.

As far as overplanting, I've got nearly as many plants in my garage bed as you've drawn into your design although none of mine are large trees. We had a drought last year with not a drop of rain from June to October. Other than the toad lily and astilbe which I watered, everything came through with flying colors.

BTW - Although I'm zone 6, I'm within shouting distance of zone 5. USDA has me as Z5b but the average winter temperatures don't support that. I'm in north central CT so quite a long ways from those Tennessee Z6 folks.

Thanks for all the comments. I really want to include a Bleeding Heart, so I'll maybe shift a few things to accommodate. I think, like gardenweed, I'll try to put something in front of it to hide it when it starts to decline.

Unfortunately the bed needs to stay straight. The concrete and gravel belong to our neighbors. The line there is pretty much our property line. We do get snow and part of the bed becomes a repository for our neighbor's driveway snow which is why I've avoided evergreens. I do plan on winter protecting the two shrubs (though the oak leaf hydrangea corner doesn't get as much snow since the neighbor's driveway curves away there.)

Gardengal - Thanks for the recommendations for the dwarf hydrangeas. Searched for other posts to get info. Looks like one of them would be a good alternative and I'll check with local nurseries to see if one or the other is a better choice in my area.

Keven, thanks for the heads-up on the Viola. I'll probably end up passing on them. I like the suggestion of the Solomon's Seal. I think the Heuchera thing is interesting. I've heard the same about sun versus shade. Kinda makes me want to experiment and plant some in the sun and some in the shade as an experiment and see what happens. :)

Thanks everybody! Gives me lots to think about.

Pay no attention to Ken and his concerns about the dogwood :-) Cornus alba ("foo-foo" variegated forms or not) are extremely hardy (zone 2) and therefore well above any borderline distinction for your zone. Again, most of these get to be big shrubs in time, although a periodic cutting back of older stems can keep size in check as well as intensifying winter stem color. You might want to check out one of the more compact forms - Ivory Halo ('Bailhalo') will stay smaller than 'Elegantissima' (syn. 'Argenteo-Marginata') and looks virtually the same.

Pity about the curve but nothing you can do about it. You could coppice the dogwood and have the red coloured stems in the winter as well as the variegated foliage in the summer. I don't know if that's common practise in the States but over here they are grown specifically for their winter colour.

I think you might want to rethink the woody perennial (#1), after a while they get to feel like, shag carpet, avocado green appliances, or leisure suits. Plus, they get get big enough to tower over the house.
Why not some Joe Pye or maybe Correopsys tripteris instead.

I would come out from under the eaves a bit. I made the mistake of planting closely and found that the plants tended to sprawl against the house instead of maintaining a nice bouquet/round form. The plants in the back also seemed to like the warmth and got taller than expected. I love the plants I used, but when not in bloom looked a bit weedy since the typical form was not there.

Without the space between the plants and the house, I also didnt think the bed, as a whole, looked as cohesive as it could have.

I know you want to use all the space as best as you possibly can, but you will also want the finished project to look organized and not overstuffed.

Just my two cents!
;o)

I think you might want to rethink the woody perennial (#1), after a while they get to feel like, shag carpet, avocado green appliances, or leisure suits. Plus, they get get big enough to tower over the house.

Are we talking about the same plant?? Cornus alba 'Argenteo-marginata' (syn. 'Elegantissima' aka variegated Tatarian dogwood)? It's hard to imagine an attractive and extremely versatile shrub like this would eventually feel like a shag carpet or whatever. And while it can get to a be a good size if left unpruned, it is certainly not going to tower over anything other than a dog house :-) Maybe you could explain what you mean by this rather unusual statement?

I love the idea of including permanent woody plants in what is mostly a perennial border - it provides at least some sort of structure and winter interest in an area that would otherwise be bare ground for virtually 6 months of the year. I'd like it even better if there were an evergreen presence.....I'd go so far as to consider a dwarf conifer or small/dwarf broadleaved evergreen shrub for inclusion.

gardengal - that's exactly what I was getting at - winter structure - that's why I suggested something evergreen or at least coppicing the dogwood for the red stems. Not to put too fine a point on it, perennial beds with no shrubs are a mess in winter. For the same reason I'd also make sure the whole thing was thickly underplanted with bulbs and spring bloomers like pulmonarias and primulas. We have such tiny gardens over here that we have to make the ground work every day of the year if possible so this kind of mixed border is the norm.

As to the "winter interest" thing, keep in mind where the author of this topic lives - Wisconsin - and what winters are often like in our part of the country (I'm in MN, right next door).

Right now, my garden is covered with 4 feet of snow. The only thing visible is the top of shrubs and it will remain this way into March when the massive melting gets underway. Everything else is buried including the ornamental grasses I grow. They got knocked down and buried with snow a couple of months ago.

Winter interest is not a big thing up here IMO unless you're talking about trees or shrubs. You just can't count on anything else being visible for several months of the year.

Kevin

I do agree with the underplanting idea. Mertensia virginica (Virginia Bluebells) would be another great choice. After blooming the plants go dormant and disappear by late spring - early summer plus they self sow at a pretty good clip. You just can't have too many of these.

I think the post above eludes to this but a vertical conifer would be a nice choice for winter interest...choices are limited with shade though (think Taxus).

Only other design suggestion I'd suggest is to make one repeat planting frome one side to the other.

I'm not familar with the dogwood you mentioned above but I really do like Ivory Halo. They can quickly attain 6' width in 3 years of planting a #5 plant.

As for Oakleaf Hydrangeas, they struggle around here. Snow Queen may get 8' in the PNW but it sure won't get that size around here! The largest Oakleafs I've seen (now I'm only one person) is a 5' one at an M&I bank in Menmonee Falls and another 5' one at Johnsons Nursery display garden (I was told this plant was 12 years old and was kept in check because of dieback). They are also one of the most expensive shrubs around here because of the failure rate. I'd still plant one though, lol. My point is that the dwarfs really are dwarfs around here.

Is there any protection from the west and north? If so consider adding a dwarf Japanese Maple.

Davidsans in IL offers a very nice selection with decent shipping rates (unless you want to drive to the middle of the state).

I do love dogwoods and agree with other posters that there should be one woody in the corner there for winter and structural interest. But dogwoods, even the variegated ones, do need winter pruning almost every year to remove diseased and older stems and usually an annual hand pruning in the summer to keep size in check. If you are willing to commit to this it would be a good choice as they are really lovely in the winter.

Here are some other ideas to add: False Cypress (Chamaecyparis sp.) a very slow growing conifer. Has a lovely three dimensional look. Some varieties are gold tipped as well which can add interest.

A singular Boxwood specimen - you can keep it perpetually shaped to a small size and into different shapes. However, if your neighbor likes to pile salted snow from the driveway into the bed these two may or may not work.

Also, Itea virginica or Fothergilla minor are also good choices with decent soil. They look very interesting in the winter and stay small but slowly form a thicket over time. But you can easily dig out or root prune out sections as needed.

I have several Dicentra and love them. Here in zone 7, they definitely die back mid-summer, but with other things around like hosta, ferns, heuchera, etc., it is okay.

I might rethink the Blue Mouse Ears hosta though. They are very small. I have some of the mouse varieties and they are cute, but they definitely won't take up all that space you have marked and they are so low they wouldn't stand out in that location. I think a medium hosta is more what you want there and there are lots to choose from.

Love your picture of your critic! Luckily, he isn't a digger, is he? My galloping gardeners have let me know in no uncertain terms that most of what I plant in the back is NOT to their liking-ha. :(

Can't wait to see what you do. Please post pics!

Unfortunately the bed needs to stay straight. The concrete and gravel belong to our neighbors. The line there is pretty much our property line.

If this is the case, and your property line is so close to the back of your house, why are you investing so much design and effort to landscape this bed? Not that it's not fun, but it sounds like the neighbors are going to benefit the most from a pretty bed there, and that you will hardly ever see it, unless you go in the neighbor's yard a lot.

Unless you want the shrubs to block the view from your windows out to the neighbors, woody plants that close to the house that grow any bigger than 3 x 4 feet or so, will become high maintenance. And winter-protect them every year? I've seen people who meticulously wrap their shrubs in burlap and rope every winter, or even use wooden frames over them. No thanks, I have better things to do than to baby shrubs that are subject to falling snow from roofs or huge piles of snow from plowing and shoveling, or just plain lotsa snow. Which incidentally, we have right now having gotten 3 1/2 feet of snow in January so far and more predicted on Wednesday! Ugh.

PS cute pic of your dog!

I landscape the north side of my house to the benefit of my neighbor's every day view - why not??

On the north face of my house I also have a Witch Hazel shrub - they handle shade well.

I agree with the suggestion for Itea Virginica - nice fall foliage color, and white spring blooms.

I also agree with the comments about the bleeding hearts. Nice in the spring and early summer, but not so much later in the season. Perhaps medium sized hostas will work in front of them.

I'd intermingle hostas throughout this planting bed for interest - the larger textured leaves will be a nice contrast.

Good luck and have fun. I'm sure your neighbors will appreciate the new view, as it will increase the value of their home, as well as your own.