My impression is the above pollination issue is for pollination of hybrid plums only, not for the pure asian plums. All the guys quoted in the above live too far north to grow non-hybrid asian plums so they have no experience with them are are very unlikely to have done any experiments with them. That said, I have had pollination problems on my asians so who knows maybe it does also apply to them in our climate.

I think the above statement also may apply to some varieties of hybrids only. I have found my hybrids to be much better at setting than my asians. Shiro and La Crescent both overset this year.

Scott

Our neighborhood is full of purple-leaved flowering but non-fruiting plum trees.

Are these trees sterile, or are the flowers male? Is there any chance they could serve to pollinate anything?

I lived in a neighborhood that was planted with purple-leafed plum trees that bloomed nicely in Spring. They were all intentionally sterile... except for the one in front of my house. I'm pretty sure it was not intentional, but I got a nice crop of purple plums every year, and it had alot to do with starting up my interest in fruit trees. The year I started raising Mason Bees, my plum tree overset so badly that I lost alot of the tree to broken branches. I didn't know anything about thinning back then.
Since the other trees along the same street had *no* fruit *ever*, it seems logical to assume the flowers were incapable of producing fruit.

I expect that the flowers are incapable of producing fruit. What I'm wondering is if they are capable of pollinating other plum trees. I see those as two different things. I guess I think of "producing" as the same as "bearing".

I suppose technically the sperm donor has a role in "producing" offspring.

I started with mason bees this past spring.

Ace,
I don't know if bloom times are compatible, but why not try some of the native beach plums(P.maritima) from your locality as potential pollenizers? (I saw them on Plum Island, when I was there a couple of years back)
You know they're well-adapted and fertile - it would merely be an question of whether bloom periods overlap and whether or not adequate pollenators are present.

lucky

Plum Island is for U.S. biomedical research. How did you get there.?
Beach plums can be rooted from cuttings in the springtime. Got to thin my wild cherry trees along the property line this winter. Black knot here and there. I'd like to try a disease free thicket of suckering beach plums. Blooms like crazy.

http://www.beachplum.cornell.edu/index.html

I rode the boat! 8>)

Really, though, I'm a veterinary pathologist. Every year, PIADC conducts a week-long session on foreign animal disease diagnosis for pathologists working at diagnostic laboratories or colleges of veterinary medicine. Gives us a chance to see those diseases we were taught about in veterinary school, first-hand, so that if they ever make their way back into the US, we'll recognize them before they become too widespread and cause a major outbreak.
Pretty scary, 'cause some of those diseases, like Foot & Mouth Disease, Rinderpest, Classical Swine Fever, etc., don't look much different from some of the more mundane diseases I see almost every day.
Made it kinda neat to read the books, "Plum Island" and 'Lab 257', 'cause I'd actually been there, and recognized many of the facilities/landmarks.
Long Island was quite pretty - they put us up in Greenport - but I was surprised to see how rampant bittersweet was there - almost like Japanese honeysuckle or (gasp!)kudzu, back home in AL.

I've been growing a few seedling beach plums, purchased from OIKOS Tree Crops, 8-10 years ago - and while I've got black knot on my Japanese hybrid and European plums, not more than 20-30 ft away, I've never seen black knot on the beach plums. I'm not saying they don't get it, but in my limited experience, it's not been a problem.
Black knot hasn't been a huge problem for my native Chickasaw plums(P.angustifolia), either; they do get it, but it's not usually rampant.

Scott'

Your Shiro and La Crescent set well I believe because they have wild parentage. You have said you have 5 asian varieties that haven't fruited. Do they bloom well? I sent an e-mail to the Beach Plum project Director, if I get a reply on the pollination of asia plums I'll post asap.

Ace, the remarks you quote at the top are also for hybrid plums with wild parentage (all the Fedco plums are hybrids since they are too far north to grow asians), so some hybrid plums set well and others apparently don't. I think it may have something to do with which native plums are used in the crosses (I'm not certain of that however). My asian plums flower nicely, they just don't set. Beyond a low pollination rate I also get a lot of drops which are late enough that they were obviously pollinated.

Scott

Scott

I have planted (last spring) a Santa Rosa and a Flavor King Pluot(these pollinate according to the grower, DWN). I am not getting any more Japanese plums till I see how those two produce fruit here on Long Island. I just ordered a Shiro s.d. because it sets loads of early plums.

Have you tried Prunus americana seedlings or graftings to pollinate your japanese plums? What Japanese varieties have been planted and not fruited in your orchard.

I lucked out hosting 10 honey bee hives next spring. A master beekeeper from Nafex lives in the next town over. I get a sample of the sweet stuff too.

Ace, I have not tried any americana plums as pollinators of my Japanese plums. I have also not seen a single report or study where anyone suggested such for pure Japanese plums, so I don't plan on trying it for them. I have have poor fruit set from Wickson, Santa Rosa, Satsuma, Howard Miracle, Elephant Heart, Weeping Santa Rosa, Flavor King, Flavor Supreme, all of which are five years old now. I have had a total of one fruit eaten from all of these trees. I almost had a couple more this summer but the squirrels got them.

Apparently some people do get good fruit set on Santa Rosa in our climate. Maybe the tree just needs to get older. I put it in in 2002.

Scott

Ace, I wouldn't base my Jap. plum decisions on the performance of those 2. This is why it's useful to deal with a nursery like Adams County. They can tell you what varieties are grown commercially in your area.
Santa Rosa and pluots are notorious for their spotty yields in the East. Shiro and Methely are 2 that bear monstrous crops. Thinning your Methelys will wear you out!

Home orchardists can afford crop failure but the first few selections really should be based a lot on reliability in my opinion. Tree ripened fruit off your own trees is always the best you've ever tasted whether they are the absolute best possible or not.

Mr. ScottSmith

I am the plumfan! If p. americana blooms at the same time as your salicina's, you are missing a huge opportunity for pollination. Find a decent pure americana and graft a branch or two into each of your salicinas. Then come back in two years and curse me for your branch breakages!

Genetically speaking, prunus wants to be wild, and all indications are that wild will always pollenize domestic, but never the inverse.

Plumfan, that is very interesting, I've never heard of that for pure Japanese plums (as you could surely tell from all my posts above). Maybe I will give it a try. I'm not sure why no nursery or other expert ever mentioned it before, but I would really like to get some Japanese plums. They are also major disease magnets for me, in particular the Elephant Heart and Howard MIracle. I already 90% topworked the Elephant Heart and will do the same with the HM this spring. Santa Rosa and Satsuma have been the (relatively) best as far as diseases go.

Scott

Howdy Scottsmith,

I am not sure just exactly what the molecular DNA constructs are for why salicina's do not like to pollinate themselves, but that is usaully the case. They NEED outside pollen. Their are a few salicina/americana hybrids that WILL be good pollinators, I think Toka, Kaga and South Dakota being a few of them. They may avoid disease for you too, if americanas do well in your area at all. I think Superior is considered a weak pollinizer as well, plus the fruits are supposed to be pretty good. Never tasted them myself, as my only graft of it expired after a year.

I have noticed that some of the myro/salicina hybrids are self fertile, which means they would also fertilize the finicky salicina thoroughbreds.

Compass is another good pollinator, if a bit on the tart side. Prunus besseyi being in its heritage. Never grown that one, but I bet it is tough tough tough.

I have some of these if you cannot get them locally. I generally rely on Santa Rosa, tho, as I really like its taste.

Wanna do some trading this winter?

Scott,

The article says a multi-grafted hybrid and salicina plum had 'outstanding yields' when pollinated by wild plum. This is the article quoted in the Fedco catalogue. Most pollination studies are in text books. I did find a mention in the New York fruit quarterly advising Myrobolan (native asian plum) rootstock to pollinate Ozark Premier plum.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rick Sawatzky Plum Pollination Article

Ace, that is not the conclusion of that article. It states:

Cultivars of Prunus salicina, which is commonly called Japanese or Asian plum, bloom
early and are good pollinizers with one another since they are not hybrids.

This was also my reading of the remarks in the Fedco catalog. There is some discussion of how a wild plum was a good pollinator of the multi-graft asian in the article, but there was only one asian plum on that graft so the only pollinators it would have (besides itself) were the other hybrids. So again the problem is pollination by hybrids as pollen parent, not asian as pollen parent.

I do in fact have a Myrobolan plum which has been blooming so I am not sure that is a great solution.

Clear as mud, eh?

Scott

Scott,

Adams County Nursery was disappointed in their preliminary tests of Zaiger interspecific hybrids. Asian type plums bred in sunny California are sometimes difficult to grow on the East coast. The Santa Rosa and a Flavor king I planted did not drop their leaves, they were frozen off. These vigorous tree stored alot of carbs so they should be ok. From ACN catalog pg 26; "There is still much to be learned about their adaption to eastern climates, but for those who venture into planting these exquisite fruits, their is great potential for reward."

The link below has excellent reading on Plum breeding and China apple industry.

Here is a link that might be useful: New York fruit Quarterly magazine