I received my first bands from Vintage a few weeks ago. I was pleased with my order. The size never bothered me because I have propagated myself and know these were healthy plants. I expect to have to prune & shape them as they grow, however, had I received any that had wounded rooting stock or were blackening, I would probably have asked for replacements. I have a question, though, based on some of the replies here. Why do you recommend potting in 1 gal or 3 gal pots instead of just putting them into the ground? Mine are gradually getting planted in their final "home" in my garden. I soak those not in the ground yet in a bucket of water every few days. To me, pots just seem risk the opportunity of getting dried out and killing the plant. Also, most of mine have set buds. Do you let those continue to flower or cut them off? I was thinking of letting each flower just once so that I can verify the plant, then cut the rest of the buds off.

How really kind of you to help Vintage when it's not the easiest thing for you to do. I don't know any of these roses but sometimes the unknowns can be the most exciting. I had no idea how much I'd love Lady Alice Stanley and Souvenir du President Carnot (both from Vintage), and they even do well in the heat here! I wish you great joy with your roses as they grow and bloom. Ingrid

I ordered a Pernetiana that I've been hoping would make it onto the Available list (and now it has) Angels Mateu. Also, I ordered Betty, the little HT from 1905. These are both small, so, hopefully, there will be a little room for them. I've been looking at the Pernetianas for a while now, but most of them were on the Custom Root list. Yesterday, the names of several appeared on the Available list (although I had pretty much made up my mind to ask for a custom root of one of them). To my delight, the one I most wanted, Angels Mateu, was available! (Actually, there were several that I would loved to have had, but my balcony would simply not accommodate them.) Then, Betty had always had my fancy from the catalog, and it sounds as though it might not be something that would be available elsewhere. I ordered these yesterday, and now this morning read Anita's post, which has such a great idea - this is a way I can help out even though I don't have any space to buy more roses. By the way, I have a feeling, from a few posts that I have read on the forum, that the Pernetianas may not be the easiest roses to grow. If anybody has advice about caring for them, I would be grateful. Thanks, Laura

Sammy, are you trying to make me feel better by dupe posting also? ;-) I'm starting to think there's another GW bug... So yeah, you know, I know we're supposed to keep off-roses topics away, but I think info on gel fire retardant is good information to pass along as we have many members not just in fire prone Calif. but also the plains and desert states like Idaho, Arizona, etc. We can just say it's so our roses don't burn up, right? 'Gel' is a polymer that is extremely hydrophilic and thus absorbs many, many times it's weight of water. In fire prevention, the idea came to a fireman in Florida who noticed that baby diapers don't burn in house fires (wouldn't you know ;-) In gardening, I think the polymer may be similar to the crystals we buy to retain moisture in potting soil. Have you ever taken a teaspoon of the stuff and put it in a quart of water? If not, do try it to see how it works and it makes a cool science demo for the kids. All the same idea but somewhat different formulation/excecution. Segue a few years later and it has been available for home/consumer use for the last few years. For professional use, the San Bernardino Co. FD has a 'gel task force' of trucks that are used to spray homes on the front line of the fire, thus enabling firemen to not be in harms way. Also, according to forum members, there was a Liberty Mutual truck in town to do the same to it's insurees, the only problem was they were not pre-approved to go into the mandatory evacuation area, so that's something that needs to be worked out with departments in the future. I know SBFD had good success with it a few years ago with the Big Bear fire, but it was a new idea at the time. Some of the air tankers can use it as well, problme is, it is expensive. Gel vs. foam. Gel is much more effective retarding fire because it is water-based where as the red foam retardant that you see planes drop is a chemical 'fluffed' with air. Don't ask me how it works. Back to the home consumer. There are two brands that I'm familiar with, Barricade & ThermoGel, I'm sure that there are more. Preferences by fire personnel in town vary. Thankfully we were given a Barricade home kit by a fire inspector friend who moved out of town. We have another friend who uses it who's a retired captain and now works fires as an information officer. Otoh, the guys at our local station who live in town tend to have ThermoGel and that is what the hardware store carries. What's the difference? I honestly haven't done enough research to satisfy my science self yet. HOWEVER, Barricade touts being canola oil based, whereas other companies evidently use 'mineral oil' bases. Again, what's the difference? I haven't had the time to confirm Barricade's claims, but here's the problem they claim with other brands: "Q: WHAT IS NPE-FREE BARRICADE II? A: NPE-Free Barricade ® II is the result of 10 years of research and testing to eliminate nonylphenol ethoxylates (NPEs) and petroleum distillate from the original Barricade formula. NPE-Free Barricade ® II has been approved for use by the US Forest Service in a wide range of firefighting functions including application by large air tankers, smaller Single Engine Air Tankers (SEATs), helicopters using buckets as well as firefighters on the ground using fire engines. Barricade ® II is the first and only liquid fire gel concentrate that has been approved for use by the Forest Service that does not contain toxic chemical additives known as NPEs and petroleum distillate oils. Environmental organizations have called upon the U.S. Forest Service to ban the use of other firefighting chemicals that contain NPEs. Barricade ® II was specifically developed for use by commercial and government entities where a large quantity of gel is used or there is frequent contact by firefighters. Q: What are NPEs and are they dangerous to animals or humans? A: NPEs (a.ka. Nonylphenol Ethoxylates) are surfactant components found in some other brands of fire gel products. Recent scientific studies have shown that NPEs have negative effects on the reproductive systems of animals and humans in extremely low doses which can cause birth defects in future generations. Currently, the US Forest Service testing program that approves chemicals for use in wildland firefighting does not examine the potential effects on future generations...it only looks at the short-term. Environmental groups have requested that the Forest Service cease using and rescind approvals on fire chemicals that contain NPEs. Barricade is proud to offer the ONLY liquid fire gel that is completely free of toxic NPEs and petroleum distillates. Barricade is the only fire chemical of any kind to be awarded the prestigious "Champion" award from our nation's EPA." Ok, so I'm a microbiologist and chemist, I'm not. Is this a warning where if you give 3 trillion times the dose to a rat it keels over dead, I dunno. According to Wikipedia, "Toxicity concerns Since these compounds are widely produced over the world and are designed to flush down the sink, concerns about their safety has increased in the past years. Several research programs have shown that these surfactants have a mild to medium estrogenic function. [1] Consequently, this class of detergents has been effectively banned for commercial "down-the-drain" applications in Europe, and these compounds are not found in laundry detergents in the USA." I don't have access to the referenced article. I did try to find the MSDS for a couple of other products and so far, haven't found comments about this chemical. So anyway, point being, we are all somewhat new to this type of product, I am doing as much research as I can. Performance being equal, I guess we'll continue with what we have pending more study/information on my part. Price point. Well, a 4 gallon home kit of Barricade with sprayer attachments for your hose run around $326. I assume other brands are around the same. Shelf-life. That's a conundrum. Guaranteed shelf-life of Barricade is 3 years. I know ours was older. All mfgrs recommend shaking the gallons every so often so that it doesn't settle which will cause nozzle clogging because the gel won't siphon out. It may be over time that the warrantied shelf-life increases as companies keep their stock longer or come up with more stable formulations, but bear in mind that's also a liability issue for the companies. Use and clean up. Use, well, wear a rain coat and make sure you've read the instructions before the call to evacuate. ;-) The stuff is mess if it's windy, which it usually is for fires like these. Also, coverage depends on your water pressure. Our clean up was pretty easy because as I said, we should have shaken it (but didn't know) so we didn't get it on thick enough. 'Stickiness' depends on surface and they recommend that you spray water on it to rehdrate and then come back with a stream of water. Ours came off of old paint fine, also windows. Faux shutters required more water. We also sprayed the attic vents. Plants. Barricade is safe for plants, you can read up on other brands if you decide to buy. Our only no-joy was that we couldn't get the crowns of our pines, the bigger ones are about 80' or so with the 3/4" home hose setup. All in all, moving forward, we plan to replenish what we used. If you live in a high fire danger area, it's cheap insurance.