Pictures.
Where did the plant come from?
Roundup damage is more likely.

vigorous new growth, red and bent/reflexed leaves, not all over the plant just on one or two areas?
mature leaves with reddish tinge instead of fully green?
elongated leaves that look like large sepals?

Sounds more like "springtime" to me.

I truly hope so, and thought so until I saw pics on a website that match my plants... hopefully it's the website that is wrong. I will try to post pics tomorrow but I seem to have forgotten how, will look it up.

Need pics. What you described sounds more like normal and vigorous spring growth. However, without pics, impossible to tell.

MANY ROSES, and the Teas in particular, have rich mahogany-red (rather than greed) new growth.

I have one HT that does this as noticeably as a Tea, only on a beefier plant. It's beautiful.

Jeri

I went into a panic many years ago when I thought I had it, then found a post about RoundUp drift. Realized I had sprayed RoundUp around that garden. I didn't know it would harm the roses since I didn't spray it on them and thought I was very careful. It can look almost exactly like RRD.

MANY ROSES, and the Teas in particular, have rich mahogany-red (rather than greed) new growth.

Many years ago while I was watching a nature program on PBS I learned that a very wide variety of the plants of the tropics have this feature. It's a common enough occurrence for at least some tropical biologists to have hypothesized about what it is the plants are doing by constantly producing these dark red pigments in their newest stem & leaf tissue, and how they are benefitting by doing so. I don't recall that at the time of the broadcast there was a clear answer to those questions, or whether any of the hypotheses had been appropriately tested. (I do remember that one hypothesis was that those dark red pigments were protecting the young developing plant tissues from excessive tropical sunlight, thus probably protecting that newest growth from acquiring harmful mutations via excessive solar radiation.)

Given that the Teas were bred from semi-tropical rose species, I'm not surprised to learn this feature shows up in them as well.

I've also noted it in at least some of the dark crimson, orange, & orange blend hybrid teas, particularly those that also have dark green shiny leaves. Mr. Lincoln, Fragrant Cloud, & Whisky Mac all come immediately to mind.

Does Peace have this feature as well?

(I haven't visited the RRD website recently, but if I recall correctly, it isn't simply the presence of dark red new growth, but rather the sheer prevalence of it, especially if it occurs along with other particular symptoms, such as hyper-thorniness for that particular variety, a "rubbery" quality to the new stems (because they don't ever really harden off correctly), the frequent appearances of "witches broom" growth (although there are other reasons that a plant can produce a witches broom, so that by itself also isn't necessarily a guarantee of RRD infection), etc.

Unfortunately diagnosing a virus infection in a plant via outwardly displayed symptoms often is not simple.

I'm no pathologist, but even so I'm looking forwards to seeing pictures of the suspected infection. It will be much easier to say "yes" or "no" (or "probably yes" or "probably no"), once those pics. are posted.

I identify insect pests for a livelihood, and at my job I've had a small amount of pathology training. I learned at that training that herbicide damage (most definitely including Round-Up damage) can look amazingly similar to some virus infections.

I live in Southern California as you do, and I've never heard of RRD in our area.

I have had Round-Up spray drift onto rose bushes resulting in weird growth that somewhat resembles rose rosette disease.

As others have said, new spring growth could also explain what you're seeing.

YOU are not allowed to "panic" until you can provide some pictures of this. I also have been growing roses for several decades in Southern California (and yes I do also buy them mail order from all over) without ever seeing a single case of RRD here. So, relax.

Please?

Kathy

I think we all panic some when we see strange things going on in our garden - especially to our beloved and prized roses. Seeing pictures of RRD makes our skin crawl and we immediately think of the worse.

Just the other day I freaked out because I noticed one of my roses has hyperthorniness. (Is that a word? lol) Anyway, I have sprayed round-up in this area, so I wonder if that is a symptom of round-up damage?

Have you looked at Ann's e-book? I wouldn't do anything right now but observe. Is this a new rose? Did it do this last year? Does it have witches broom? So many questions - don't jump to any conclusions just yet. :)

Here is the link to Anntn6b's RRD eBook. Start there.

We also need to know if RoundUp or any other herbicide has been sprayed in the area recently. Herbicides can drift over 30 feet, and the products can cause abnormal growth on the plant that looks like RRD, but isn't.

Thank you for all your advice and encouragement. This is my second season growing roses, so almost all the plants are in their first year with me. I don't know about their history other than I got them from various online vendors, and a few from local nurseries.
I will post pics when I am able, if not soon then I will start a new thread when I find my camera. However, the e-book linked above has pictures thar in my opinion match what I am seeing. Specifically,

ch 2- figure 1, fig 11

Ch 11a - near the bottom second pic of Charles Austin

Ch. 11b
first 3 pictures, and pic 7 "the asymmetry of growth on this bush stands out. There's no logical reason for the cane at right to be loaded with new growth, when the canes at left lack new growth"

pic 16 second set of leaves with red veining

pic 20 also found in my yard

Hopefully this is all just spring growth that will even out, and/or herbicide damage from before the plants came to live at my house. I will post as soon as I get pics, but unfortunately I can't find the camera I was taking pictures with a couple of days ago.

Because of where I live, I've been VERY closely following RRD & its spread for several years. Am I correct that, until Growing2010 posted this thread, there has NEVER been any indication whatsoever that the malady has infected roses along the Pacific coast?

There's just something about this "panic" that, personally speaking, I'm a bit uncomfortable with/suspect of. Growing2010, find that camera you were taking pictures with a couple of days ago, borrow a camera, or buy a new one -- whatever it takes to post photographic evidence of the plague you're all hyped-up about, OK? Thanks in advance . . . we'll all appreciate your effort.

Borrowing a camera is a good idea... I also feel confident that California is not a RRD breeding ground, but of course I've bought roses from Texas, Oregon, and South Carolina that I know of. Anyway, I will work on those pictures soon.

Growing If you don't know how to post pics, feel free to send them to one of us.
But, honestly, without seeing something, we cannot be helpful.
RRD is unlikely (nothing is impossible)in most of CA -- but ALL of us in CA are concerned, if it is possible.

Send me pix.
I'll post them for you.

Jeri Jennings
Ed., HRG "Rose Letter"

Growing2010, Accept Jeri's kind offer sooner than later. This is serious stuff, and we take it very seriously. No joking matter, this . . .

Growing2010 has said he/she lives in the San Gabriel Valley. Are there any experienced rosers near there that could go take a look/see and a few pics? I would if I were close by.

Kathy (in south OC).

I will likely be removing at least one more rose which has RRD this spring. This will be the 5th. I removed the "odd" canes last summer. I know if they return, its RRD.

Typical RRD has these pin-like prickles instead of thorns.

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Baldo Villegas has found RRD on some roses in the high country on the road from Sacramento to Lake Tahoe. One of the earliest reports of Witches Broom of Roses was from roses near Carrville. We don't know the elevation at which that was found. It's been seen south of Salt Lake City in a gone wild rose (about five years ago.)
There is someone in Oregon who is watching for it in the R. multiflora gone wild in the John Day wildlife management area, but he has NOT seen it there. It hasn't been seen, to my knowledge, in multiflora used out there as ecofriendly auto barriers along interstates.

A strange report came from China in the ag literature recently. A rose garden had a massive breakout of witches broom with a lot of symptoms like RRD. That rose garden is very close to a Pawlonia tree that had witches' broom of Pawlonia and when they tested the virus in the roses, they found it was the virus identified as causing witches' broom of Pawlonia.

There are also reports of similar symptoms in greehouse roses in Poland, but those have been reported to be caused by phytoplasmas.

Oh man Ann -- If the Pawlonia trees spread it, I can understand why it's so hard to control.
Yes, I know about Baldo's finds (and they are scary). There's been nothing in SoCal, or in more settled areas, but . . .
So, yes, I do take this seriously, and I hope Growing will provide photos.

Jeri

Jeri,
The Pawlonia is a different disease.
Witches' Broom refers a single symptom: to the tendency of an infected plant to make multiple breaks where (genetically) a single one should emerge.
Witches' Broom can be caused by Phytoplasmas, by some fungi or bacteria, and by the probable viruses that have RRD as a small and specialized niche.
Pigeonpeas have a disease called Sterility virus (not a good thing, because they are a major food resource, except if they don't set peas), peaches have a like problem in Mexico, Blackcurrents in Europe have a similar disease called Blackcurrent Reversion Associated Virus (it was only proved to be a virus this decade after having been studied for about a century), Cherry's have something like, and there is a date disease and something on Hackberries makes witches' brooms. Also Wheat Streak Mosaic is mite transmitted.

Most of these diseases don't readily jump from one genus to another. Thank goodness for that. But as this globe tends to monocultural crops, what might be an isolated problem can become major.

The American Phytopathological Society has articles on line and I don't recommend going to their site because it is really depressing to see how many plants have really bad diseases out there. (The poinsettia story is kind of interesting in that several diseases have made poinsettias more desirable as pot plants because of variations they've imposed on what was a not so showy plant.) (Likewise the annual dried flower called Cockscomb.)

I'm with hoov (until we see pics). Spring time always has funny growth. Most of my roses show red as new growth and a few have reddish tints and veining on mature foliage. I would wait a bit.

I had 2 roses with RRD. There was no mistaking that for new growth as weird as it sometimes can appear.

I think "growing" might want to compare this new growth (which is typical Tea Rose new growth) with Harryshoe's excellent photos.
{{gwi:232152}}

Note that Mme. Joseph Schwartz and Duchesse de Brabant seem to me to be even a richer mahogany color.

Jeri

Jeri -- good idea. I just went out and took a bunch of photos of normal spring growth for Growing2010. Growing -- please jump over to the album linked below -- all of these are shots of normal spring growth on roses -- and much of it is red and viciously thorny. I am sure none of it is RRD however. RRD has an element of deformation to it that is usually quite severe.

Click on the first picture and then just scroll through them.

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: Photo album of normal spring growth, taken today

Hello and thank you very much for your offers to help and educate a semi-newbie. Kathy, I looked at your pictures, and I definitely see the same growth on a lot of my plants. However, if you read the e-book mentioned above, you can see why I became confused, as several of the pictures closely resemble yours. Especially when you see a lot of leaves/stems forming from the same spot it gets confusing. So I will relax about the new growth. I haven't been able to find my camera, but I will try again tomorrow when I have some time.
However, putting aside all the red new growth, there is still one plant that originally worried me and still does. The growth is not red, it is like a thicker stem growing straight up from a thinner stem, and long sepal-like leaflets surrounding the point of origin as well as forming higher up. This is occurring twice on the plant, and it is pictures of this that I cannot find right now. I will take pictures with my phone tomorrow morning, and take you up on your kind offers to examine them.

Kathy - thanks for these photos! Some of them exhibit growth that is very similar to some I have seen and worried about on my own roses. It certainly can be very hard to tell! Now, in retrospect, I realize I may have taken the shovel to a few plants too quickly (although I do live in an area where RRD is all over the place). This is so difficult. I'm kind of dreading what I'll find this spring!

I remember hearing Ray Reddell, years ago, talk about the day a lady called in a panic.
She said the new growth on her newly-planted roses was "abnormal." It was all RED.
He was busy. Thinking about other things.
Absently, he told her that if it looked wrong, she should cut it all off, and see what the roses came out with at a second try.
As soon as he hung up the phone,he realized what she had been describing. But it was too late! He had no way to call her back.

Jeri

Witches' Broom can be caused by Phytoplasmas, by some fungi or bacteria, and by the probable viruses that have RRD as a small and specialized niche.

IIRC, in some plants they can be caused simply by nutrient deficiencies. (IIRC it's not an uncommon symptom of zinc deficiency.) In some plants they occur simply via genetic mutation. There are Japanese Maple cultivars that are little more than witches brooms, and they're stable, with no other disease indications at all. IIRC, the Dwarf Alberta Spruce that is so popular at Christmas is little more than a witches broom mutation of White Spruce. I would be reluctant to make a disease diagnosis only because a plant displayed a witches broom.

I have several roses that have a really fat branch with blackish thorns?

Fat branches are ok, they are just made by really healthy roots.
BUT if the cane appears to be three canes stuck together edge to edge so that it looks a bit like flattened Christmas candy, then the problem is fasciation. I've had fasciation on a rose cane that was only that. All three stems lived through year one. The second year, only one of them lived.
One of the guys who works at Missouri Botanical Garden has a collection of Fasciated stems from many, many different genera.

Maybe this year some current research will produce more about the basics of RRD.

(Re the Zinc deficiency, I live very close to a major Lead Zinc district and lots of Zn in the soil doesn't slow down RRD at all.)(One ore body is four tenths of a mile from us and half a mile down.)

RRD is so much more, beyond witches' brooms.

Ann, thanks for the info. I thought it was just really healthy roses..but the thorns are so dark..and most of the branches are way smaller then this thick mama's that sprouted up! I know what Fascination is. Someone had in here last year and posted photos. Very cool.

lots of Zn in the soil doesn't slow down RRD at all.)(One ore body is four tenths of a mile from us and half a mile down.)

RRD is so much more, beyond witches' brooms.

I have no personal experience with RRD, but I completely agree with you. Virus diseases are often that way. That's why one symptom all by itself is cause for question, and also for careful examination for more symptoms.