I have nine roses, but I've ordered 19 and I'm getting one from mom. I lost five hybrid teas during the awful winter we had last year.

Next year, I'm planning to put OGRs in front of the lilac hedge and some rugosas in another area. Probably about 15-20 next year and then I'll be out of room :)

300, 100, 300. Re: shovelling, if it's non-fragrant but doesn't rust, it stays. If it's really fragrant but rusty, it stays. If it's really fragrant and doesn't rust, it's my BFF. Eventually the non-fragrants will have to go, but not yet.

I have around a hundred roses. I have auditioned about a hundred more, half of which have gone on to other people's gardens, and half of which have either died or been discarded. I'm actually pretty ruthless. I grow roses for beauty and pleasure, so if the roses do not oblige, I don't keep them. The most I have ever had at one time was 150. I decided to back off a bit because I'm also growing fruits and berries, vegetables, and herbs as well as roses, bulbs, and perennials. I can only maintain so much.

I've lost half a dozen to gophers, which didn't used to be a problem for me. More recent plantings go into in-ground cages to protect at least the core of the roots.

Rosefolly

I have absolutely no idea! My husband would say 'too many' and I say 'not enough, yet'....! I have to estimate (since its winter) but I guess there are well over 375 by now and I have 25 more on order for spring. (5 of those don't count, because I'm planting them at my son's house).
If miniature roses count, then I have closer to 400 roses.
(I recall a thread years ago that stated that minis don't count, and neither do multiples of the same rose, etc.).

I rarely shovel-prune. Like Melissa, I usually dig the underperformers up and try them somewhere else. I have only gotten rid of maybe 5 roses to shovel-pruning, but only after I gave them plenty of chances to redeem themselves. I really can't give them away because no one
I know wants to try their luck at growing roses in zone 4.
They see all the work I put into mine and are exhausted just watching me...plus they don't see the merit of all that work for less than 4 months of roses. People tell me
that its easier to just come over and enjoy mine! LOL

As to how many I would ultimately like to have....in my DREAMS I have acres of land with perfect soil and full sunlight and my garden rivals Roseraie du Val-de-Marne a l'Hay-les-roses....but the reality is I am running out of room. I think I can still squeeze in a few more if I have my DH take down some more trees and move some boulders....
I am always thinking. I know I have enough already and my back tells me its time to stop, but I am constantly tempted and definitely addicted.

Celeste

Hoov, I'm right there with you. Fragrant with bs stays. Not very fragrant with no bs... sometimes stays depending on growth habit. All together I probably have 100 roses in the garden right now. Shovel pruned probably 40. Ultimate goal? Probably staying around 100 because to expand I would have to block some nice views OR clear out a bunch of trees and brush, neither of which will happen soon. Maintaining isn't much of an issue. I like my garden time. Plus I've got a lazy garden!

I have around 600 or so..mostly once blooming but that is a long season here. I occasionally give one away-very occasionally but usually they go into the 'live or die corner' which got a big hit a couple of years back from the guy who came to level a new bed with big equipment(enormous pile of top soil left from building) and in an effort to take out a dead tree as a special treat for me took out several under-performers. Oh well.... I am always looking to add to my Gallica and Moss collection.

patricia

WOW, I couldn't imagine having 200 to 400 roses on my little .22 acre plot! I would have to tear up every inch of grass, patio, and driveway to fit all of those! I will have 27-ish when my spring orders arrive. I want to order more, but until we pay off my student loan my DH is less than thrilled to drop the cash for roses and plants. I have SP'd 2 roses, one of them was a grafted root that died back to the roots and came out as DR. huey. Our house was a foreclosure and the previous owners planted it, and it died back before we even moved in. My husband is so "money savey" that I think he would be upset if I SP any more (can't waste money! lol), so I have been very careful on what I order. When we finish our patio area outside, maybe add a pergola, I will want to ad probably another dozen roses, so 40 will be my end goal. It's great reading all of these answers, thanks for asking the question!

Nat

1) How many roses do you currently have?
Twelve currently and 6 more on the way this spring.

2. How many have you discarded by shovel pruning or giving them away? I shovel pruned 3 Therese Bugnets several years ago because they were always coated w/ a lot of powdery mildew.

3) Ultimately, how many roses would you like to have in your garden?
I'd like to have many more roses than I have room or time for. I'm always coming across ones that are tempting, either in catalogs or ones that people post pictures of here.

1. I have about 30 roses.
2. I have removed about 8
3. I want to get just 2 or 3 more. -Dainty Bess, & Molineux

I have seventeen roses in my new garden. Four of these, are still in their pots waiting to be planted.
I have got another thirteen coming next week.
There are only two which haven't made it into the garden.
One was Souvenir d'un Ami which was dead on arrival.
The other is a manky looking semi-double yellow rose, which was sent in error. It should have been Mrs B. R. Cant.
Another rose sent in error, was one with pale apricot, small flowers in sprays with a nice perfume. I have no idea what it is, (it was supposed to be Felicia), but that one, I have planted.
Daisy

1. I now have only 3 roses: Mlle. Jeanne Philippe (Tea), Betty (early HT), and Cecile Brunner (Polyantha). I love them all.
2. I gave away 5 roses late last year: Nigrette (early HT), Oklahoma (HT), Devoniensis (Tea), Mme. Antoine Mari (Tea), and Angels Mateu (early HT). There was nothing wrong with any of them, they were lovely. But most of them were clearly going to be happier in a better exposure, and I had realized that I could not just go on repotting them all.
3. Well, of course, I don't plan to get any more, given the above. But if I lived in a house and had a yard, it would be a different story!

I have around 100 now. At the current garden at the peak it was around 150. I decided to scale down some time ago. My yard is small, so place is very valuable. Only the best fragrant and healthy stay. I keep several divas that I spray, but the rest should be healthy w/o spraying, otherwise they go. At least half of my roses are once-blooming because of this and every year more divas leave my house and more healthy once-bloomers come. I grow roses for 30+ years, and love to different types of roses comes in phases( HTs phase, Moss phase, HP phase, Austins, species ,gallicas,etc). Due to space limitations I can't afford to keep more, so every year 10-12 have to go to give space to new (for me) roses. I love to try. It means I had experience with several hundred roses,that stayed with me for several years and then left. I try to find the good ones homes, but it is not always possible.
Olga

I'd guess about 450 at present.
Probably 300 have been here and are gone either due to vole damage, Rose Rosette, RMV Decline to nothingness, or unhappiness with rootstock (Dr. Huey hates my soil even when it's emended. I'd probably find over a hundred bought on Dr. Huey and/or with RMV issues back at the beginnings of our learning curve.)
I'd like to have ten thousand. We have enough land and we have water and great soil on our island in the river. But with Rose Rosette, I can't grow roses in any density and I'll never have the broad rose arches that I have wanted for many years.
Instead I'm looking to companion plantings to bring specific beneficial insects into the garden. I'm also looking at some structures to increase windflow and to add some seasonal color.

1) How many roses do you currently have? Somewhere around 60-65.

2) How many have you discarded by shovel pruning or giving them away? I can only remember 2 or 3, usually because they were underperforming for me even though they had been in the garden for several years. I did deliberately dig up and throw away one that kept getting strange growth on it--kinda like the pics of chili thrips, but since it is too cold here for chili thrips, I don't know what that was. We'll see this spring whether the strange growth problem occurs anywhere else in my garden. By late winter this year, I will have dug up Blanc Double de Coubert and hopefully have given it to someone, but it is going one way or another--not that I don't like rugosas, cuz I do, but it failed to be the attention-getting centerpiece in one of my beds like it was supposed to be. Wish I had any place left to transplant it to, but I don't.

3) Ultimately, how many roses would you like to have in your garden? I think my current number is good--maybe just a bit more than I can comfortably handle sometimes, but OK for now. In a few more years, however, I may have to cut back a bit.

Kate

I have close to 100. I have killed maybe 10 or so.

How many would I like to have? Only time will tell. We live on acreage, very sunny, and I have only finished about 1/2 of the landscaping around my home, so I'm hoping to acquire lots more! :)

Last count, about 400+. How many gone..close to 100, relocated to other homes where possible, mostly Austins and HTs. As to how many we'd like to have..space is not a limitation. Sadly age is becoming that limitation. I think we'll stop when the last of the potted roses are planted in the new garden out back and I've collected the last China I can find.

I only have about a dozen. This is the second full year in our new home. As much as I would like to have more..being in the PNW and pine trees on my and neighbors yards makes it too shady for a huge amount Still, I have plans for at least about 25 more.

1. About 150 in the ground. About 50 in pots, many of them are bands from Vintage and Rogue Valley that I am growing out. I plan to get the pot ghetto, except for the tiny bands, in the ground between now and the end of March. Note the words "I plan to".....

2. I cant bring myself to shovel prune, tho there is this one pink lackluster unknown grafted rose that I bought on sale as Rainbow Sorbet and it is nothing of the sort. I will probably pot it up and give it to a friend.

3. I am on 17 acres so have plenty of room, raise horses so have plenty of compost. I really should stop buying, and am ashamed to admit how many I have ordered, but "had" to have them.....and I will find a place for them all. I am hoping with this year's order I will slow down a bit! But with so many rose companies closing, ordering from places like Vintage and Rogue Valley, those older roses you cant get anywhere - when they come available I have to get them. What can I do??

1. How many roses do you currently have? 180 varieties and 7 on order.

2. How many have you discarded by shovel pruning or giving them away? Over 16 years in this garden, 57, gave away 2, discarded the rest.

3. Ultimately, how many roses would you like to have in your garden? Perhaps 150, depending on how the keepers develop.

My garden is only half an acre and I want other things besides roses. Vegs, soft fruit, flowering trees and shrubs. Even a lawn! Too many of the roses were gifts I couldn't refuse, many of them found roses that should never have been found. A few more sick roses will have to go this year.

Well I have just finnished reading all your interesting posts. Great subject, Ingrid !
I have about 850 varieties of roses.
I had to move Fench Lace and it had never done well, but then I forgot to replant it. I will get another of the same and try again.
I am 46 and I don't plan to stop collecting roses !

I'll have about 80 by this Spring. I've shovel-pruned about 10, most were not good specimens to begin with.

For now, I could squeeze in about 10 more without removing other-loved plants. I have 1/4 acre with large trees so shade and dryness is a problem. When my sons get a little older I may start a new garden in the center of the backyard, then will have no lawn to speak of other than pathways.

I have almost 100 roses now. I've only shovel pruned a few over the years.

I have about as many roses as I might like, but still add new roses on occasion.

1. I'm guessing 500 - 600 plus or minus, not cultivars but plants (I like multiples.)
2. About 175, tho that includes killed, virused and propagated roses given away. I don't include a large pot ghetto of roses that will never go in the ground and that need to die.
3. No more in absolute numbers. I only want to improve the quality, disease resistance and repeat of the cultivars I have....except I have a weakness for species roses and will plant any that interest me. I will continue to swap out roses I've come to dislike, that are bad clones or that I'm tired of.

A little over 200, if the HMF count is anywhere close to accurate. Given away/sp'd around 10, lost another 10 or so along the way. Probably will SP more as my tastes change and some roses prove themselves heathier than others, or if bushes don't make decent landscape shrubs. No prima donnas in my yard (but Bella Donna is a keeper!) Keep thinking I've got plenty, and then I see something else that I simply MUST have. Then there are the seedlings....

I have about 100. I have only sp'd two, though 3 or 4 others are tempting me. Most of the ones that are gone succumbed. Wrong rose and wrong rootstock are the reasons for those. I hate to sp and usually don't have to because the worst ones die off here in central Florida and due to my conditions.

As my knowledge and experience has increased (Thanks! Rose Buds!) I am moving away from keeping most in pots, (own roots combined with toxic rubble land fill and mostly shade, though it is high and shifting.) And moving to grafted on fort and in the ground. It is a job of work to find antiques that are fort grafted. Every HT I bought has been dreck,

Realistically here, in this canyon of pines, I envision 30 to 50 really great fort grafted roses that work well here. Or I could just plant a forest of Louis Phillipes.

Oh, and I shall be grafting, too. I have a dozen forts rooting and more will be worked up in the next week or so. Rootstock suckers can be good.

Veronica

Thank you all lots for you wonderful responses. I think everyone enjoyed finding out about everyone else. I know I did!

Ingrid

jumping in a little late with my 27 roses and 9 more to plant. I would like to have at least one of every class (although I can do without HPs and teas) but I really want to boost my collection of rose species.
Got rid of 6, mainly HTs (Queen Elizabeth, Happy Returns, Jenny's rose, Blue Moon, Laura Ford, Cider Cup)
Always loved them but have recently returned to the rose fold with a vengeance.

IÂve been growing roses for about 22 yrs. When the last of my roses arrive this spring IÂll have 55, almost half of which are new.

I know almost no one with my taste in roses so IÂve given away only a couple to my neighbor. IÂm a wimp so IÂm not good at the culling process, but IÂm getting better. To date, IÂve spÂed about a dozen over the years

My garden is in transition. I donÂt seem to have as much time and inclination to put up with some of the unpleasantness of gardening in the mid-atlantic region. So IÂve upped priorities such as thorniness and disease to the same level as bloom. With that in mind, unless I really, really like it, itÂs gone; replaced with various OGRÂs and a few bullet proof moderns.

So, let me say thankÂs to those roughly in my zone because thatÂs where I got most of my info.

55 is more than I need to have. But IÂm still in the process of culling some of the high-maintenance/low performers. IÂve got 4 on the chopping block for late spring and I suspect I may loose a couple to winter kill. I think ultimately IÂm shooting for 40 which means IÂll probably end up with almost 55.

I have about 40 roses. I have not bought any since 2006.

I used to have 55 and have removed about 20. Some of my suckers have become roses if you are wondering about the math.

Twenty is the goal. Midge, black spot and beetles have taken the joy out of rose growing.

I have about 90 roses now. At the peak I had about 150. I had to scale back because of the maintenance of the roses and garden in general got too be too much for me to handle. I have shovel-pruned, killed, or given away over 100 roses at least. I am particular about health (I don't spray) and fragrance. My climate is difficult for no-spray roses and I tried to grow everything at one time or another to see for myself what works. I think I am done downsizing for now and expect to keep about 85-95 roses with a turnover of about 5 or so a year (new & shovel-pruning).

1. How many roses do you currently have? I guess around 450 - 500 varieties, only things I am propagating more of daily would be minis.

2. How many have you discarded by shovel pruning or giving them away? I usually average about a dozen a year to SP, no one to give roses to in my area, unless I make the drive.

3. Ultimately, how many roses would you like to have in your garden? I am guessing 1200-1500 ? All on a slightly larger than city sized plot. Crazy, I know.

Great post Ingrid, I enjoyed reading everyone's answers!

Currently I have around 60 roses, only one third of them in the ground and the rest are 1 or 2 years old own root roses still growing in containers.

I haven't discarded or given away one rose yet, but I assume that from all the new ones that I have growing in pots some will not do too well in my garden and others I may not like as much as I thought. It is always tricky if you buy a rose of which you have just seen pictures of and sometimes not even that, so most likely I will have roses to give away in the future.

In my dreams I would love to have hundreds of roses, but realistically I can't take care of them and our lot is also not that big. I know from my previous garden that 50 more mature roses is plenty enough to handle for me so that is the number of roses I guess I have to be content with.

Christina

This is my third and final garden I hope. It's so hard to move and leave the roses behind.
Currentlty I have 26 roses in this 2 year old garden. Some HT's, Flori's, mad gallica's, teas, damasks and mosses. This spring I should be receiving 24 more all are either OGR's or new Barden roses which I just love. My goal is probably 60-70.
SPing??? oh no...i just couldn't. I adopted an almost dead Angel Face in a body-bag last summer. Just looked at it yesterday and looks like it;s going to make it. I've probably killed off maybe a dozen over the last 25 years.
I have learned so much from all the experienced gardeners on this forum and thank you all deeply. Your help is appreciated.
Jeannie

What a great thread. I have thouroughly enjoyed all the answers. Thank you all.

I once had a 3 acre garden with 235 roses. Alot of work but oh it was so pretty.

Now I live on a smaller lot in town, previous garden was in the country. I have about 100 roses jammed into my little space. There are 7 new babies arriving in April.

I had to SP a few roses that were growing along my fence. There used to be a dog in the neighborhood who thought my fence was his peeing post! I lost a couple of roses to that.

Most of the roses I have purchased since moving here 3 years ago are replacements of ones I had before and simply could not garden without! ;)

If I could have a garden like Pam's I would do it. If I ever move again you can be sure I will grow as many roses as possible. There is nothing much finer than picking a fresh bouquet and sinking your nose into that fragrance, especially the first ones of the season after a long, cold winter. As long as there is a patch of grass that needs mowed I will be digging in my little yard and planting more roses.

Valerie

Great thread, Ingrid! Just the kind of information I love to have and something I think about frequently with our garden. We currently have about 345 roses, about 70 in the pot ghetto. I've sp'd perhaps 10 roses, given away about the same number. If I have a ghetto rose that a visitor really desires, it becomes an immediate gift. My passion is for saving roses that are rare or vulnerable, so if you want my attention that's how to get it. On our shy quarter-acre, there's really no room for all these roses. Everybody gets at least a year in the ground and those that appear to have died are allowed to keep their spots longer than sensible just in case they gather sufficient strength below-ground to make a comeback. Ideally, I'd have more land and an ever-growing number of roses, but for our property and our labor, we'll be gifting anything that isn't flourishing here. Do you believe me? Oh, not for a minute! I'm always looking for ways to increase the rose borders and beds. If we didn't have the poodles with their need to chase balls, I'd have this place buried in roses and trails, no lawn ever again. Don't tell Marji I said so!

1. 43 bands, 1 grafted
2. Gave away all grafted (30-40) for own root experiment, now only buy grafted if unavailable ownroot, trying to find Fortuniana rootstock vs. Dr. Huey to compare
3. My goal was 50 total, but now I think if I could find 50-75 varieties I like and then repeat them throughout the lot I will be happy.

I gave away all the grafted ones for 2 reasons... to avoid rootstock suckers and also to find out how own roots do versus grafted. Many of the grafted varieties went to my neighbor, so I will be able to keep track since am not planning to move for at least 20 or so years.
I have 8 bands on order and probably will order a few more this year, then take a break. All of my bands are in pots until the yard gets landscaped.
This is turning out to be a huge project for me, as well as challenging and fun. It will all be worth it in the end when the whole acre is covered in roses - miniatures, OGR's, moderns, climbers... I am guessing the final collection will be in the hundreds (from original plan of 50!)

1. About 750 different varieties
2. I have SP/discarded only one: The Fairy..never bloomed
3. I think I'm at a good number for me...unless I am able to get the adjacent property.

Robert

I have 85 roses at the moment. I have never sp'd any yet. I am giving away 4 to my sister this year to make space for some more new ones I'm ordering. After this year's order of about 25 or more, I think I need to stop since I'm running out of space (I might start focusing on my sister's garden then)
Cheers,
Sanju

1)I have 23 with 3 coming this month
2) none so far but have one I keep saying I will
3) As many as I can fit on my small lot!

For those of you who have over 100+ roses how much land do you have to put that many??
~Meghan

1. 17 with 6 more coming maybe Fri.
2. 6 simplicity hedge roses. Hardly any blooms, got bs, and the deer trampled plants in front of them getting to dinner.
3. Don't know, I will see if I am successful at keeping the deer out. If I am.....Love Roses.

Jackie

momof2luv2garden, at first I wasn't going to answer your question because I only have 99, but then I thought my answer might be an encouragement/challenge to you. My lot is .17 acre - 60x125 (44x68 of it is house plus whatever the driveway is). I have no grass which about now is a good thing, because my poor neighbors' frozen St Augustine is not looking like it will come back. That'll be expensive.

Sherry

Here in Oregon on my 5 acre "farmette" I am growing about 60 roses. I haven't Sp'd any of them, but have moved some of them to out of the way places to live or die (they mostly live). I will probably max out at 70 or so. That's about the limit to what I want to prune and train.
Kathy

I'm on a shy quarter acre, Momof2luv2garden.

For those with 50+ roses... how on earth do you water your roses? Must be a back-aching experience having to dead-head, spray and water them. What about those dreaded water bills?

I have now 134 different roses (I've planted 26 new this autumn-winter).
I've given away : Gloire de Dijon (nice roses but too unhealthy), Mme Alfred Carière (it didn't fit because it was blooming too high) and Aimée Vibert which doesn't like rainy climate.
I would like to try many roses in my garden (600 square meters) but it becomes difficult to find where to plant.

Here is a link that might be useful: A Little Bit of Paradise

jumbojimmy,

at least at our house, we deal all our (200-ish?) roses by not watering, spraying, or deadheading. A good layer of mulch helps. We are fortunate enough to live in an area where the roses are just pretty darn happy to grow. We have wet winters and dry summers, so by the time it starts getting really dry, the once-bloomers have finished. Then they just kind of sit back being nice leafy shrubs until the rain starts again. Repeat bloomers seem to do ok, too, although they might take a little break when the weather is particularly hot and dry. Last year we had the driest June on record, ridiculously high temperatures, and the roses didn't get a drop of extra water. Some of them sulked, but none of them died--and they aren't even really mature yet. As far as spraying goes, a leaf or 2 with blackspot or a little mildew can be ignored--really poor performers get the shovel. They might get swamped with aphids, but then the predators appear (saw the first syrphid fly larva yesterday! And the ladybugs are already showing up.) If a leaf here and there gets chomped, it's just not that big a deal. If you have enough roses, you can overlook a few imperfections on an individual bush--you just don't have time to worry about it! If we have to spray it, it's not the right rose for our yard. We get hips in the fall because we don't deadhead much.

Our neighbor down the street who has no roses but who insists on a perfectly green lawn had a water bill that was 8 times larger than ours last year.

We have a ridiculous number of roses because, with the right roses for our yard, they are some of the easiest, hardiest, lowest-care plants we own.

I enjoyed reading your post above, Lucretial.
I have a property of 30 acres and a semi permanent creek with the rose garden in great soil on a flat beside the creek. We have had a amazing Summer of rain which has established the new roses I doubled my garden with last Winter. I got real lucky as it could have been a comlplete failure putting in so many rose in one season. I did loose some new Hybred Teas and Floribundas in the late Spring/ early Summer before the rain as it was very dry then.
I am not into prunning and only dead head or cut dead wood out, so far. But I have started cutting canes away when they start intruding on another rose's need for sun. My roses are close together, but I am hoping they can all look good growing together and I still can manage to mow tracks between them.
I think the long grass growing aroud the roses won't be as much a issue of weeding as the roses get bigger. I don't spray and I haven't fertilised them yet, relying on the stores in my good soil. Anyway I am sure going to find out in the years to come, if it is too much for me.

Jumbojimmy, I don't spray and fortunately have little disease but would never spray for environmental reasons, and would just discard the roses that didn't do well without spraying. I mulch as much as possible but do handwater about 90 roses and their companion plants. The thick mulch helps to cut down on the watering. I do deadhead and just throw the roses on top of the mulch so even that's not too arduous. It gets me among the roses which helps because I squish the aphids I see and murder the grasshoppers (I hate them!). By not spraying I have birds and beneficial insects, and planting other varieties between roses makes for a healthier environment.

Ingrid

In this garden that is now 4 years old I have 73 roses (funny I just blogged on this)

And I have shovel pruned 3 roses. One extra Roseraie de l hay, Nicole Carol Miller (too much weird lavender for me) and finally Braveheart. I have endured that rose for so long because my husband loved it, or rather the name! Hated the color and it never really took off.

Here is a link that might be useful: in a garden

I used to live in Lucretia's area and with the same climate zone, and she has exactly described how I grew my roses there. An established rose can go months without water and stay healthy, though after a while it will stop flowering. The once-blooming old roses are magnificent in the Pacific Northwest, and the longer I gardened there, the more of them I had.
When I moved to Italy I took with me what I had learned in Washington state. Here too we have wet winters and dry summers, but with much more summer heat than in Washington, so that I can grow Teas and other warm climate roses. Here too we don't water established roses, and if they were happy to begin with--growing in the right spot--they don't have a problem with it. Two years ago we went four and a half months with one centimeter of rain, and lost just a couple of roses, one in very poor soil. We have heavy soil, which helps a lot, and we keep a thick organic mulch on the beds. Our roses grow relatively slowly, but the plants are strong. My greatest unhappiness with our practice of not watering established roses is that some years the rains start too late to ensure a fall flowering. I don't mind if the roses go dormant in high summer: I don't want to be out under the pitilessly bright sun that time of year anyway. But I mind it when the rain starts in October, the Teas, Noisettes, and Hybrid Musks build up for a magnificent flush, and then they can't flower because it's November and too dark and too cold.
We have (for now) quite inexpensive water, and my main reason for being sparing with it is because I want my garden's needs to be satisfied largely by what nature brings it. Our water source is local and is surface water. We need to be careful with it in summer so that there's enough for everybody, but on the other hand we can't use it up, as could happen with an underground aquifer from which water is withdrawn faster than it's replenished.
Melissa