My Buff Beauty was on a south facing fence that was about three feet from the north wall of my house. It got NO southern sun, and just some east and west exposure, with trees both directions causing further shading. It still got 6 hours... but, barely, I would say. And it looked really good! I specifically picked it for that spot because the people at Berkeley Hort said it would be able to handle the lowish sun supply.

-Greta

Like Sherry and Greta, I've found that full-day hot sun disagrees with some HMs.
I've seen canes burn very badly.

Jeri

Although not a hybrid musk, I moved Mme de Sevigne (a bourbon which may be the same as Mme. Isaac Pierre) from a full sun all day situation to morning sun, then dappled shade. She never looked better. It's worth the try.

robert

My 'Nur Mahal' is in full western sun. The plant itself seems to love it. Very healthy, luxurious foliage in my garden.
Blooms like there's no tomorrow.
But the flowers would appreciate a little afternoon shade I think during the summer.
Great plant.

Randy

Presently, I have Good Golly, a hybrid tea, and Black Cherry, a floribunda, there. I am moving them. They are leafing out, etc. but didnt have much bloom. The bed is well amended, raised and I water it consistently. At the other end of it I have Carefree Celebration, Watercolors and Easy Living - they are all doing well. They get the afternoon sun - the other side gets morning sun. I have a few musks ordered [Lupes Buttons, Secret Garden Musk Climber], have Callisto and Danae as very small plants, growing them out in pots. The 3 I have in pots that are larger and could work there are Prosperity, Penelope or Cornelia. Would any of these work there? I sure dont mind buying another if there is one that would work better there - just trying to decrease the pot ghetto a bit [seeing as how I just did the Vintage discount sale with 8 more today.......that pot ghetto is an ongoing thing, I am thinking]. And Randy, I do plan to get Nur Mahal on my next visit to Antique Rose Emporium this spring!
Judith

Judith, I think you will be very glad you did.
The 'Nur Mahal' I got from them is fantastic.

P.S. Lucky you to be able to visit ARE in person! A place that is almost magical in my opinion.

Randy

Randy - you have no idea how magical! Treat yourself, take off and drive down there Friday night in April when the bluebonnets are in full bloom, spend the night, get up early on Saturday and you will spend the day in bliss wandering around the gorgeous gardens, take a lunch and sit at the picnic tables and have a feast with the soft spring breezes blowing then feast your eyes on all those beautiful beds. You will get so many ideas - you will not be ready to leave by closing time. I go at least twice yearly - last spring I had to go twice. It is a slice of heaven. You will be inspired and enthralled with all that blooming beauty. I never tire of it. And yes, magical is an apt term! One of my favorite things is a huge "spider web" made of baleing wire, used as a trellis. I always study how its done and swear I am going to make one......have never gotten around to it, but one day I will! There are so many clever landscaping treats to see. It cant be April soon enough for me because its ARE time! Even tho Jeri told me how, I havent had a chance to perfect putting photos on the Forum, but if anyone wants to email me....I will send you some of one of my 2008 spring visits.
Judith

Judith, it is easy as can be. Upload your photos to photobucket(it's free). There will be 4 lines under each photo. Copy the third line below the photo, come here and type your message, paste the photo you copied into your message and when you hit preview you will see your photo and know that you did it correctly. Then hit submit! I'd love to see your photos.

Carol

Perhaps it depends on the hybrid musk in question. I had my Clytemnestra (grafted on fortuniana), in a partial sun situation, and she always had some sort of crud going on. This resulted in a partially defoliated bush and was very unattractive. She didn't do well in her pot or in the ground in this situation. I moved this bush rather quickly (before she knew she was being disturbed), into a full sun exposure. She gets sun from sunup until sundown, plenty of irrigation when needed, and she is one of the most gorgeous looking hybrid musks anyone could ask for. I don't spray either.

Dr. Manners at one time remarked to me that he had never seen a hybrid musk on it's own roots in Florida that was ever very happy, which may explain some of Sherry's difficulties with the hybrid musks (if they aren't on fortuniana). I tried Prosperity on it's own roots in both full sun and partial shade. It did better in full sun, but still not all that great. The one that Malcolm had on fortuniana looked fabulous, and it was in full sun.

That said, I would think a hybrid musk would do fine if it gets the first morning sun, and then at least 6 hours worth of sun thereafter, as long as it likes your soil, etc. They also seem to need plenty of water in the hot summer temps. Penelope would most likely do better than Prosperity in a partial shaded situation.

Sandy

In the Sacramento cemetery, we had a Buff Beauty in dappled shade from a giant elm tree for years, and touted it as an example of how HMs do well in shade. We lost the elm tree, and Buff Beauty took off!!! It has doubled in size and bloom production. Sacramento sun is pretty darned intense, and all of our HMs are in full sun now, and they all do well. We probably have ten cultivars.

I cover Nur Mahal for myself. And would love, love, love to come to ARE someday.
Anita

I coveT Nur Mahal, not coveR. Sheez.
Anita

There is a Buff Beauty across the street from Berkeley Hort on a fence under a very shady tree. That rose is the reason the Hort staff tell people to get Buff Beauty for shadier spots. It bloomed its head off and burgeoned all over the fence with apparently no attention.

I wouldn't be without this rose as long as I lived in a suitable zone.

Judith, you are making me want to pack my bags for Brenham this spring.
I have been to ARE one time. It's a long way from Dallas, and apparently from where you live too (East Texas). It was in the middle of the summer and very hot, but still was fantastic to be there. I loved the place, so interesting to stroll around, not only looking at the plants for sale, but also at the roses, perennials, trees, etc that are growing in the ground there along paths, etc. It's a breath of fresh (country) air.

Anita, if I could, I would both covet AND cover my 'Nur Mahal' tonight. It's got fresh new spring growth all over its graceful arching canes, and it's going to get down to 30F tonight.

Randy

You know what Anita -- I've been thinking about that Buff Beauty.
I wonder if part of what makes it so great is that it had that dappled shade for a few years, and got well established, BEFORE it got full sun.

Jeri

Jeri, part of what makes so many of the cemetery roses so great is that they didn't get pruned in the first years after they were planted, and have never been pruned hard. And they've gotten deep water once a week, if that often. The root systems on these roses are amazing.

I just don't know about the shade. It fascinated me how quickly the roses grew larger and bloomed more after the tree was removed.
Anita

I'm experimenting with Vanity. Both my plants were in morning sun, dappled rest of day on the split-rail fence. I have moved one to the west-facing fence to see if it will bloom more (heavier flushes, I'm not expecting anything midsummer!) and also if it can keep some foliage. Penelope seems to be one of the best HM's for shadier situations, I always seem to be planting a different HM and I'm really overdue for Penelope!!!

My take on most roses is, they may tolerate some shade, but they are definitely sun lovers. It is interesting in the winter here when the days are shorter how the roses will lean back towards my white house, searching for even more sun and light.

What I have found is that when we get some of the brutally hot weather in the summer, I will sometimes have to give certain roses a drink of water in the morning and again in the afternoon. This seems to work better rather than shading the roses.

However, I DO have some roses that get sun all morning and then are shaded in the mid afternoon, due to my wishes on where I want roses. They do O.K., but the same rose planted in more sun blooms a whole lot more, and is generally more contented. I'm thinking of moving the less contented ones into more sun.

Sandy

Sandy, do you actually have any hybrid musks? Because they really do seem to be not only more shade tolerant, but some seem to prefer NOT to get "more sun." I generally agree with you, but I bet there are hybrid musks that would not be happy in the sunniest spots in your garden in your highly sun-intensive zone.

-Greta