Suckering rootstocks is actually a very minor problem here. I have one or two of hundreds of roses on Dr. Huey that I have to watch -- and it's really not so hard as Dr. Huey foliage and growth habit is very different from the normal hybrid tea growth habit - long whippy narrow canes with narrow leaves that are dark on the edges, usually. I see them and yank them off, and usually it's just Sunset Celebration and Signature that keep new ones coming every year. I have about 10 roses on Fortuniana, and 1 of those has thrown a few suckers, but they are easy to spot too. The color of the sucker on Fort is light green and the leaves are again narrow, and more than 5 per leaflet. Taking care of the suckers is 1/10 of the work as compared to taking care of the weeds.

As far as "turning own root," yes, you can bury the graft here and the rose MAY start growing roots from the graft, eventually becoming solely dependant on those roots. However, those growth buds would likely have been basal canes if you had left the graft above ground, exposed to sunlight, so why would you want to trade those away? Turning the rose from grafted into an own root (and yes, it will eventually catch up) would probably set your plant back a year. But given that the suckers are really not that big of a problem, and that the varieties that were chosen to be rootstocks were chosen in part because they impart good vigor to the grafted variety, it's a hassle that is not worth pursuing, in my opinion.

In the colder parts of the country, they bury the graft because they have to, to keep the grafted variety alive -- not dead from freezing or harsh freeze/thaw/wind whipping cycles. We warm-zoners have the luxury to have the choice to keep it above ground, and I choose to keep it above ground. But if you are set on having own root varieties, that is certainly your perogative.

There is another concern with Fortuniana-grafted plants and that is that they generally graft them very high -- 8 to 10 inches up. That means if you were to bury the graft, the first roots would be almost a foot underground, which could kill (suffocate) the plant. Fortuniana roots like to be much shallower than that, so I would not want to try that.

Good luck,

Kathy

One more thought -- on multiflora rootstock, I don't think I've ever seen a sucker. And I have some multiflora root-stock varieties that I have been growing for 10 to 15 years (old Hortico customer here). If there were a sucker, however, that would also be easy to spot, as the multiflora used as a rootstock is usually thornless.

I have heard some people say that multiflora will not grow in Southern California, due to our alkaline soils and water, but that has not been my personal experience. So, just try it and see how it works where you are.

I've grown grafted roses for more than two decades on 5 different rootstocks that I'm aware of (Dr Huey, Manetti, Laxa, Fortuniana & Multiflora). I've no doubt that suckering may occur, I have yet to see suckering from the rootstock of any grafted rose that I've ever grown.

Just to clarify: UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU EVER BURY THE BUD UNION OF A ROSE GRAFTED ON FORTUNIANA ROOTSTOCK. Anyone with lots of experience with roses on Fortuniana will urge you NEVER to bury the bud union. Don't think of roses on Fortuniana as being regular bareroots. They are generally container grown (not field grown), and should be planted in your garden at the same depth that they were in the container. Most folks who grow roses on Fortuniana select that rootstock because they want to PREVENT their roses from going own-root. Even tho Fortuniana has an extensive lateral root system, it also grows DEEPER than other rootstocks. Despite the robust root system, there remains a degree of instability; consequently the need always to stake roses grown on this rootstock.

That's a good point about Fortuniana, jaxondel. I will remember that. I still want to try a Fortuniana to see what kind of monster rose I could grow.

I think all my Austins have gone own-root with buried bud unions. The other moderns, not so much, though the ones that have are more vigorous and have more basals. 'Garden Party' is particularly enthusiastic about going own-root.

In this garden the thing with multiflora is that they do not tolerate getting too dry. Here Dr. Huey handles a drought better. Perhaps this is due to multiflora having lots of tiny fibrous roots while Dr. H is a few thick roots??

Hoovb, do your HTs with buried grafts still send out basals? It is hard to believe that people up north who always bury grafts grow nothing but two or three cane wonders...

Masha

"I still want to try a Fortuniana to see what kind of monster rose I could grow" Haha, me too! I might even already have one, an Angel Face with a really high bud union I have always wondered about. Thanks for the info about the different rootstocks as it will be very helpful when shopping for grafted varieties. I was interested in multiflora because of the "nonsuckering" quality, but now that I know that it doesn't like dry weather I see that multiflora could be a big mistake for my garden.
I think it would be interesting to compare how grafted vs own root of the same varieties would do after 5, 10, and more years, and to that end I have planted grafted roses at my mother's home and own roots at mine. Unfortunately, buying different varieties has kept the experiment from being very scientific. I would have to allocate funds to repeat roses and that is very difficult to do with so many roses I want to try. I have about 20 older roses and 30 newer ones at her house, and about 30 (and counting) bands and gallons at my house. So far, several of her 20+ years old grafted roses have been taken over by Dr. Huey before I learned to watch for him, and many of her oldest roses do not send out basal breaks. I am afraid that some of the HT's I am interested in would be better grafted, but I think I will stay the course for the most part.
BTW, that's a very good question Masha, any experiences to share?

Hoovb, do your HTs with buried grafts still send out basals?

Yes.

The fun thing about Fortuniana is that the roots can travel quite a ways to find their own water (e.g., the neighbor's sprinklered lawn?). The whole fibrous root ball can be translocated from the main plant and attached by one long connecting root, instead of the root ball being directly under the plant, which makes it different from Dr. Huey and Multiflora and most own root roses.

This strange propensity also makes it difficult to relocate the plant if you ever need to move it -- you can't just dig down and assume you have the main roots. They may be somewhere else.

I told this to my brother when he was moving into a house he just bought. He then went out and bought six fortuniana-rooted plants, and planted them in a totally unwatered bed that is fortuitously close to a neighbor who participates in a community "best front yard" contest. They've only been there a few months now, but I guess we are going to test this concept.

I was recently at the ARS National in Palm Springs and heard an enlightening talk on the subject of burying grafts from Werner Ruf, an organic rose grower from Germany. He buries his grafts to give the plant sturdiness and as he says "To allow the rose to choose" which way it prefers, grafted or own-root. He has never had a problem. I personally think the grafted plant will take off from the graft while developing its own roots over time which will take over (as nature intended).
I was always told to bury the plant just below the graft which also makes sense so the basal canes may multiply. I am in an area of North Central Florida and I grow all my roses on their own roots anyway. Fortuniana is used exclusively for grafting in this area. I think it would be nice to try a rose such as Climbing Clotilde Soupert for a change since it is so vigorous here.

Exciting discovery! I went out to check the grafted roses and a bunch of them are grafted really high up, which jogged my memory into remembering that the roostock that was taking over LEM was not Dr.Huey, but something else which now I believe to be Fortuniana. The suckering is still a problem as the sucker was bigger than the original plant by the time I realized it and yanked it, but I have high hopes as far as virus issues. I checked my noticeably virused plant of America and the graft is a lot lower than LEM, therefore must be Dr. Huey. America still blooms prolifically so I'm not even considering SP'ing it, this is all just research.

I had great luck with getting Huey rooted roses to grow roots off the canes when the bud union is planted deeper. I am not a scientist, so here is what I am observing going on.....
The rose canes root faster in the part of the yard where I mixed in sand before. The soil is more fertile in the upper areas so the huey roots that are 12 inches or lower seem to weaken and not have as many feeder roots when I dig up the roses and look at them. It takes about 3 years in my yard to get a good own root system going from scratch.

I ordered Palatine roses a few years back. I loved the selection but the shipping cost dearly to CA. The roots were monstrous large. They grew like weeds in 15 gallon cans. Some died away completely in my soil, refusing to own root and in a year, the multiflora roots were looking like the roots of body bag roses. Some own rooted and are now fine, but the multiflora roots are long gone. Some lived becuse I moved them back to potting soil in 15 gallon cans while I wait for them to own root. I always kept them watered-and it wasn't a wickedly hot summer. I noticed that some multiflora rooted plants were chlorotic. I remember somebody else said that happens in So. Cal. clay soils with this rootstock. Would I buy from Palatine again? Yes! I am so happy to have roses I never could have got anywhere else. Pomponella has been so good to me, blooming faithfully and is a monster on her own roots.

Hoovb, how did your multiflora roses preform in Southern California? Did you sprinkle garden sulfur around them? Did it help?

I have a Picasso grafted on multiflora in east San Diego (Del Cerro) that I bought in the late 1980's (and planted at my mom's house, where she still lives). It still has the graft about three inches above ground, so I know it has not gone own root, and it still is a healthy happy plant, even through summers can be hot and mom never gives it anything more than a handful of osmocote every year. I have some others that are growing well for me in San Juan Capistrano, but the oldest here is 5 years old, and I baby them and feed them much more than my mother. So, even though I've heard others say multiflora is not good for Southern California, mine on that rootstock have been as good as Dr. Huey, if not better.

Kathy