If you do have lotus borers, keep in mind that they usually don't kill the plant, just make it ugly....which isn't much of a comfort, I guess. :)

The best way to control them is by cutting off the affected foliage. Btk probably won't work on them, although you could try injecting it into the hole.

Sorry for your troubles!

Brenda

Thanks Brenda!

I don't mind so much it being ugly this year, and next year I will know what to look for=) I was worried they would bore down to the tubers, if they won't kill them, they are okay with me for now!

John

Hi John,
Great pond/picture. Keep up the attack on the bad bugs. I also like to hand pick or use only organic solutions for problem bugs, a few drops of vegetable oil works on corn ear borers, suffocates them. Maybe you could try it on your worms, since you saw them coming out of a hole in the stem, just a thought.
Take Care
Dianne

Hey John,
How is your Lotus doing lately? Haven't had a recent update.
Hope you got the worms under control.
Dianne

Well, the caterpillars are terrible. There seem to be different kinds now, or just the different phases of one moth. I am learning a lot about moths.

I think BT will work but I am not super concerned this year. It is still putting out a lot of new growth, so as long as I have some tubers, I will be happy.

Next year I bet the fish and frogs will be able to take care of them before they become a problem.

One more blossom is coming up now!

John

On a humorous side note. When I was trying to find a biological solution to the lotus pests, 90% of the links were to sites that promoted the caterpillars as effective ways to deal with "those pesky lotus plants". Hahaha. Guess it's all in perspective!

John

Hi John,
Well, we haven't heard from you in a while! How are things going in your neck of the woods? Did the worms win or did you save the Lotus? Did any of your lotus flowers turn into seed pods? Just curious, hope to have a update.
Regards
Dianne

Ditto for me John.
hahaha......I just saw your comment about "perspective". How true!
I grow a veggie garden. I pick off the tomato horn worms and throw them into a bush (can't stand to kill them). If left on the tomato plant, they would eat it bare. But did you know that they are the caterpillar that turns into the really cool hummingbird moth??? I guess that's why I can't kill them (among other reasons).
Nature knows exactly what its doing to keep this old world turning just right. But man has other ideas of what's "good" and "bad". of what's "pretty" or "ugly", of what's "right" or "wrong". Sorry to get so philosophical so early in the morning. hahaha
Let us hear from you. I hope that runner didn't finally get to you. :)

haha, I just got out of the hospital after it almost choked me to death!

Did you know some pine trees can only reproduce during forest fires? Their cones only blow up at a certain degree. Mother is much smarter than we are.

Okay, here is what I have learned so far.

1.)Follow advice=p I think the bugs were able to do such damage because the lotus wasn't strong enough due to the fact that I didn't allow it enough soil for all the nutrients it needed.

2.) My lotus plant is lazy. They won't send up ariels unless they have to. Otherwise it seemed content to just put floaters up.

3.) Lotus plants do NOT follow instructions.

Now, what I am trying to figure out is when they make tubers. I wanted to get the tubers out before winter, but in order to do that, they either need to form on non-rooted plants, or I need to find out when to wash the mud away to expose them. I was going to wait till spring, but I don't know if they would be deep enough.

Work meeting now, but I still have to post pictures. The runners were really cool to watch, how they form roots and get leverage and stuff!!

It has been a learning experience at the least. I guess I always like to know the "whys" of things=p

-John

Hi John!
I hope you don't have runner burns on your neck! I'm glad you finally got out of the hospital. Did you hear any strange tapping ont he window at night? haha
I think you're right about the bugs. They seem to know when a plant isn't healthy. Then again.....maybe those bugs are on this planet for the soul purpose of keeping lotus from taking over???
Here's my uneducated guestimation on what you should do in LATE fall. I would reach down into the mud (if you're afraid its too shallow to leave until spring), and GENTY feel around for tubers. Can you gently scoop up the mud that's on the top, before trying to get the tubers?
If the mud on top is very soft, you could probably gently start pulling anything up that comes up. The tubers are there somewhere.....but probably at the bottom. But don't be rough.
Its really hard to know what to expect in regards to tubers.....but you should have a couple. Just be careful not to damage the eyes/growing tips that are near the tubers. You can store them in water until you decide what to do with them. Just don't let the water freeze. And if you have wildlife around, protect them from the animals pulling them out of the water and eating them. They are supposed to taste really good.
I need to thin one of mine in the spring.....although I might get adventurous and do it this fall. Its so easy once you've done it once. Its sort of scary at first.
I would be interested to know exactly why your's didn't put up aerials. Maybe it sensed it didn't have enough mud, and chose to send out scouts to find a better spot to settle in??? Its pretty wild how smart things are.
Actually, I like to explain human behavior like that too. Sometimes its hard to figure out, since we've piled so much "civilization" onto us.....but its there.
Well keep us posted. And if you're ever in the hospital again, tell someone to tell us, and we'll send you a bouquet of lotus blossoms (~theme from "jaws" playing in the background~) :)

It put up some ariels, just not as many as I've seen in most pictures. I'll bet you are right when you say it's because of not enough mud. I also imagine it wouldn't have enough of a strong base to send up the tall shoots. It is pretty crafty though, and did come up through a whole bunch of river rock=p

-John

Hi John,
Glad you survived the "Lotus Attack", M. Nature does have her own way of keeping everything balanced. Seems like you have learned a lot from your experiment. Hopefully you will have at least one or two good tubers before winter. I know I have learned a lot. Next year I hope to grow a Lotus in a tub next to the pond. I'm mostly finished with the waterfall & stream.
Just need to get a few more rocks to finish it, Hope to do that this weekend. I am going to post a picture in the gallery. Keep us updated.
Dianne

I can't wait to dig around in the freezing cold mud !

-John

P.S. Does anyone ship tubers in the fall? If so, I could send you one in soon, Dianne. Otherwise, if you are still interested we can wait till spring.

Hi again John,
Since I know nothing about Lotus, can't answer that! I think most commercial growers mail in the spring, but don't know the reason. Maybe either ship before they start new growth or when temps warm up???? From everything I have researched, I have concluded that Lotus likes very warm temps & start to go dormant at the first hint of cool weather. They need fairly high fertilization, & should be uprooted & divided when they become crowded. On the other hand if new sprouts are broken it will most likely kill the tuber. I don't know if I am more knowledgeable or more confused!?!? I am still going to plant one next spring??? in a large tub so maybe it will not take over my pond. If you dig up or harvest or unmuck a spare tuber I would gladly take you up on the offer. My email address is posted everytime I post, so feel free to email me. I went to the farm & got another load of rocks to finish my waterfall/stream. May take me awhile to do since I have developed Lateral Epicondylitis(tennis elbow)LOL Who knew you could get tennis elbow from digging & moving rocks. Only solution is to not use the muscles in your arm, another LOL, to let it heal. Fat chance of me not using my arm, guess I will just have to ignore the searing pain. Keep us updated on your adventure!
Dianne

Hi John,
I don't know of anyone shipping them in the Fall. I think the problem is that if they start to come out of dormancy, and then get cold again, they die pretty easily.
Just wait until spring.

Okay, I did my mud diving a couple of days ago and I learned a lot. I meant to take pictures.. but it was cold and windy and I was a total dirtball and didn't want to break my new camera.

The best tuber came out of the spot where I guided a runner into a pot, it was in a deeper part of the pond and had heavily fertilized soil. I was hoping the lotus would make tubers in the free water areas also, but I was wrong. I knew they were heavy feeders, but was hoping it would channel the nutrients from the soil-potted mother plant.

It was neat, I don't know if I mentioned it before or not, but it was like a bunch of strings of Christmas lights all tangled up. Most of the tubers that formed in the shallow soil areas were pretty scrawny, but I hope they will work. I wrapped them up carefully in a net and put them in a bucket below the freezing level of the lake.

I was worried that if I put them in a bucket with a lid, they might not be able to exchange gases. Do they need to do that in the winter?

As soon as I find time, I will post some of the pictures I took while It was growing. Those things are so cool. I think the reason they are so pricey is because the tubers are a pain. I was as careful as I could be and I still kept breaking growing points. That is why I was hoping they would tuber-out without the mud! Oh well, it was a lot of fun.

I also didn't pull the whole plant up. In case the ones I attempted to over-winter don't make it, hopefully some will survive on the pond banks. The lotus plant proved already that it is smarter than I am. More crafty, too. I just hope we don't flood next spring=P

Next year, that sucker is going in a pot.

-John

Hi John!
Good to hear that you're still kicking. I worried about you and that plant! :)
Yes, they need air exchange in the winter. I learned that the hard way by storing several big containers of them in my storage room of my chicken coop, wrapped in garbage bags. They smelled like a bad septic field in the spring and were mush.
I probably would have put your's in soil in a pot in the lake, but I think they'll probably be okay. Just be careful pulling them out of the netting in the spring. Also, I hope fish can't get to them, because I think they will eat them.
I was the same as you when I thinned my first lotus. I wish I had taken pictures, but you don't think of the camera until you're in the middle of it, and don't want to stop.
I left a big pile of roots and small tubers just laying in a heap in the spring. It was in a shadey area of the back yard. But about 2 months later, when I went to move it all to my compost pile, I found some leaves growing! I just threw the stuff into a stocktank and it grew all summer! Maybe they aren't as delicate as we've been told? I hadn't watered that thing for 2 months, so all it got was occasional rain.
Aren't you glad that's done? I still have to get all my stuff ready for winter, but I'm having some back problems, so I haven't done anything yet.
Keep us posted!

Thanks Catherine!

Sorry to hear about your back, it's very frustrating, I imagine. I wish I could help you!

- John

P.S. I was afraid of having to try to get them back out of soil again!!!

Hi John & Catherine,
Well, it sure has been fun keeping up with The Lotus Adventures!! It sounds like you two are winding down for the season. Here in Texas we still have about one more month of ponding before we close shop. I leave my pond running all winter. John, I am glad you got at least one good tuber from your experiment! Catherine, Good luck with your back! I know how frustrating it can be to want to work on something & not be able to, I developed Lateral Epicondylitis (tennis elbow) in both arms while digging up rocks for my waterfall. Only thing that helps the pain is, Not Using My Arms, LOL Next year I am definitely going to grow a Lotus in a Large Tub next to my pond. Hope you both have a wonderful winter, I am going to try my luck at Winter Sowing this year. Hope to hear from you next season with more Lotus excitement!
Take Care
Dianne

Hi Dianne,

I still have to post the pictures I took while it was growing. Neat stuff. The runner I captured for you is the one that produced the good tuber so I will ship it when the time is right. Assuming it makes it through the winter, and also assuming I don't break it=p (I had a lotus years back that I lowered off the dock at my parents lake cabin. The next spring my mom had forgotten about it and thought someone had been messing with her dock so she cut it loose=/)

I think today I might go back and get the rest of it out. Catherine's picture skerred me. It occured to me that it might still be trying to push down and I surely don't want it to go through the liner!

Talk to you soon! People are smart when they tell you to plant them in containers!

-John

HI Dianne and John,
LOL! I'm sorry my pic skerred ya John!
I have this new (last April) lotus bog. My husband and son dug this huge hole and then put a 300 gallon stocktank down in it, and then filled it back up with soil and some water. Now its going crazy. Maybe I've created a monster?? hahaha I'll give it a couple years and see where it takes me. If it doesn't work out, I'll have the guys dig all the soil out and I'll turn it back into a pond with lotus IN a container. I won't tell my husband and son about this yet.....I don't want to make them sad. hahaha
Oh well.....nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?
Sorry about your elbows Dianne. What a bummer. Can't get too much done without using those, right?
Sometimes I get a little jealous of people who seem to never have anything on their bodies break down!
Good luck with the remaining month in the growing season. I'm sort of glad to rest for awhile. But I'll probably really start missing it again around January 1, when we can't get out of our lane because of the snow!
I do miss the frogs singing already though.

haha

About 5 years ago I decided to expand a pond a bit. Well, I got a little carried away and rented a Bobcat to dig it out. I ended up getting the thing stuck in 2 feet of mud in the bottom of the pond and I was in the cockpit looking straight up and thinking that it couldn't get much worse. Then it started raining. We had to tow it out.

Lesson learned.

I had a buddy who is good with heavy equipment so we rented a backhoe. So, after all the excavation, I was leveling the sides and ordered liner and was getting all done and the landlord said it posed too many problems so he brought he tractor out and filled it all in.

Sheesh, everytime I think about how much time and money was wasted it makes me laugh.

I guess the reason I told this story is to say don't use your bodies, use heavy machinery!

- John

Hey John....."I guess the reason I told this story is to say don't use your bodies, use heavy machinery!"
So now you tell me! ;) LOL.
Don't feel too bad John, We've all wasted tons of money and time on one hobby or another!
Hey....we're almost at the 100 post limit! We can always start a part 2!

Part two comes next spring! I miss summer already, winter always makes me a little depressed=/

-John

See Ya next season guys!! Have a great Winter!

See you in the Spring. I'm going to go hibernate now. :)

This is a really neat site that Nymphgarden has and been gracious enough for me to repost the link.

I assume there are better pictures here than I could show from my experiments!

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Nymphgardens site

Wow John, That was a really cool site. So now I know what to look forward to next year. I especially liked the tub shaped lotus tubers, that thing was huge. Imagine if it got loose in a pond or lake?!?! You might never get it under control again!
To keep away the winter blues you might try "Winter Sowing".
It gives you something to do & look forward to in the spring.
There is a winter sowing forum listed in GW. Check it out! It's really great!
Hope you have a great winter, see you later.
Dianne

Last question. Has anyone eaten lotus tubers? I am a chef by trade so it was of my objectives, but I didn't end up with enough tubers to risk eating any=p

-John

P.S. It's not really my last question, probably.

Lots of orientals have, I'm sure..........plus native Americans too......but not me. They're supposed to be good. Its just too hard for me to eat anything from my pond, since I've seen the yuk it grows in. hahaha

The question about eating the tubers... your probably not going to get a large enough tuber (thickness) out of your lotus in a small pond. You need to get the large tubers in a large, warm, natural pond. Google recipies if you want to try them. Also, lotus seeds and leaves are edible.

I havent taken the time to read all the posts yet, but to my knowlage, they hate moving water, and like most plants will tend to grow away from it, they will most likely never puncture your liner, the growing tip would either die or curve around, if water gets into one of their leaves, the most thats going to happen is its going to just rot off the healthy tube over time and everything will keep going nicely. If you dont have a natural bottom pond, container growing is the way to go. If you do have a natural bottom pond, make sure you want it only to be for lotus... which will probably be the most beautiful thing you have ever seen when they bloom. Oh, its november, if you put those lotus in the lake even in a sealed container or whatever, im going to be VERY upset.

"Oh, its november, if you put those lotus in the lake even in a sealed container or whatever, im going to be VERY upset."

Too late, sur! They are wrapped in netting, in a bucket off the dock. I can't build my pond deep enough to ensure they won't freeze. It is a private lake and if they *do* manage to get out, they are at a depth where it is very unlikely they will survive.

Also, I disagree with not being able to get large enough tubers from a small pond. I have seen some pictures of some big tubers out of a fairly small container.

I hope the ones left in the pond won't puncture the liner but some of those growing tips get pretty big and mean. They did turn as soon as they met resistance, but if they do end up getting confined somewhere under some rocks I am not so sure....

Thanks for your input!

-John

Update! Ice has finally melted off of the lake and pond.

The best tubers that I had carefully wrapped and sunk in the lake are missing. It looks like some curious soul got on our dock and hauled them up.

Luckily, I had left some in the pond that should have frozen and died, but didn't!

Now the tricky part is extracting the good tubers from the literal ton of river rock mixed with mud. I have already gotten a little too frisky with one of the growing points but I think it will still be okay.

This year I am planning on using a container=p I did learn a ton of stuff last year and will post some more pictures when I get things cleared up a bit.

- John

Hi John,
You mean a person stole them? That's weird. What would they think they were? Could fish, etc. have gotten them?
I'm glad you have some left.
Hopefully you can salvage at least 1, and you'll be on your way! Keep us posted.

Catherine, you are normal again!

There was some evidence to suggest someone had tampered with them. I've no idea what they did with them, but I do know people don't always behave the way I would like them to!

I suppose they could have gotten out; However, I was really, really good about making sure they were secure. I think what happened was someone saw a rope tied off the dock and hauled them up. If lotus take over the lake this year, I guess I was wrong=p

I was surprised and pleased they survived the pond over the winter. I had promised two tubers to forum members and think I might be still be able to come up with them and have one left over to repot!

- John

Hey John,
How do you know they survived? You must be in a warmer zone than me. My won't show up for about another 2 months.

Catherine, (if that is indeed your name), I am on to your little game. It was a simple enough matter for me to deduce that you are actually a French spy planted in these forums. My guess is anyone who finds out how tough lotus plants are disappears. Rest assured you will never find me, for I have FLED THE COUNTRY!

For those of you who want to know the truth. I hooked my pump back up after the winter. There was still some ice on the pond and some ice in the PVC that I had to clear before I could get the water moving. I wanted to make some changes to the pond layout so I was recirculating the water and using the 1.5" hose discharge to flush the mud from the sides into the middle. I went to move a rock that was up by the waterfall and noticed something green floating in the water and investigated. Turns out a tuber had wedged itself under a rock and I had unknowingly broken the growing point. (Superglue does not work well on wet plants, FYI) Further searching revealed more plants that had escaped my tender loving care and were still alive. However, I had put a literal ton of river rock on top of the mud so getting them out is going to be tough.

I HAVE PICTURES I WILL POST WHEN I MAKE IT TO THE SAFEHOUSE!

- John

All of this occured in zone 5.

Dangit John, you've outted me! Now I must morph into something different again.
Actually, I'm not French.......but LOTUS!! Its been my intent all along to tell everyone how wonderful we are, so they will plant more of my kind and we can take over the world!
You can run, John, but you cannot hide.......

Hahahaha I knew it!!!

You'll never catch me; I'm the Gingerbread man!

John & Cat,
Well, the secret plot is finally revealed!! The Name Confusion was only a ruse!! I'm happy the Lotus survived! Which only confirms my suspicions that Lotus is from another planet & was sent here to take over out temperate waters!! This is your mission if you choose to accept it!!
Can't wait to see the picts! ;D

I knew lotus plants would take on a female identity. They are wild and unruly and do whatever they want!

Looks like I jumped the gun a little bit on messing about in the mud, but I got one really good tuber with 3 growing points out, and so far the rest were probably not viable. I have found firm runners with the right color but alas they did not lead to tubers as I had hoped.

Then work called me back in so I just had enough time to secure anything I thought *might* grow.

Please cross your fingers that I come up with 2 more tubers. Then I can send 2 out and keep 1. Well, the lake will probably be overrun with lotus by the end of the season, so I guess I only need 1 more!=P

- John

In California it's illegal to put any non native plants in a waterway that might escape into nearby streams or lakes, private or not. Not sure if it's federal law or not but it does seem a bit irresponsible to put such an invasive plant in a lake that must be connected to other waterways. We have huge issue here with water hyacinth in our waterways from someone doing just that. Please Check and make sure it's legal before you do that!

Hi everyone, I quickly read over this long thread. I think this is some kind of lotus. If I am wrong someone please correct me. This is a community pond in Maryland.

Those are Lotus. They will take over ponds, except if the water is too deep. They can grow up out of the water if the ground is very wet. In your climate they'll die back in winter. Difficult to get rid of if you don't want them but cutting off all the leaves below water level will kill them off. It needs a bit of persistence.

Yep........lotus. They are sooooooo aggressive. In fact, when I used to plant one in a 7 gallon pot and put it in a larger stocktank, I would have to thin it every 2 years. When I would dump it out, there would be no soil at all.......just roots. I had a relative who put in 2 big ponds and he added lotus. He really regretted it when both of them had the lotus take over everything. I've heard about cutting off the stem under water, but I'm thinking with so many of them, a lot would surely survive. I fear you (or your community) will have to pull them out. They are such a beautiful plant/flower, but they just don't know when to quit. And every year you'll have all those dead leaves and seed pods in the pond. The pond might start getting a bit unhealthy. Good luck!

Hi

I'm Deanna

I just did a Research Paper on the Lotus Blossom, those dried seed pods are very expensive at the Flower market.

They are in dried flower arrangements, look at the crafts stores, Micheals & Hobby Lobby.

All of the plant in edible, the seeds are in those dried pods.

You can eat them too.

I'm growing mine in a 5 gallon bucket I bought at the Nursery that sell Aquatic Plants.

I'm going to do a indoor pond, to watch it grow & have 2 baby goldfish to live in the habit.

I’m very happy with this plant & looking forward to seeing it bloom next year.

I wanted to share what these Lotus flowers look like in Zone 9. This is the pond that runs along the back of our neighborhood. Not sure who started this but they sure are beautiful and I enjoy them very much. We also have the invasive Water Hyacinth as well in there.

I was upset yesterday because the yard guy cut the border of the Lotus while they were in full bloom yesterday. I mean I know they drop 100 of thousands of seeds each year so they will survive.

In China they are the symbol of longevity.

They are beautiful. But they can also be incredibly invasive and need to be thinned. When you say the yard guy cut the border of them, how did he do that, when they're in the water? I had an in ground 300 gallon stocktank and grew them in there for about 12 years, then they died out (because of no drainage and the ferilizer must have built up.) I sure do miss them. As far as the seeds at your pond reseeding, I think they take forever to grow (like many years).......but the tubers will reproduce for a long time. I've seen ponds totally covered with lotus, and they unfortunately do eventually need to be thinned out. ........a pretty hard job. But.....keep enjoying your view!

This thread is very educational. thanks a lot