Ooops!

Forgot to add my preliminary working list that I'm trying to narrow down, and couldn't find an edit button for my first post. Anything that should be added? taken off?

Brandy
Charlotte Armstrong
Chrysler Imperial
Double Delight
Elina
Fragrant Cloud
Fragrant Hour
Granada
Mme Chiang Kai-shek
Lemon Spice
Mr. Lincoln
Moonstone
Oregold
Papa Meilland
Paul McCartney
Peace
Pink Lemonade
Pope John Paul II
Secret
Sutter's Gold
Tiffany
Tropicana
and one of the lavender ones, haven't decided yet

I live about a mile from the ocean in southern California. It is best for us to avoid anything that is described as prone to rust fungus, unless we want to stick to a diligent antifungal spray regime.

Spot anthracnose and powdery mildew appear under certain weather conditions, but true blackspot is rarely seen here.

Good air circulation and more than 6 hours average direct sunlight are important for foliage health.

I have grown some on your wish list, with the following experiences:

Brandy -- a favorite, very pretty and healthy
Double Delight -- very pretty, great fragrance, some powdery mildew
Elina -- long-lasting shapely blooms, healthy, not fragrant to my nose
Fragrant Cloud -- some rust and powdery mildew, fragrant
Lemon Spice -- a favorite, great fragrance, good health
Mr. Lincoln -- pretty, fragrant, occasional powdery mildew
Secret -- a favorite, pretty, fragrant, good health
Sutter's Gold -- an old-time favorite, good health, fragrant
Tropicana -- some rust and powdery mildew, fragrant

As a fellow coastal dweller, and Consulting Rosarian --

Your problem will be powdery mildew, and some on your list are subject to it.
I have to say, though, that I have seen roses grown right AT the beach which resisted fungal disease better than roses a block inland.
I think it's the wind.

The truth is, Hybrid Tea Roses in general aren't the optimal choice for the edge of the Pacific Ocean. But, among the group you are considering:

Brandy -- Probably wants more heat than you can give him, but try him, and hide your pruning shears.
Charlotte Armstrong May be Mildew Prone
Chrysler Imperial May be Mildew Prone
Double Delight May be Mildew Prone
Elina Don't know
Fragrant Cloud May be Mildew Prone
Fragrant Hour
Granada Beyond any doubt will be Mildew Prone
Mme Chiang Kai-shek Don't know
Lemon Spice Don't know
Mr. Lincoln May be Mildew Prone
Moonstone Don't know
Oregold Don't know
Papa Meilland May be Mildew Prone
Paul McCartney Don't know
Peace will rust
Pink Lemonade Don't know
Pope John Paul II Reports are promising -- said to be very disease-resistant
Secret Bulletproof
Sutter's Gold Will like more heat
Tiffany Will probably like more heat
Tropicana Recommend against it, probably Mildew Prone

Recommend you consider Brigadoon and possibly Diana Princess of Wales
That said, the best roses for your conditions are Teas and Chinas and Tea Noisettes, which will flourish in your conditions.

Jeri

I live 1.5 miles from the coast in Santa Barbara, grow ~300 roses, 90% HTs and FLs, and from your list these are all excellent for me:

Brandy
Chrysler Imperial
Double Delight
Elina
Fragrant Cloud
Fragrant Hour
Granada
Lemon Spice
Mr. Lincoln
Moonstone
Oregold
Papa Meilland
Paul McCartney
Peace
Secret
Tiffany

A couple on your original list I have grown previously, but ditched for various reasons, and a couple I have not grown. Suffice it to say that there are tons of other great HTs and FLs that do great in this climate. But this list is pretty much rock-solid as a starting point for a newbie HT fan in our area. While I love many of these roses very much, if I had only one from your list that was a must-get, it is Lemon Spice. One of the greatest roses in the history of roses.

Susan

Well I live 2 and a half blocks away, yet my garden is still very different to a friends who lives right down on the water. She is a rose gardener also. Her roses do well, better than mine as they do appear to have more air circulation, probably because of the ocean breezes, quite opposite to what one would think. Too bad Devon isn't here any more. He would be a good one to answer your query.

Mine are really trapped with lots of moisture, a densely treed property and a lot of natural Springs. So I guess, every situation is different. From where I am looking, waterfront is the better for roses. We are north west Pacific, so I can only imagine southern California, would be awesome........but then, what do I know - we're miles apart! Good luck!

Pauline - Vancouver Island

I have just read Jerijen's post, which confirms the air circulation. I am surprised at the roses my friend grows on the beach - she loves HT more than anything. Also another amazing factor, is way more sun, being open to the beach with very few trees, now that is big to me. Maybe though in S.California, it could be too much sun, if there is such a thing.????

Pauline - Vancouver Island

Thank you all for the input! You've got me googling and searching a lot of new information. Mildew sounds more manageable than rust, which makes me sad about Peace, one I really wanted.

I've had some experience with powdery mildew on other plants. As soon as I moved them away from the overhead lawn sprinklers (that sprayed them a little in the early morning) and into more wind, the problem disappeared. More sun/heat alone didn't solve the problem. I'll cross my fingers that this works for roses also.

For those roses mentioned that might need more heat: I have a sunny wall that bakes (can grow tomatoes year-round next to it!). Would the heat lovers (Brandy, Sutter's Gold, Tiffany) be happy next to it?

Looks like I get to rethink where I can grow roses. I was concerned that the space I had in mind would be too windy with the little breeze it got, now it's the opposite. Major lesson learned! And, great silver lining...This could mean that I can plant more roses, because I have lots of space for them in breezier parts of the property, and maybe next to our "baking" wall.

Pauline:

Sun at the beach can be a counter-intuitive proposition. Often we're overcast and damp, albeit warm, when just a quarter-mile inland they have clear skies, piercing sun, and dry heat. We're also always damp at night, even during the hottest summer days.

I was more concerned about salty winds, but now my eyes have been opened to the mildew issue, and it makes a lot of sense that this could be a big problem for me.

'Moonstone' is a fine rose, (though quite the ruster) but it has no fragrance. 'Firefighter' has much better than average rust and mildew resistance, and a wonderful fragrance. Might be worth considering.

Decagon -- Be careful with that "baking" hot wall.
We've found that a wall can reflect enough heat to burn rose canes.
We DO have roses planted next to a huge south-facing retaining wall, BUT:
1. We now plant there only roses that are heavily-foliaged, so that the canes are protected, and
2. We put wooden lattice panels against the wall, and have found that they do mitigate some of the reflected heat.

Jeri

hoovb-
Added Firefighter to the list! ...thanks.

Jeri-

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about the wall, I'll save it for the tomatoes. Since I can now consider areas with more air circulation than the original spot I had in mind, I think I found a warmer place for the heat lovers. I checked out the chinas, teas, and noisette rose families you suggested. From what I could find on the web, they seem more like large, often quite large, bushes. Is that correct? If so, can they be used as hedges? Also, is there a place in SoCal where I can see them? I visit the Huntington Library in San Marino, which has a very large rose garden. I don't recall seeing these types of roses there (though that could be because I wasn't looking for them). Before planting, it would help me to see them growing somewhere and I don't mind making a nice trip to see roses. (I have a Prius, so I don't feel too guilty about distances!)

The Huntington has in the past has had a magnificent collection of Teas and Chinas, including many very important Found Roses. They are not now, however, the focus of that collection.
You don't want to know where they are "growing," at the Huntington, because -- well -- I REALLY don't want you to take them as typical.

I suggest instead that you visit the International Rosarium at Descanso Gardens, where there is a very good collection, which is inclusive of Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes.

Also, if you get up toward Ventura County, the Stagecoach Inn in Newbury Park has a small but impeccable collection of roses, beautifully-maintained, and based on Teas.
If you are going to visit the Stagecoach Inn, let me know. We might could meet you there.

And feel free to contact me privately. Happy to help.

Jeri

I live 2 blocks from the Gulf of Mexico. We have sandy soil, very heavy morning dews, blazing hot summers and blustery breezes. The roses that have performed the best for me are
Pope John Paul II ( dozens of flowers at a time!)
Mr. Lincoln
America
Don Juan
Knock Outs
All on Fortuniana, except the Knock OUts.
Good Luck!

As a zone 10 roser I will just say that I believe living on the water probably provides more all around light for your roses (reflection, salt air, etc.). I recall seeing roses along the Strand in Manhattan Beach doing very well. I lived inland a couple of miles and had plenty of rust and mildew. But I never had 100% all day sun.
Moonstone is a no go at the beach; needs heat. Where I am now about 5 miles inland I would like to try it again.
I have the following:
McCartney Rose - just moved it to all-day sun and no sprinklers. Should do way better and it's a great rose.
Chrysler Imperial - a little mildew but the blooms are to die for.
Fragrant Cloud - same thing
Double Delight - mildew and rust but same as above
Lincoln - I think my sandy soil did this one in.
Pope John Paul II - had a little downey mildew (I guess) when first planted but now it is excellent. Has all day sun and grows in rich soil..
Secret - I had it and loved it for a short time before I moved.

Trust me when I tell you that any site on the Gulf of Mexico is the complete antithesis of any site on the Pacific Ocean.

Ocean currents make the difference, and it is like Night and Day.

Jeri

Descanso has a bigger, better collection of roses than the Huntington, though I see a lot of Dr. Huey suckers poking up at Descanso in springtime. There are a lot of Noisette climbers on the big series of arches.

The teas and chinas at the Huntington are somewhat neglected at least to my eyes and in an out-of-the-way spot on the north side of the long pergola adjacent to the snack bar/tea room.

"The teas and chinas at the Huntington are somewhat neglected ..."

**** That is a very, very polite understatement. :-(

Jeri

You guys crack me up! Looks like I'm heading for Descanso instead of Huntington come springtime.

Jeri - I occasionally drive up to SB, and a side trip to see roses is always welcome!

avalon2007 - Although Jeri pointed out that I may not be able to apply your recommendations directly to my climate, I'll pass them on to a friend on the FL Gulf Coast who wants to start growing roses too...if you don't mind.

peachiekean - Your info helped me a lot. Plus, I never thought about how some roses, like Mr. Lincoln, may not grow well in the sandier soil we have.

I've been mulling over everyone's feedback as I stare out the window at a big area of the yard that I use to grow tomatoes and veggies. It gets all-day sun, but is near the edge of the bluff over the ocean. We have a 4' glass wind screen that helps keep the wind from beating up the plants too much. Since we're on a bluff, we don't get direct salt spray from the ocean, nor sand blown in. The tomatoes, herbs, and veggies I've planted there thrived, without any mildew or disease issues. I could fit LOTS of roses into this space, without sacrificing my herbs and still have enough room for some tomatoes. Would this be too harsh an environment for roses?

I do realize that the climate on the Gulf is not the same as near the Pacific, and that the body of water nearby does make a huge difference. I used to live close to the Atlantic in zone 10b, and I can tell you that it is much easier to grow roses Gulfside 10a. The sandy soil needs to be heavily augmented, but blackspot is not nearly as bad here as slightly further south and east. I made my recommendations to decagon based on the fact that the plants could take the salt, heat and the humidity, but is salt tolerance even a consideration? Are most roses salt toerant?
thanks,
Avalon

avalon2007 - I also have somewhat sandy soil. For other types of plants, I enrich it with some good top soil, organic compost, chicken manure, and gypsum. Will that work for roses too? I'm glad Mr. Lincoln works for you...it gives me hope he'll work for me! How much overcast weather do you get? We get the May Grays and June Gloom with overcast days, every once in a while for the entire 2 months. That's caused problems for me with other plants in the past.

decagon- I dig a big hole, put in peat, Black Kow, bone meal, and composted top soil.This is the mix that is recommended by the Sarasota FLA rose society for down here. If you don't have a dry season, you might skip the peat. Your mix sounds good too. I also have to be very careful not to plant the roses too deeply. A rose needs the tops of its upper roots near the surface or even slightly exposed here in 10a. A couple of mine have died because I planted too deeply and I had to dig up and replant several more. I have read that the further north you are, the deeper the rose should be planted, but I have no experience growing roses north of S. Florida. As far as overcast goes, I guess that could be a real problem. Down here in FLA, we ain't called the "Sunshine State" for nothing! It is very rarely overcast all day long. I imagine that blackspot might be a real threat with 2 months of overcast moist weather.

A rose needs the tops of its upper roots near the surface or even slightly exposed here in 10a.

*** That would not be the case, in Southern California. But I am curious -- what would be the purpose of planting roots that high????
Blackspot is generally not a problem in California's coastal fogs, as that weather seems to be too chilly for blackspot.
If it's warm enough for blackspot -- it's too dry.
That's the difference between the Gulf Coast and the Pacific Coast. Our coastal air is cool.
Very near the coast, we wear Uggs much of the year. :-)

Jeri

Jeri-
Here there is so much aggressive fungus in the soil that covering the stem of a rose plant will rot the stem. I have been repeatedly admonished by our local rose nursery to be very careful not to plant too deeply. As I mentioned, I have lost plants this way. When they were dug up to be discarded, the part of the stem under the soil had been completely denuded of bark and was obviously girded by rot. Many other plants, including citrus trees, will also die if planted even a few inches too deeply here. Some types of plants and roses on their own roots don't seem to care how deep they go, but the roses on Fortuniana are super picky about it, at least here in S.W. FLA. The fungus problem is even worse in S.FLA. I don't know if you would have that problem in CA.

No. We don't have that problem.

But, Avalon, I might encourage you to post on the Antique Roses Forum.
There, there are several people who grow Austins and true Old Roses in Florida.
I think you might pick up some helpful tips there.
Florida is a whole different world, but there ARE roses which do well there.
In fact, it is my understanding that Tea Roses (not HT's) and China Roses grow
quite well in Florida, on their own roots.

Jeri

Jeri- I will most certainly look on the Antique Rose forum, thanks. Of course, the problem is that some varieties of roses that I really want just don't do as well here!
Question about Cal - during those overcast days, how cold does it get? Is it rainy?
Also, are your roses generally on Dr. Huey? Do your roses grow all year long, or is there some kind of a cold or dry dormant season for them?
Just curiosity questions -

Avalon -- The tragedy of humans is that we always want what we can't have.
But no law says you can't love what you CAN have. :-)

In our overcast spring weather, temperatures can hover in the lower 60's,
in fog, and sometimes drizzle.
We call it "June Gloom," and we may have it May through early July.
RAIN is rare. Increasingly rare in any season. But generally speaking,
all of the rain we're going to get falls from late November into early February.

In the past, most roses here have been sold on Huey.
Now, own-root is increasingly common.

Many of our roses, particularly "Evergreen" types, bloom throughout the year.
Teas and Chinas, in particular, generally respond to drought and heat
by falling into dormancy.
They bloom heavily during our cool, wet winter.

Jeri

Jeri-
Thanks for answering the long list of questions. Your climate is so different from what we have here - pleasantly cool, dry sunny winters, no frost; blazing hot summers with torrential downpours. We almost never have a completely overcast day, and any fog burns off before 10am. Very rarely we will have a wet winter, and then potential garden disaster. Down here the fungus goes on a rampage if it's cool and moist. I have seen some types of plants literally become mush after a few days of cool rainy weather. October can be too wet sometimes, but it's windy then so it drys out. Now I am beginning to understand why Sunset zones are more accurate than the traditional climate zone numbers. "Zone 10" just isn't enough info.

unset zones are more accurate than the traditional climate zone numbers. "Zone 10" just isn't enough info.

*** No. It isn't.
Nor, even, are the Sunset Zones enough.

You need to say WHERE you are. "Gulf Coast Florida," or (in my case) "Coastal Ventura County, SoCal."

Those Zone numbers tell you little other than how cold your winters are. Not enough.

Jeri