If 12' is your idea of huge then this vigorous shrub may not be for you. Both parents in the cross grow to tree size, one American smoke tree in a collection out here was once measured around 50' tall. A pure European smoke tree form such as 'Royal Purple' would probably work out better for you. This also has a better, more purple leaf color than 'Grace', and produces better "smoke".

i remember one near moms house.. that was as big as the 100 year old.. TWO STORY farmhouse ...

and if.. grace is a dwarf .... keep in mind.. that they have a bit slower annual growth rate.. but really ... never stop growing ....

all that said... for a small investment.. get one.. enjoy it ... learn to prune.. and if it does outgrow the spot.. trim it to the ground.. or get rid of it ... i would prefer you enjoy and kill something.. rather than settle for something that is just OK ...

ken

Thanks for that alternative smoke bush idea, bboy. I'll check it out. No, it wasn't that I thought 12ft was so large, just that I was so happy to see that it would grow above my fence line and would make a pretty screen and a background behind other shr*ubs and perennials. I guess I was thinking 12ft was as large as it got. I was afraid it would grow smaller in MA than CA...lol. Ok, so that's not the case. I will have to think about it longer.

Ken, I like your 'go for it' attitude! Being a person who is too careful at times, I do tend to try to consider every eventual problem in advance and you're right, too much of that can take all the fun out of it. [g] I have not seen 'Grace' in person, but in photos, there's just something about the color that really calls my name. I am pretty good at pruning. Not expert, but I get by fairly well. I don't mind cutting something to the ground either, if I can get someone to dig out the stump if I'm ready for a change.

Thank you both...nice to see someone here to answer a question or two...

Although a hybrid 'Grace' amounts to an American smoketree with purplish leaves. It's not a good deep purple, just an alternative to green - otherwise same large leaves and large-growing, open habit, wimpy "smoke" as the American half of the cross.

Probably not truly as arborescent as a pure Cotinus obovatus, but specimens seen here are certainly of the same general character so far.

I like the color of Grace in all three seasons. The problem is that it grew from a potted, 2' shrubby-looking thing to a very awkward-looking 14' tree in less than 18 months. I planted it in a mixed bed and it looks ridiculous. I plan to cut it down this year and see what happens.

I like Ken's attitude too.

Thanks Maureen, that is good to know. Hard to believe it grew that fast!

Since it is a hybrid between C. coggygria and C. obovatus, the ultimate size will be somewhat intermediate between the two - it can and will grow larger than the popular purple smokebush. But like those, it can be coppiced easily to maintain a smaller size. One just loses the 'smoke' effect of the flowering (which IMO is just as prolific as that produced by C. coggygria) by this method but it does enhance the foliage effect.

Mine hardly had any smoke at all. Although it is still a young tree, I would think it was large enough to be showy?

Anyway, how far down should I cut it? It looks like a freak. This is from Spring 2008, now it is twice as tall

{{gwi:243681}}

Sorry for the hi-jack Prairiemoon

Thanks

You can cut it as far back as you like, although I might just take those long, leggy branches back even with the main part of the shrub.

FWIW, that's the oddest growth I've ever seen on this particular plant :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: whack 'em back!!

When a shrub shoots up like this it is often being stimulated by more moisture than is optimal for producing attractive growth on that particular kind.

Same as with topping a vigorous tree, instead of eliminating them if you cut yours down low you will probably then have an additional number of tall goofy stems to look at - unless the cause for the bare growth is identified and removed.

Bboy - I don't water it, and nothing else in my garden grows like this. There have been other posts here on GW showing Grace growing in this same way. If mine continues to throw out tall goofy stems it will be replaced. Thanks for the warning.

Maureen,
I would cut that way down. Bush size.
There are trees all behind it. Tall trees.
Do they block the hot afternoon sun by any chance?
That growth is not normal at all.
It looks to me as if it is trying to reach for more sun light.
Smoke trees love the full hot sun. The more, the better.
They also don't need alot of water either, in fact you can kill them by over watering them.
She's reaching for something.
Trim it back nice and low, even with the other growth, smoke bush can be trimmed drastically with no ill effects at all.
THe foliage will be gorgeous this summer with all new growth, she will be pure red for about a good 2 months.

If it starts doing that again, notice the amount of shade it gets in the afternoon in the summer time from the trees growing in back of it.
I think that could be your problem.
If you can't move it, just cut it down every spring.
Wait til you see the color!

I have grace as a standard tree and my neighbor has the purple one.
I far prefer Grace and I get tons of compliments on her colors.
She starts out in spring with bright Red leaves that morph into a dark blue green in summer. then, she smokes pink. (not heavy, but it's there)
the real thrill is that she turns all kinds of orange and reds-- the most beautiful corals and peaches! starting in late summer into the fall. She is there to put on a show whenever the summer perennials are not flowering under her.

that purple one stays the same all summer and fall it changes to a scarlet leaf. Sure it smokes better, but it's not eye popping.

and I agree with Ken- get a tree you enjoy and work to keep it right sized as long as you can.

There have been a couple of threads on the topic of 'Grace's' growth pattern...one of which I started last year. I have a half a dozen 'Grace' and about 15-20 others, from straight obovatus to coggygria cultivars. None of the others, (including the C. obovatus) demonstrate the bizarre and to my eye, unattractive habit of 'Grace'. I like 'Grace' for two reasons - the largest leaves of any of the Cotinus and the incredible fall color, as lola-lemon notes above. The summer color is much redder than the purple coggygria varieties. I found that 'Grace' put out 12-15' of whip-like growth per year, whether I coppiced the shrub in winter or left it alone. whaas pointed out that I might try pruning back once the spring growth was underway (often a suggested pruning technique for deciduous trees) and that seems to have worked much better. 'Grace's' shape is still more ungainly than the others, but much better than it was.

Prairiemoon not sure how helpful this is for your situation, but 'Grace' is a relatively new cultivar and out here, at least, designers went nuts spec-ing them for all situations and then were aghast when they saw what their growth pattern was. I was told that mine were freaks until everyone else started noting the same thing. As bboy mentions, C. obovatus can get enormous, and there is something in that cross that produces aggressive growth.

I love Cotinus so take my negative comments in that light.

Sara

Thanks for the update. After the initial post I made, I decided to offer this shrub to my neighbor, who now has it growing in his front yard. It has not grown to the point of becoming a problem yet, but I will keep my eye out and offer that information to my neighbor. Thanks!

Form and foliage- my Grace is a tree form and last year she shot several LOOOONG arms out. I will cut them back in spring.... but otherwise she is nicely behaved.
I wonder if Grace is better as a standard?

Maybe so...those long arms (and I'm not kidding when I said up to 15' in one year) are also generally curved back with leaves only at the ends. I was seriously considering taking mine out until whaas suggested the mid-season pruning.
I might try doing one of mine as a standard just to see. Whichever way she's grown, I don't care much for the octopus effect!

After the leaves fell last fall I noticed 3 branches that had curled around. I thought it must have gotten hung up on itself and just redirected (like a climber). I don't mind it- cant even see the curves through the thick foliage in the summer.
If they limb up thick- I might like the architectural quality of it in winter. Could be kind of interesting.

One thing I love about Grace is that the darker green/blue/purple foliage contrasts nicely with new reddish/purple growth during the growing season.

I prune mine a couple times to keep the shrub look. Fall color shown below...which it held on for quite awhile but freezes didn't allow it to progress much.