I have the same problem, and the ones I really like are those great big ones, like Mrs. B. R. Cant and Mme Joseph Schwartz. I force myself to get smaller ones, and have some miniatures. I also have a lot of other landscaping, and that has made me limit the number of roses - I think I have around 30-35 plants, and a lot of them are still small.

Join the club.

Nowadays I ask myself, is it worth the very expensive water I have to pour on it? That helps me decide.

I have a friend that has a very small rose garden that is so beautiful. Passion finds a way. Since you live in Sacramento perhaps you can get some vicarious enjoyment by volunteering at the cemetery garden. That's what I would do if I lived there.

Welcome to the club! I ran out of space several years ago...so I built a new bed...it's already full and I'm still looking at new ones to get, lol!

You may find that not all the roses you love and have planted will do equally well in your climate. After a few years you might see that some are not doing all that well and you would be FORCED TO look for replacements!

For that triangle where swimmers might brush against a rose, the thornless and beautiful Mrs. Dudley Cross might be the perfect answer.

I've tried growing a climber against a wall that gets sun for most of the day, and the lovely Reve d'Or was dying a slow death there, looking worse every year until I had to take it out. Copious watering and mulch didn't help. The canes just fried. I'm sure climbing roses at each side of the potager would look very beautiful, though!

Ingrid

Andrea, like eahamel said, first off you eliminate the big ones. Then perhaps I would look for roses that have a narrower, more vertical shape. You'll be able to fit more of them in. I think I would take a walk at the cemetery and find the two most perfectly beautiful climbers that you absolutely fall in love with when you see them full grown & blooming - hopefully, not the biggest in which case you should only pick one. I have .17 acre and 80-something roses, but I don't have a pool or a shady front yard. I have no grass, and I keep making the paths narrower :)) For your climbers on the fence aim for the smaller climbers because the big ones will refuse to stay on your side of the fence. Polyanthas tend to be on the medium to small side. Some Buck roses stay in the 3x3 to 4x4 size even here. Don't go by the sizes on HMF. I would ask here or the Roses Forum about the actual size of roses you are considering. White Pet and Borderer stay small (3x3 or less). And as much as we love OGRs, they can be big'uns so consider moderns. And as Pam suggested, get your biggest rose jollies at the cemetery, and just think...your garden will only have THE MOST BEAUTIFUL roses in it. How great is that???

Sherry

P.S. I like Ingrid's suggestion of Mrs Dudley Cross. People really seem to love her. Also, corners of the pool deck could hold a potted rose or two - nothing big, of course. And just think how much less compost you'll have to shovel than the rest of us.

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Growing a rose on a south-facing wall will be difficult in Sacramento because of the heat but it's possible. We have climbers on a south-facing granite mausoleum in the cemetery. Renae can't take the exposure. Lady Waterlow is doing better now that we have it trained so that it doesn't touch the wall. I put up some rebar arches and keep the canes tied onto it; when we put them in place, it was a cool March day, and we were sweating because the wall radiated so much heat. You could install a trellis at least six inches out from the wall and tie the rose onto it. I have Handel on a west-facing wall and it does fine. I think it would be best to have a climber with plenty of foliage so that its canes don't burn.

We have climbers all over the cemetery, including a dozen along the Broadway fence and others over arches and structures. I like espaliering roses, training them along a two-dimensional plane. I cut off or tie up any canes that want to grow in the wrong direction.

I knew somebody who grew roses next to her swimming pool. She had a tall fence, and put minis into pots and hung them on it, and massed larger roses into corners in pots on the ground. I know another person who grows Zephirine Drouhin along a fence by her pool - it does ok in Sacramento, although some years it is a poster child for disease. It's thornless, which is a great advantage, and its canes are nice and supple for training. Crepuscule doeesn't have many thorns, either.

In general, I'm an advocate of growing roses vertically. At home, I wrap roses around tall tripods and am able to fit more roses into place, and also have roses espaliered on fences and walls and growing over archways.

I agree that volunteering in the cemetery is great way to get your rose fix without having to grow them all personally at home. After I'd been working there for a few years, my husband said "I finally get it. You get to grow all of those roses in the name of community service!" Yes,indeed. I much prefer to share the roses that I care for rather than growing them in the privacy of my own back yard. My home garden is quite neglected because it's more fun to garden with friends and share it with the public.

I'm in the cemetery most Tuesday and Saturday mornings, if you'd like to come by when I'm there either to help out or to look at the roses with me. Our collection catalog is on our website.
Anita

Here is a link that might be useful: Cemetery rose website

If I could grow them on the roof I would.

I've been known to cut down a tree or two...crape mrytles, things that didn't thrill me...not great oaks!!

too, as mentioned, climbers and vertical roses.

i have too many, and know i cram them in, and am constantly repossessing portions of the yard for more. I just scan the yard and see ANYWHERE where i could put one...you might be surprised.

and lucky you, to be in Sacramento. I would definitely volunteer at the cemetery, and i can imagine you would love the people there!! i hope to visit one day!!!

good luck, i feel your pain...any way you can get SOME sun in your front yard?? Any weed trees?? That would be where I would be looking!!

I feel for you, and I know you have a lot of company. People have already offered all the rose suggestions I had thought of.
Have you given adequate thought to companion plants? Little things to grow at the feet of the roses? Things like bulbs, hellebores, sweet violets (antique varieties to collect), heucheras, aromatic subshrubs--I don't know what grows well in your area--are modest in their space requirements, come in many varieties and are therefore good for satisfying collector's instincts, and greatly enrich the garden.
Your garden sounds beautiful. If it isn't a jungle yet, though, you haven't run out of room.
Oh, yes, and for climbing plants for narrow spaces where swimmers pass, how about clematis? Thornless, beautiful, and they complement roses.

I have to include this funny story. A friend told me about these folks who lived in a very small space in San Francisco. They planted a Mermaid that grew up to their balcony and then grafted five roses on to the top of it. That's persistance!

I like to keep climbing roses off the house for other reasons. When we first bought our house years ago we had to tent it for termites. The only damage was where a large wisteria grew up against the house. Learning from that, I do not grow plants directly on the house, but instead put the trellises 18"-24" away from the walls. This has other advantages for the roses and even for me. It gets the roses out of the rainshadow of the house. It improves air circulation, which reduces disease. It also makes tending and tying up much easier, because I can work from behind the rose as well as in the front.

Roses of mannerly growth with long flexible canes can be wrapped around a tripod, obelisk, pole, or any other narrow vertical structure. Don't try this with stiff-caned roses or roses that want to cover a shed. One is too rigid and the other too large. Climbers can be fanned out along the inside of a fence. And of course, if you have an arbor or an arch, send a rose up either side. An older, non-prductive fruit tree can hold up a larger rose as well if you have one of those. Don't try this with a young tree. The rose will overwhelm it.

If you really want to maximize the number of roses in a small garden, think up! And underplant with low-growing perennials and bulbs. There are times of the year when roses aren't doing much, the heat of summer being one. Putting other plants in your garden will give you color while they rest. Consider including plants that bloom in late summer, always a difficult time for roses.

Rosefolly

Andrea, I live three hours south of you and am anywhere from 5--10 degrees hotter than you are in the summer. At least in Sacto it cools off at night when you get the breeze from the river. Here it cools off to about 90 for two (yes two) seconds and starts to climb its way back up again.

OK, I have much smaller rose beds than you. I live in a zero lot line planned unit development and still manage to get a bit of my rose fix in.

If you like a bit of the old rose/cabbage rose look, several of the Austins will work well. I have mine against a white fence and they do just fine. In the heat of summer, they may not bloom for a bit but will pick up again and you will have blooms usually until Christmas.

I would put up an arbor or something like that rather than grow straight up against your house. Brother Cadfael has very few thorns and grows upright and tall.

I have a rebar arch that is probably 8 feet across and about 8 feet high. I have Peach Blossom growing on it (yes, it is thorny but it is pretty much constantly in bloom. I also have another rose from Ralph Moore that is finally just starting to come into its own.

Here is Peach Blossom. It is a single to double rose and very pretty. First and last to bloom in my yard.
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Here is the Ralph Moore rose whose name I can't recall. ACK! It really is very pretty. It can get up to 15 feet tall and can take our heat. Sorry it is not the best picture in the world and you can tell I needed to do a bit of deadheading.

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Sorry, but I cannot find a picture of my Brother Cadfael rose. I would also imagine that several of the other leggy Austins you could probably grow as a climber as well. I had Heritage at one time but lived in an apartment then and only had a 9' by 9' patio so I had to get rid of it as it was HUGE!. BTW, on that patio, I had Austin's Sharifa Asma, Brother Cadfael, Ambridge Rose, Emily Rose, Jude the Obscure (gets huge too), Evelyn (gets huge as well), Peach Blossom, Mary Webb and the following minis--Sequoia, Lavendar Crystal (LOVE that rose), Sweet Chariot and two fig trees all in pots!

So don't let a small space stop you from growing roses. I say go for it. What do you have to lose?

Here I go again with a Brother photo or two. Diane

I wouldn't recommend Brother Cadfael or Jude the Obscure for a small yard, but I have them both and a small yard, so I shouldn't talk. Here's the Bro and Jude. Diane

Nanadoll, I just love your pictures! The Brother is my favorite rose. So easy to grow on it's own root. I just shove a cutting in the ground and it grows! Wish I could do that with some of my other Austins. The scent is to die for! After all the hype on Jude by Heritage, I am still not all that wild about it. It gets really leggy.

Look at Kitty Belendez's garden videos on Youtube. She grows primarily modern roses, but her small yard in Santa Clarita,CA is wonderfully, almost comically overflowing and it's lovely. I enjoy her videos enormously. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLq8gQbLJA8 and there is another one for her back yard and pool.

Here is a link that might be useful: Belendez Front Rose Garden 10-29-11

That's quite a video and the roses seem to be in great shape in spite of the fact that they're so crowded together.

Nanadoll,

I love the way Brother Cadfael and Jude the Obscure look in your yard! How big are they? Do you prune them back hard to keep them within bounds?

The inspiration given on this thread is amazing! I watched that video and then, clicked on that woman's backyard. She has a pool too! She has one tomato plant, a sad one, and says that's the only non-rose plant in her whole yard! I think I would like companion plants though.

What are some favorite companion perennials that everyone is using for their roses? I tend to use a lot of native, prairie style flowers (echinacea, rudbeckia, lavender, etc) in other areas of my garden, but I feel stumped when it comes to what would compliment the various shapes of a rose plant. How will I know what shape the rose plant will take on when I am planting? Or do you care about that when you are planting the bed? Do you just plant your perennials and let it all come together and it's beautiful anyway?

I am sorry that I am so full of questions. Sometimes I think I should just hire a landscape architect for this backyard of mine, but then that person would rob me of all of my fun. Thank you for your patience. :)

andrea, when it comes to companion plants, I've tried so many different ones over the years. Many of them looked fine the first year or two and then deteriorated, faded away, became too woody or otherwise failed. Now I stick to a very few that seem tough enough, are low-care and combine well with the roses.

Sea lavender (limonium perezii) love the purple flower spikes, they make babies, great with almost any color of rose

Day lilies (the common golden ones can get too large and I've had to take some out); those I've gotten on-line in purple and other colors don't do that)

Geraniums (pelargonium) bloom almost constantly for me, extremely low-care in my hot and dry climate

Marjoram The bees love it; will get very large, just one or two accent plants are all you'll need, you'll find a few babies here and there

Repeating irises - these are great, make sure you choose complimentary colors, mine can repeat at any time (now for instance) their shape is a great compliment to roses, very low care in my garden

dwarf crape myrtle - not the bright pink one, but white, lavender and purple are great colors with roses

lavender plants - look beautiful with roses, you can't go wrong with them

Ingrid

The video is awesome. It looked like all those roses were in containers. I don't think I ever have time where all the roses in my garden are in peak bloom at the same time. Wow.

Probably can't call camellias "companion" plants, but awesome rose alternates for shade. For me my favorite companions are the ones that do the best for me in my climate. Since you're in the sacramento area, our climates are likely very similar.

My favorites and easiest are Dahlias, Geraniums, Canna Lilies, Mums, and Succulents. Irises are still new from last year, so hoping to get blooms this year, planting lots of gladiolous this year because I absolutely LOVE the look of them even though they are so short lived.. Daylilies still relatively new for me.

Also trying poppies this year, and needed some spring color so added Tulips, Hyacinth, and Daffodils. Hollyhocks, Jasmine and Honeysuckle for backgrounds/height with the vines on trellises. And put in 4 clematis last year, thought I killed all of them, but they're all getting growth on them this spring.

I

Hi Andreajp,
Thanks so much for your comments. I love those two roses, and I guess they reward me for it. That photo was taken in the spring last year, and Bro was about 8-9 X 8 feet, and Jude was about a foot narrower. At summer's end they were at least 10 feet tall. I will be pruning them next month, but not hard, just a good all over pruning with some off the top.
You don't need some kind of pro to decide on companion plants. The fun is figuring it all out yourself. It's an ongoing process, as new plants hit the market and your tastes change, but first of all, know what works well in your climate, your water availability, and in your soil. Early on, I decided what colors I wanted to predominate in my front yard (purple and yellow with accents of pink, blue, and a bit of white). The side yard where Bro is is pink. I have lots of companion plants, but some favorites are: coreopsis, rudbeckia, coneflowers, purple snapdragons ( short lived perennial in my garden--love la Bellas), hollyhocks, peonies, valerian, lavender, butterfly bush--the small sized series, hibiscus, helenium--this could go on and on. For annuals, I love African daisies and argyrenthemum daisies (these two might be perennial in your area). I gather seed and transplant seedlings from those plants that do a lot of reseeding, and this really cuts down on cost. Good luck with the companions. They are a big fun part of gardening. Diane