I know nothing about roses (am going to learn this year), but in the recent New Orleans Homes and Lifestyles magazine, they had a great article on Old Garden Roses. Some of their recommendations were:

Napoleon Rose
Madame Joseph Schwartz Tea Rose
Dr. Grill Tea Rose
Mrs. Dudley's Cross Rose
Iceberg Rose
Puerto Rico Rose
Peggy Martin Rose

They also recommend Antique Rose Emporium's website for valuable information.

Where do you live in Mississippi? I'm in Pass Christian. Pre-Katrina, I lived in Long Beach, and whatever I stuck in the ground grew. I hope I'm as lucky at my new house. Good luck to you.

Well, now, if you are anywhere in, around or within driving distance of The Pass, then you have a great resource available right there. Countryside Roses. Its owner, Lisa, is very knowledgeable and sells great plants. I would start with Lisa.

You can also do a search here on the Antique Rose Forum (search is working again) for "disease resistant" and you'll get a lot of threads with a lot of recommendations.

Wodka, its funny that you listed Iceberg because it isn't highly BS resistant. Take any list of 'no spray' roses with a grain of salt and do your own research. I heartily second Diane's recommendation of Countryside Roses. It is run by a nice lady who grows her own roses to sell (not a middle man) and specializes in highly BS resistant Southron roses. Any rose from Countryside will grow well in your climate. You may choose to order your roses from another vendor to get larger (and more expensive) plants but do consult the Countryside list when making your choices.

I agree Iceberg is a blackspot magnet in the Gulf South. Lafter is a better choice. Most of the Teas, Chinas, Hybrid Musks and Noisettes do great in your area.

The big THREE in my opinion: Chinas, teas, & Hybrid Musks.

Add polyanthas ... if you like their many tiny blooms (I'm not crazy about them, but they certainly perform well).
Add Noisettes ... if you have the room for really large roses (unfortunately I don't have the space).

Randy

I've talked to Lisa at Countryside, but she said that they deal more in mail order and she said right now her garden was a mess. (She is just a few miles from me - so I was planning on going to buy at her nursery.) She did offer to meet with me one weekend, though, so I plan to follow up with her.

Like I said, I don't know anything about roses, so thanks for the heads up on "Iceberg"; the New Orleans expert had it on her list is the only reason I listed it. Definitely will scratch it from the list.

Dan, we do live in BS h&11! I'll talk more with you Sunday about my experiences if you'd like but for the benefit of anyone else that wants to know here are a few of my experiences:
Not necessarily all are OGRs but these are some that do well in my garden but almost all do get some BS.
Lafter, an older HT is as healthy as any rose I've seen.
Belinda's Dream is virtually BS free but will ball some when it rains and the canes can't support the huge blooms.
Most Teas are fairly disease free but will get a bit of BS. Some of the teas will also get a little powdery mildew during the spring here.
Noisettes that I've grown are for the most part pretty healthy. Among the best are Blush Noisette and Natchitoches Noisette.
Chinas that I've grown all almost completely defoliate due to BS in the spring but recover when the heat sets in.
Bourbons, the smaller ones like Souvenir de la Malmaison and her sports do real well when it gets hot but will look terrible in early spring due to BS and powdery mildew. In cooler climates I understand that they ball but not here. These roses are a must in our area IMHO.

I'm sure there are others and I'll go over my list and add to it later. I just finished pruning but if you want any cuttings later when they start growing for your mister you're welcome to them.
Hamp

Hey Randy, I don't think Dallas climate is at all comparable to MS. I moved here from Dallas and I miss the much lower humidity & steady breezes. I really didn't have any blackspot to speak of in my Dallas garden. This area is a whole 'nother story.. I'll tell you what, it would really make me happy if I learned that there were some HM's that are BS-resistant here. Guess I'm gonna find out, as I have already planted Darlow's Enigma & Secret Garden Musk Climber..!

Trilogy for heat & humidity are as listed above

China, Tea, Noisette and then throw in some poly's and you have a wonderful start

Thanks guys for all the replies!

Chinas, teas, Hybrid Musks and Noisette. I love the pictures I see of roses in each of these classes, but I thought noisettes were a little tough to grow here. And is it your experience that every rose in a given class does well in a given area such as where I am?

I live in the central part of the state, but even up here every body has heard of Countryside and the fine quality roses that come from there. I wasn't sure it was back in full swing after Katrina, but am glad to here it is!

One thing about this class of rose is that it is resilient, and while affected by BS, I am told that most will survive and grow on with little or no care. I am told that is why they have survived in old homesteads and cemeteries uncared for years on end.

Hey Blush, hope I'll learn one day to grow roses as pretty as the ones you post here!

Dan

Dan, ditto, ditto, ditto. Last spring, my first with roses, I lost a tiny baby Souv de la Malmaison to powdery mildew - or was it to the fungicide I sprayed on her. I don't know, but I have resisted replacing her inspite of all the beautiful photos and lavish praise on this forum. I don't feel competent to grow her.

Chinas are funny. They do defoliate and made me fear that they're dying, and then they leaf out quickly, proceeding like nothing happened. What a relief it was the first time this happened!

I'm very sad to hear such negative reports on Iceberg. I just planted it in December on fortuniana, fearing in the back of my mind that it might be disease prone, but thinking I could spray occasionally since it's right next to 3 Hermosas (Chinas) that are also prone to BS. So we'll see. Sometimes it's just a crapshoot!

I have had Duchesse de Brabant (a tea) in the ground almost a year, and she's been a mess! Blackspot, yellow leaves, awkward growth. I have worried and griped over this rose from the beginning, hoping she'll grow out of it. But she's truly an ugly plant with an occasional beautiful bloom that faces the ground. I've been lusting after Rosette DeLizy forever. Maybe someday the Duchesse will give up her spot for RD.

Sometimes I think Blackspot was borne in my yard. It's everywhere on everything! My Belinda's Dream did wonderfully until August. Then practically every leaf went yellow and dropped off. She's standing there 5 feet tall as close to naked as she can be but just starting to show leafbuds now. I don't know whether to use dormant spray or what. Somebody help! Even Natchitoches Noisette had BS and has stayed pretty bare, starting now to leaf out. I'm just hoping for maturity!

Sherry

sherryocala,

I bought a Portland Damask rose last year and had the same thing happen. All I did was bring it home and water it. In the period of a week it was a showdow of it's former beauty and in a month was gone. I loved the "cabbage" appearance of the roses and hoped for a long and rewarding freindship with this pretty plant.

Has any one had any luck growing Portland Damask rose down here?

Dan

Dan, I think it was Jeri that said, "location, location, location". I don't think Comte de Chambord was meant for the south. Such a beautiful and fragrant rose but in my garden even with a regular spray routine it got the crud and never recovered. It met its fate with the shovel. Maybe there are other portland damasks that are better for our hot humid climate that I'd be happy to hear about.
Sherry as to your problem with SdlM and powdery mildew, I fought this problem last spring with every weapon (spray) I could find to no avail. I was reading on Paul Barden's Site about organic gardening. Sceptically I tried his recommendation for treatment of PM by spraying daily with a stream of water. Amazingly it worked like a dream, no more PM! Now if I can find such a simple solution for those darn thrips!
Hamp

sherry, I have RdLizzy and she has not yet blackspotted in my yard. In fact, none of the teas have, even next to spotty Austins.

I don't have Duchess de Brabant yet, but I am getting it from Vintage this spring.

I love my CdC, but yes, it gets cruddy. But the blooms make up for that. At least to me.

Barbara, Arkansas is a lot closer to Mississippi than your Virginia is ... right next door in fact. My family in Arkansas grows the roses I mentioned, and they do fantastic there. So, I still believe my comments might help Dan.

I hope the HM's that you are trying work out well for you.

Randy

Randy,

I appreciate you and everybody else taking the time to comment and give me you advise and opinion.

A lot of the data I have researched on the net and been expose to in the local rose group I belong to came from Texas A&M. Just recently MS. State University is once again taking steps to promote roses in our state to the public. They had a program last year called "Growing Roses in MS.". They are also doing research ar one of their research centers on new roses with J & P. They have a new rose garden on campus and a new director of gardens that has a special place in their heart for OGR and Antique roses. I am hoping they will continue making progress for our state in promoting roses and care of roses.

Blush, I believe the rose I lost was Comte de Chambord also. Such a pretty one to loose.

I started putting my roses in the ground a few weeks back. One group was in a small bed where I had them growing close to the house since they were rooted by mist propagation. I needed them to grow some more. The others were ones I ordered or caught on year-end sales at local garden centers. I have collected them now for a while and have been reluctant to put them in the ground not because of BS, PMD or thrips. Its those pesky four legged critters with white tails that think I'm the kindest fella in the neighborhood planting them such good things to eat in the yard. I have watched them with guarded dread, but no chomping yet.

I walked out this morning and noticed I had four plants that did not look so good and probably are going to be shoveled pruned. Chinas, Teas, Hybrid Musks and Noisettes seem to the class of roses that everyone agrees on, so what roses in these classes would you recommend I plant as replacements for these plants. Even though I have been around folks who know roses, I don't have a clue to which roses in these classes would be the best for our climate.

Dan

Sherry, do you have your Duchesse de Brabant in full sun? I had a Duchesse (pre hurricaine) that did very well for me, with a fairly symetrical growth habit. She would get just a few cruddy leaves (old ones perhaps?), but I never had blackspot on her. I have a little one in a pot I'm going to plant soon.

I do have the sport of Duchesse, Miss Caroline, that I planted last summer. She's doing very good and blooming already. Again, she is in full sun.

Louis Phillipe, Cramoisi Superieur, Mutabilis, Mrs. B.R. Cant, Spice, Emmie Gray (a Bermuda Mystery rose), Archduke Charles, Archduke Joseph, Don Juan, and pretty much all The Bermuda Mystery Roses do extremely well here. I do not spray.

Keep in mind that the chinas and teas need FULL, open sun, or as close to it as you can get, in order for them to do well. I have done much experimentation, and despite what anyone else tells you, they need lots of sun or you will have disease and growth issues.

Sandy

The true teas, chinas, and noisettes do wonderfully well here in north Louisiana. While I've had powdery mildew problems with many of them when young, they generally outgrow their vulnerability as they mature. Black spot resistance is good across all three classes.

The exceptions: Mrs. Dudley Cross is the only true tea among the 30 or so in my garden that hasn't prospered. I think it's likely that I just have a bad clone, though, as it does so well for others. Celine Forestier partially defoliates from BS in the fall. My puny, own root Gloire de Dijon failed to take off and never had a healthy day in its short life. Francis Dubreuil and Louis XIV are BS prone, but then it's likely that neither of them is accurately classified. Louis XIV has actually exceeded my expectations based on the negative press it gets. Eugene de Beauharnais was a complete and utter mess.

The hybrid musks have been a mixed lot, and because most of mine are growing in partial shade, I'm hesitant to comment too much on those that get spotty. I've grown Felicia in both partial shade and nearly full sun and it's definitely a LOT better when it gets plenty of sun. The winners in mostly afternoon sun have been Belinda and Darlow's Enigma, and I may be adding my young and exceptionally vigorous Danae to the list after it gets a second season under its belt. It didn't have a serious problem with BS last year but did suffer a raging case of PM in the spring. That was right after the baby had put on an enormous amount of new growth, though, so I have hope.

Sherry, I'm glad you commented about Winecup. I've wondered for a long time if it would do well here. I'm glad to hear it does. Growing roses here in pots is tough, so I figure if they are winners in a pot then they must be great for this area. Ditto for Marie Daley. I'll have to get them both.

I think trees "do" something to roses when nearby. I don't know what it is, but roses seem to resent trees even when they appear to be far enough away and in full sun. It's enough to drive ya nuts.

Sandy

Sandy, both Purpurea (Winecup) and Marie Daley have been in the ground since right before Christmas and are growing nicely. Purpurea shot out a nice hefty cane and has several flower buds on it in a spread-out cluster. I saw in one place that it's a small bush (3') and in another place it's a large bush. I think they said 8'. So who knows. This new cane is less than 2', so I don't know what that indicates. Mine came from Vintage.
Sherry

I always learn something from this forum. I can't wait to try the forceful water spray on PM. It was bad last year and the safe chemicals I was told to use were just a waste of time and money! I will definitely try the water spray route and see what happens. It couldn't hurt. In the past year, I have replaced many roses with teas or Chinas. Belinda was very unsatisfactory in my garden. THe blooms either balled or had thrip damage, all season long! Although I had many blooms, none were very pretty. I dug her up and replaced her with Thomas Affleck from ARE. I am trying to have more darker pinks and reds to minimize thrip infestation. Any suggestions for a truly short climber that blooms all year? No Austins please. Buff

Sherry, please tell me more about your 'Hermosa'.
Do I need one? Can I grow it in a container on the patio? Is it very thorny? Fragrant? Are the blooms as nicely cupped/globular as they look in photos? For some reason, I just don't see this rose being grown around here. I'm ripe for being enabled on this one, so be gentle :-)

Randy

Belinda's Dream did well for two years and then died. Some Chinas like Archduke Charles did better in semi shade with no care. Some teas like Isabella Shrunt did better with less direct sun also. Mrs Dudly Cross also did better with indirect sun. Not all polyanthas have small or non-fragrant flowers. Cecile Brunner is quite fragrant and has pretty flowers. Clotilde Soupert has beautiful pom-pom flowers with loads of fragrance. LaMarne is a better than Knockout in my Mom's yard. Feel free to experiment. I can't kill Teasing Georgia, a David Austin. Most other Austins did poorly here. I have great luck with species roses such as Cherokee, Lady Banks, Fortuniana and Seven Sisters for fence coverings. Some Noisettes do better in shade like Blush Noisette. Marechal Niel needs more sun and care. Marquesa Bochella ( Jacques Cartier) and Maggie are really easy to grow Bourbons.Penelope is a really fragrant and low care, Hybrid Musk with nice clusters of flowers. Burmudas seem to like our climate too. I am waiting to get a Peggy Martin at the Baton Rouge Home and Garden Show in March. Don't count out Knockouts, either. They make great hedges in hard to grow areas.
With good garden practices, you can grow lots of ogr roses. Some like neglect, like my Climbing Cecile Brunner and others die despite our best efforts like most of my Austins. Good Luck, you'll find a combination that works for you.

Alright, Randy, ya made me download my camera and go out to the front yard at 10pm to smell the roses on my knees. What I won't do to enable a friend. Now before you feel like you've resisted temptation, just know that these flowers are growing on an infant, 2 months in the ground, just three little twigs with a few leaves on them. This picture was taken on the 14th, and I just smelled the same flowers, so probably they were a little spent. They had a light peppery fragrance. When I got inside though, I noticed my fingers smelled peppery - black pepper but no sneezing. The photo color is pretty close except maybe the sun glare has whited them out. They also seem to have a bit of lavender in them to me. You can see the blackspot. I guess that's the Bourbon blood in them. I have 3 of them planted 2' on center in a triangle, hoping for more impact. This was the second set of blooms. I snapped off the first buds. Oh, the bloom size is a tad under 2". When they were first opening, they were very globular. Not sure if that will increase with maturity. Hope you like her. She's definitely a candidate for a pot.

{{gwi:227798}}

Hope you like her!
Sherry

"Some Noisettes do better in shade like Blush Noisette."
I don't think I could stand it. Mine is grown in full sun. Below is a picture from April '06. It blooms almost nonstop all season. I finally had to remove the pyramid because it was pushing it out of the ground and leaning over. Now its free standing.
BTW, my sniffer must be dysfunctional 'cause many roses that are supposed to be highly fragrant I can't sense a thing but this one I do. The first thing I smell in the morning as I go out the back door to the garden, brings a smile to my face.
{{gwi:227799}}

In Hattiesburg, I consider Louis Phillipe, Cramoisi Superieur, Mutabilis, and Mrs Dudley Cross to be virtually foolproof even if not sprayed at all. Louis Phillipe and Cramoisi Superieur are nearly identical and have been mixed up in commerce so you can never be sure which one you're getting. Others that do well here include Pax (one of my favorites, but not a heavy bloomer here) and the hybrid musks and the moss roses. Some modern roses that have done exceptionally well for me, but do benefit from ocassional spraying, are Veterans Honor (Preferable to Mr. Lincoln) John F. Kennedy, Radiant Perfume, Altissimo, and Betty Boop. Radiant Perfume is on some of the blackspot lists, but has done very well for me and is perferable to St. Patrick because of fragrance. Hybrid Teas do better here on fortunia root stock, rather than multiflora, if you can find them. Also doing well here are the old climber Phyllis Bide and of course the rambler W.van Fleet, which most people prefer in its repeat blooming sport New Dawn. These latter three can be grown without spraying, but will defoliate some. There is a hybrid between New Dawn and Mermaid that does very well here called Pearl Drift which is easy to maintain as a low shrub. Betty Boop is an amazingly vigorous and disease free modern that will make a huge hedge. You can see it in that form at the entrance to the Southern Mississippi Campus. My favorite Austins are The Pilgrim (a huge and exceptionally healthy yellow with classic tea sent), Graham Thomas (which others say they have trouble with, but it grows great for me)and Gertrude Jekyll (an extremely vigorous and thorny rose that responds to hard spring pruning with a fantastic display of extremely fragrant, very double, lavender pink blossoms). Golden Wings is a wonderful, fragrant, light yellow single that is healthy here. I am also growing one Eglantine, Anne of Guerstein, that has done well so far (no mildew problem yet). Also, I highly recommend Basye's Blueberry, Basye's Purple, and Westerland, all very healthy, virtually disease free roses for our area.

During the growing season i have so far not had to spray for insects. I believe that once you start spraying with a broad spectrum insecticide you will have to keep it up because you will destroy the good with the bad, and if you don't combine it with a miticide you will very likely encourage mites. So in my opinion, it is better not to start. I release lacewings and lady bugs in the Spring and have also released tricogramma in the past. That seems to take care of the aphids. I prune in mid January, except for the once bloomers, and then follow-up with dormant concentration of lime-sulfur spray. I leave the China's and Teas unsprayed because i want to leave a safe haven for my beneficial insect population. I will spray three or four time during the growing season with fungicides, usually the systemic Tabconazole, which i find to be the most effective against blackspot. I don't worry about a little blackspot and minor defoliation during the hottest part of the summer, as it is too hot to be in the garden then anyway. I do some dead heading,light pruning and fertilizing in September before the fall bloom season, and the roses recover and put on some new growth for the October-November bloom period. My roses are planted in full sun on a hillside so there is good air circulation. I have followed Peter Beales suggestion and used regular overhead watering which he claims to be effective against blackspot, and my own experience confirms that. I mulch with hay, oak leaves, or pinestraw. With hay I may have to use a pre-emergent herbicide to prevent grass seed from germinating.

Thanks for all your replies! Chinas(9) , Teas(8), Hybrid Musks(1) seemed to be the agreed upon favorite classes. Of the 40 to 50 roses you guys suggested, 18 fell into these classes most people agreed upon.

Thanks again.

Dan

Newtie, I loved your post, so thorough and helpful. I was surprised by your overhead watering. When we had a week of drizzly, misty, cloudy weather in August last, boy, did the blackspot explode. The same happened a few weeks ago. I'd love to try it, but I'm scared.

Someday I'll have to get Betty Boop. She is the happiest-looking rose there is, I think. Too bad you say she's huge. I just saw Pearl Drift for the first time tonight. Very pretty. I'd like to know more about her.

Dan, I just know there are more than 18 "A" list contenders here. I think you need to look again.

Sherry

I wanted to share some info some members of our rose group found out about at the ARS Mid Winter conference late last month. The meeting was hosted at MS. State University.

There was a study on roses done there at MSU to see what roses would grow good in our state. The study ended back in the 90's and over 1100 rose plants were used in the study. 121 were listed as heritage roses. You can go to the MSU Cares website below;(http://msucares.com/pubs/bulletins/b0999.pdf) and look at MAFES Bulletin 999, or use the site below and link across from the link page.

Dan

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy link to MSU Rose Study

Sherry, sorry I didn't see your Hermosa photo until now. It's very nice & shapely, I like it a lot. And good for a pot too, sounds great. Thank you for going to so much trouble for me!

Randy

I'm surprised nobody has posted on this thread for so long.

Anyway, while knowing which general classes of roses are best, it's just as important to consider the specific individuals within those classes.

The most successful rose I grew while in Mississippi was the Cherokee Rose (Rosa Laevigata). Second in vigor and health was the yellow Banksia. Third, I suppose, would be Rosa Fortuniana, which I planted (mislabeled by Bracy's, as usual) thinking I'd bought the white Banksia. Fortuniana is a hybrid of white Banksia and Cherokee.

I've also had spectacular results with Mermaid and Fortune's Double Yellow. And while the endlessly touted 'New Dawn' was a bit of a disappointment, the once-blooming parent from which it sported, Dr. W. VanFleet, was a disease-free giant (I measured some thirty-foot canes!!!).

My family's 'official rose' is Silver Moon, a big, disease-free old Hybrid Wichuriana. My Great-Grandmother bought one during her glory days as one of the richest women in the Delta. After the Cotton Panic of '25 decimated her plantations and vaporized the banks in which she owned stock, our struggling family would make cuttings from that original plant, as they established their own homes. A big, pushy, loud church leveled her home in the Eighties (purchasing it with promises not to, of course...pathological lying being that denomination's other salient trait), and bulldozed her gardens. But that rose's progeny lives on, from River Oaks to Mountain Brook. Today, a generation of budding gardeners is making cuttings of those Silver Moons, for homes from Mendocino to the Isle of Palms.

I also grew up with another probable Wichuriana hybrid that seems to have been 'Gardenia'. Lemon-Creme blooms, tea fragrance, apple-green foliage, totally free of disease. Dorothy Perkins is a Wichuriana hybrid, which, while prone to a dusting of surprisingly-attractive mildew, is otherwise fabulously healthy and wonderfully easy to root. I think I've seen Dorothy's deeper pink sister, 'Debutante', naturalized in the hedgerows, along roads leading to Natchez. Anyway, the Wichuriana class, while once-blooming (except for New Dawn), are fabulously healthy, and mostly immune to the occasional cold snaps which complicate things down south. Dr. W. VanFleet, BTW, is also a Hybrid Wichuriana.

Before we moved up here, I was falling in love with what was sold to me (at the Greater Belhaven Farmer's Market)as the non-climbing form of the Polyantha, Clotilde Soupert. Not a trace of blackspot; continual bloom; wonderful scent; petal-packed, cabbagey little blooms, fading to a nice, neutral fleshy-pinky-offwhite; blooms well into early winter; GOOD SHADE TOLERANCE: what's not to love?

An aunt in South Carolina passed this little mnemonic along to me from a rose lecture she'd attended: "Polyantha Noisette likes her Tea in a China cup." That sums up, pretty well, the classes of antique ever-blooming roses best for the South.

Walking to class at Tulane, back in the days when it was still safe to be a couple of blocks lakeside from St. Charles, I'd pass rundown Uptown Victorian houses with ancient Tea roses out front. Can't tell you the names, but the old teas (and very first Hybrid Teas) develop a quite pleasant and substantial architecture. They'd cheer me up, blooming well into December, on basically neglected plants.

The Hybrid musk with which I grew up was 'Eutin'. My Grandmother had her two out beneath some Pecan trees. Even with the shade and the sap (and without pruning), they bloomed all summer. I remember a fragrance which traveled far from the plant, although the plant is not listed as being fragrant. The Growth habit is upright and awkward, though, and you will have to prune a lot. Eutin could once be spotted in humble gardens all over Mississippi.

Personally, I've grown the Hybrid Musks Cornelia and Vanity. Vanity has a very open growth habit, shocking pink blooms, and healthy foliage. Cornelia matures into a huge mess of a shrub, with plenty of blackspot, but also plenty of vigor. The fragrance is up there with Hyacinth, Winter Honeysuckle, Frangipani, and Lemon Blossom...it's that wonderful. One spray will perfume a hospital room or an office. Grow it in your Kitchen Garden, where its big, messy ever-blooming self won't be an aesthetic disaster. Or plant it in the front yard (as I foolishly did, at an apartment building I owned), and spend all your waking hours pruning it.

Plan9, what an interesting post. It's great that you mentioned the Wichuriana Hybrids. I have Francois Juranville. With 3 springs behind him he's apparently still too young to show me a big spring flush yet, and the flower thrips seem to like him.

I agree with you about Clotilde Soupert. She is a superb plant. Mine are blooming now, and the pink is back in their blooms with the lower temps. I have 2 bushes and a young climber.

I'm going to add Vanity to my garden this winter. I love the color and the reputed health and shade tolerance.

You must have had a huge property to accommodate those humongous climbers. I recently took out R. Fortuniana. I had dreams of it climbing into my oaks, but after 3+ years and some wayward tree trimming that removed his support I realized my backyard is way too tiny and I was tired of the messy look, so I said goodbye to Fort.

Thanks for sharing all your knowledge.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Thank you, Sherry! And thank you for recommending Francois Juranville. I just googled around, and love the photos I found of it growing in Virginia (not too dissimilar to our new Oregon climate). Looks like it keeps its leaves...the primary requisite for a rose, before anything else is considered, IMHO.

I grew Fortuniana in a clump of smallish Bamboo. That gave it support, and made for a nice effect. But no, that was not a huge property: only a double lot, 120 by 120. Must be my Napoleon Complex again, having big roses. The accompanying photo shows the usual sort of mess I make, trying to have everything, all at once (although, in my own defense, I will say that this was the compost corner of the property). The rose shown was mislabeled by Bracy's (comme d'habitude) as Cramoisi Superieur, although it clearly is not. I think it's some sort of Hybrid Musk. One big Spring bloom, and the new owners say it's giving them some bloom in Autumn, now. You can see slender shoots of Fortuniana weaving through that composition, along with leaves from the Bamboo. In Spring, it's as if the Bamboo were blooming. Quite a nice plant association. And the young docs who bought the house say they think the Bamboo is suppressing the rampant nature of the rose.

The roses I listed in the previous post are the ones that did well. The roses which were failures outnumber them by a factor of ten.

Interesting that you have Clotilde in both bush and climbing forms. A comparison of the two forms would be most informative.

I think you'll like Vanity. It's much more of a Chinese rose than the other Hybrid Musks I've seen, and should come into its own in Florida. I loved the fragrance, which, to me, was classic 'Tea Rose'.

Darlow's Enigma, Vanity and Lavender Dream have been the best hybrid musks for me. Lavender Dream repeats very well, that's a bonus! All are growing in bright shade, 4 hours of sun at most and still hanging onto their leaves!
Vanity reaches far and wide and has a bunch of things growing underneath her-- the Fairy, a rhodie and a big clump of autumn fern!
No luck with Secret Garden Musk rose-- not much growth or bloom. I'd move it-- if I could get to it. It's behind Basye's Purple and Sea Foam, not sure I'd survive the attempt to get thru THOSE two!

Chiming in...I second most of the recommendations. I've been growing roses here in the lowcountry of South Carolina since 1992.

My current no-spray list: Knockout, Louis Philippe, Lamarque, Jaune Desprez, Bon Silene, Silver Moon, Cl. Cecile Brunner, New Dawn, Belinda's Dream, The Charlestonian, Champneys Pink Cluster and a few other noisettes.

Of the Austins, Teasing Georgia did well in one of my no-spray beds. It resisted black spot until late August, but even then, it kept about 80% of its leaves.

I have pretty good luck with the Bourbon climber, Mme. Isaac Periere, and have bushes in two different gardens. It does get blackspot, especially on the lower parts, but it also keeps about 80% of its leaves. This grand lady is so vigorous, it's able to outgrow the spot.

idixierose, I was intrigued by your mention of Teasing Georgia. So, I did a google image search, and came up with a huge specimen in California, grown by forum member jerome. Wow!

And so nice to know that the Noisettes actually grow well in their birthplace (the SC Lowcountry).

barbarag_happy, your experience with Vanity seems to have been the same as mine. It's the most 'open' growth habit imaginable: but in a good way. I thought of it as a very linear Chinese painting on silk. When we sold the building where I had mine planted, it was interlaced with Buddelia, against a clipped Leyland Cypress hedge. In that context, the openness of the plant was an advantage.

Here is a follow up to my comments above of several years ago. I am in Zone 8b near the middle of South Mississippi. Our winters are mild, seldom dropping much below 20 deg. F, with very little, if any, snow. Summers, by June, are hot and very humid.

With regard to the roses I mentioned previously, Eglantine grew vigorously several years than died (I think it was heat and drought). Radiant Perfume died. I think it was the main course for a subterranean banquet, but a rose with that name deserves to die. Betty Boop, after several years without much trouble from blackspot, changed her tune. I would not plant her again. Of modern roses -- besides Verteran's Honor that I mentioned previously, the following are doing well with very minimal to no fungacide spray: Elina, Chrysler Imperial, Golden Gate, Pax, Basye's blueberry and purple. I don't think I mentioned Dublin Bay previously. That's another modern I've had for several years now without disease, and it blooms like crazy. Ditto the OGR, S.d.M.M.

I'm not enthusiastic about most Austins, as they are disease prone in my garden, and what is the point of trying to reintroduce old rose bloom shape and scent into a modern rose unless you can improve on vigor and disease resistance? But I make an exception for The Pilgram, Graham Thomas, and Gertrude Jekyll. The latter is a more vigorous version of Comte de Chambord (a G.J.'s parent) and likes to be pruned hard in the winter. I have both C.d.C. and Jekyll. They are almost identical except for the better health of the latter. (So Mr. Austin has got at least a few roses right.)

If you're, for some reason, tempted to plant the white Banksia, don't! Plant the white fortunia instead --better rose, longer bloom. Although the latter has a few thorns its not very thorny, while of course the banksia has none. (the yellow banksia is better than its lutea mate.)

A very good OGR tea for here is Hume's Blush. Said to be the very first tea introduced in the West --excellent foliage, strong bloomer, no disease. So far, it seems to rival in health both Cramoisi S. and R. c. mutabilis which are two of the most dependable roses for the deep South.

Even though Moonlight is a Hyb. musk, I did not have good luck with it on a West Wall exposure. Sparse bloom and some powdery mildew, which I have on no other rose. I removed it and replaced it with Darlow E. Too soon to report on that one. Juane Desprez, a rose with several names depending on how well it does for you, continues to thrive and amaze as a West Wall Climber.

Golden Wings died, and I'm not replacing it. I think it might prefer Siberia. I still have alive, with at least one bud too, the alba, Königin von Dänemark. This is a once bloomer --once in a lifetime. Mine,sent to me by mistake, bloomed beautifully its first season here, years ago now. It was so spectacular I've left it alone thinking it might eventually prove to be a twice bloomer.

When all is said and done, it is hard to beat a W. van Fleet climbing into a deep and dark Ilex cornuta cum Fig in May. If there is anything more beautiful than that, I don't know what it is. It's a reason to put up with the mosquitos, cockroaches, humidity and ignorance.

In middle GA my best Antiques/OGR's: Maggie; Mons Tillier, Mrs. B. R. Cant, Mermaid (5th year,huge), Ayshire Splendens (enormous now in 5th year), Reve de 'Or, Westerland, Old Blush CL, Moonlight, Charlestonian, Altissimo, Cramoise Sup. bush and CL, (climber has prettiest blooms) Louise Phillip, Archduke Charles, and just planted last year and doing nicely, Mary Washington, American Pillar, Francoise Juranville, Peggy Martin, Paul Transon, Jaune Despres, and Clair Maiten, and Silver Moon.
Jane