Carrie,
Heirloom ships newly rooted cuttings.
You should have received instructions with the roses to first plant them in gallon pots until they grow larger. This allows the roots to mature and you to give it a little more care than you might if it was planted in a bed.
I strongly advise you follow those directions to give your plants the best chance for survival.
If cared for properly they should grow into healthy specimens.

Yes indeed - you must babysit these vulnerable little sticks until they grow into the larger sized garden plants you can buy elsewhere for the same amount of money!!!

LIR

carrie, I got my first order from them about 6 weeks ago. I too was sad to see such tiny plants....you know that feeling you get when you see a premature baby....kind of sad and hopeful all at the same time. right after they got here I went out an brought home a large lynn anderson that was in need of TLC and she gave black spot to everyone here including my new heirlooms. they lost all their leaves but now are looking great with new leaves sprouting everywhere. I am so excited by how well they came through it. I will say I felt happier getting these small plants than when I get bare roots.

michelle

If you plant them straight into the garden it helps greatly to place something around the plant so it does not get stepped on. I have a Jude the Obscure from Heirloom that is currently eight feet tall and wide. just because the plant is small now pretend it is full size and give it nice full size hole, at least eighteen inches wide and deep.

Lance

Carrie,

Heirlooms plant tend to be very small but they grow like gangbusters. I've purchased quite a few from them in the last few years and have never been disappointed with their performance. I think they sell top quality plants.

I believe my roses came with instuctions to plant them directly into the garden and that is what I did. I figured that they knew their roses better than I. The roses grew and bloomed all summer and were stong enough to survive my zone 5 winter even in their first year in the ground. I'm sure that your roses will grow three times the size that mine did since my growing season is only four months long.

I would say that you should hang on to the roses, follow Heirlooms directions for planting them and see what happens.

You can always contact Heirloom and share your concerns with them. I'm sure they stand behind the plants that they sell.

Good luck to you and remember to post some pictures of the roses when they finally bloom.

Cherrie

I have ordered from Heirloom for a number of years. I have had my best luck with their bands by potting up in gallon pots and putting a liter coke bottle with the bottom cut out over the tiny band. It keeps it warm, humid, and gives it a good start. Later in spring, I will plant them in the ground or move them to larger pots. They have varieties I cant get anywhere else, and it is fun to watch them grow. Sunita, ordered in December, is really doing well, the others are not taking off as well, but still growing. Good luck!
Judith

Although I had great success direct planting my Heirloom bands, I would follow Karl's advice if I was planting in Arizona. I can't imagine these babies lasting too long in your kind of sun and soil.

I found that the bands quickly caught up to larger bareroots by the end of the first season. The picture below is Rose de Rescht in August following spring planting. It was over 3 feet tall and wide and produced a first year sucker child.

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If you are wondering why there are no buds, it because of a relentless midge attack. Sometimes I think the bud-aborting midge help my roses grow faster!

Canes on the own root bands are always thinner then pencil.
You can't compare canes on the grafted roses and own root bands. This is just not a fair expectation. I mean bands from any vendor, not just Heirloom.
I order from Heirloom 2-3 plants every year for many years and always had good result so far.
They catch up quickly and outperform and outlive grafed plants for me.
Olga

I've ordered from Heirloom before and was happy with the plants.

Carla

Hmmm, thanks for reminding me. I should place my order from Heirloom. The plants are small, but they are healthy and vigorous. :-)

Cheers,
Michelle

Carrie,
I've never ordered from Heirloom but did get bands from Vintage and from Sequoia one year. I planted them out in the garden and 75% of Vintage's died, 25% of Sequoia's died. It was an awful experience, considering that these were expensive and that 100% of the other roses I planted that year, either bareroot or in gallon pots, lived.
Since then I've started rooting roses, and I can tell you that a newly rooted rose is very vulnerable to dying from any kind of shock. I've had to move the roses up to bigger pots gradually before putting them in the ground. On top of that, they need to be babied during this period.
If I ever order bands again (and I might since there are a lot of roses that only Vintage sells) I will keep the roses in the 4" pot they are sent in until I am sure that the roots are really strong. I want to see roots in the bottom of that 4" pot filling up the pot before moving them onto a bigger size. Only when I see a mass of roots will I move them up to a gallon. Once they are in the gallon, many varieties take off and can be put in the ground with no worries.
I know that this is a lot of trouble, and feel free to ignore my advice! But I learned it the hard way and maybe you don't have to.
As a final note, you literally cannot see a difference between the roses that were ordered as bands and the ones from Antique Rose Emporium that were in 2or3 gallon pots and it's been less than 2 years since they were planted.

Thanks for all the advice. I am thinking as Karl said (and a few others of you mention too) to pot these up in gallon containers. They will have to stay in the containers through the summer because it gets so hot here (we can get up to 125F), I will not be able to plant them in the garden until late fall of this year (2007) because of the heat, but maybe that will give them a chance to grow through the summer. I will really have to watch them in the summer if they are in containers because they will dry out quicker then if they were in the ground in the garden bed, thats the only problem with that but, maybe after this summer they will be big and strong and ready for the big rose bed.
I did get a sheet of instructions they do suggest that the roses should be planted in the ground, they also ask to please follow there instructions so they can be guarenteed. To get the guarantee of replacement they ask that you follow there instructions to the tee. Will they replace them if I plant them in the containers, even though I really don't think I will have a problem, but who knows???
Anyway thanks again,
Carrie

The first time I ordered from Heirloom, I received the plants in late April or early May (which is somewhat late for planting any rose in my zone much less a barely rooted one). I planted the barely rooted sticks directly in the ground, and none of the seven plants survived the summer..

The next time I ordered from Heirloom for the fall delivery. Received the plants in late September or October. I planted them in 3 gallon containers. By February, they were ready to plant in the ground, and all of the roses are doing very well (one year).

I agree with what others have suggested that you should repot and get the orrts better established before planting in the ground. The only other thing is, for your zone you might want to time your delivery for fall. That way you get 4-5 months in the pot and it is not in the summer.

Good Luck,
Glenn

The

I used to order from them when they had a wonderful selection of old garden roses but it's been a while now for me. At one time they had all kinds of old roses not offered elsewhere. Now they only have a handful of old roses and they seem to be concentrating on old fashioned looking MODERN roses. :-\

Carrie, I see that you are in 9/10 AZ. If you live in the Phoenix area, you have to go to Baker Nursery in Phoenix. They have great roses. All of the roses that you ordered from Heirloom except one, is available at Baker. Right now they have thousands of bareroot roses in stock. They are all planted in 5 gallon containers and everything except the minis and tree roses are $14.95 each. If you belong to an area rose society, you will get a 10% discount.
They will even send you a list of available roses and hold the ones you want until you can pick them up.
I will only order the roses that I can't get elsewhere from Heirloom, they have a beautiful catalog but I am not into babysitting roses during our hot summers.

Carrie, you paid alot of money for these roses. I would follow the planting instuctions that Heirloom gave you so you can get your money back or replacement roses if these don't grow. I don't know what your soil is like or what you usually do when planting roses but I would give them a little help and plant them with Miracle Gro Rose Soil or something.

I buy all my roses as bands in 2 or 4" pots and plant directly in the ground after I let them sit for a 3 or 4 days watered in their little pots they come in and acclimate to being in my garden. My little bands came thru 117 degree temps a few weeks after planting beautifully, all I needed to do was give them a little extra water.

You've got several people posting here that've gotten roses from Heirloom and have planted directly in the ground as per their planting instructions and have grown great roses by their admissions. Others say they've done taken theirs and have done great in pots, it's what people are used to doing that works for them.

This time of year you've got several months to get the roses well growing before your heat starts. If they don't make it, take the replacement roses and pot them up.

Don't worry about the size of your twiglets from Heirloom ! Some people say a little plant like that grows into a superior big bush better than a grafted rose does. I think it depends on the variety IF both are not infected with virus. Sure you can have instant gratification now, but make sure your grafted rose is on clean roots. I hate digging out big mature bushes of varieties I love because they are just now showing virused leaves. I have not been dissapointed with any of my heirloom or vintage band sized roses. Yes I had to have patience. Yes I had to take extra care. But you know, I love knowing that every year that passes, thoes plants are getting nicer and nicer and that's why I keep on buying from them.

Depends on the variety of rose on how it will grow, Ive ordered from them before when they had somthing I wanted and some take right off if thats their nature and a few others have struggled. It's one of the reasons I don't like bands but thats the way with many nurseries now, They do carry a good variety and what they have sent has always been healthy.

" Do you order from Heirloom?" No, I do not. They are too expensive for such tiny plants and shipping is not a bargain either. I would specially restrain to order roses from them that are widely available in large sizes for less.
I was tempted though by their Magnificent Perfume.

I have not had things shipped by them. I have driven the hour and a half and picked them up so I can pay in cash to keep under the husband radar. I am not the most patient person and I'm only guaranteed to be in this house for 3 years so I don't have the time to start with them so young. However, I do get the ones I can't find elsewhere. I planted mine in the ground as instructed. I have gotten a few small blooms from each of them. I haven't winter protected them at all. So far so good. Not a trace of disease and they all made it through our huge 65 mph wind storm a couple months ago fine (although the Paul's Himalayan was stripped of many of it's leaves). They are only a couple of feet tall except PHM and Penny lane at 3 feet. I'll be curious how they do this year.

The person's suggestion of doing something to show you where they are is a good suggestion because my kids have tramped a few and my husband dumped a load of sticks on my awakening (I only discovered months later).

My two cents.
KariLei

I've been ordering from Heirloom for years and the hands down best way to grow them is first transplant them into a gallon pot. Keep the pots near a water source so they will get plenty of water. I usually transplant them into the garden within 2 months and by the fall I will generally have grade #1 roses. Another benefit is you will not have the scarring from transport on the canes or roots associated with the grafted bare root roses (which I order plenty of also). If you can be patient for about a year you will have bigger, healthier, more floriferous roses than if purchased grafted or potted at a local nursery.

I received two roses from Heirloom today: Precious Platinum and Mme Isaac Periere. I was shocked when I saw the size of the package; it looked like something you would receive a poster in--- a tube. I thought there could not possible be a rose plant in that. Well, there were actually two! The "canes" on the Mmme Isaac Periere are really just twigs and the ones on the Precious Platinum are not much better.

It makes no sense to me to spend 14-19 dollars for a plant you have to babysit for a year when you could be starting with a big, healthy bareroot off-the-bat--- many of which nowdays are on their own roots as well!

That being said, I'm not really disappointed that I ordered them; they will be an interesting lesson in gaining experience. I would still order from them if they had a variety I just have to have and can't find anywhere else; otherwise, I will stick to J and P and Edmunds, especially Edmunds.

If own-root roses are so superiour, then why is it that most roses are grafted these days? I mean, why fix something that is not broken if own-rooted plants are better?

I only purchased from them once. My first time ordering own root plants instead of bareroot nursery plants. I had no previous experience to compare to, but can imagine if I had started with some of the other vendors who ship large plants I would not have been impressed!

Mine went directly in the ground, a nice huge hole with lots of amendments. All my roses grew quickly, and New Dawn was most impressive as a climber growing from a twig to 6' large plant in one season.

My CA summers are quite brutal, not 125 but hot hot 100-110 with occasional 115, and strong winds. It's more dangerous for me to leave plants in pots because they can fry so easily here.

I do make a little cage out of chicken wire to protect them from getting trampled. I just stick 2 slim bamboo sticks to keep them in place (the kind used in houseplants) and can enlarge the cage as the plant grows.

Good luck!

If you never ordered own roots bands before your first time should be a surprise, Heirloom or not. In my experience the size of their roses in the last two years is comparable with Vintage and Sequoia. So it is not Heirloom issue, it is that you where not ready to the band size. I personally have no issues with bands, I actually strongly prefer them to Dr Huey grafted roses from J&P or Edmunds. In my climate they just do better. Multiflora grafted roses (Pickering, Hortico, Palantine) is a different story. They perform as well as bands for me but can produce a full grown bush faster.
Olga

In cooler climates, plant them in larger containers that get sunlight on the pot. It warms the roots and they grow quite nicely. I keep them in a very small bit of water - the roots grow downward and in a few months or towards the end of summer you can put into the ground. IN warmer climates, you can probably just plant them immediately. I usually sink the band for about 4-6 weeks tho, just because I'm worried about the tiny roots.

But Heirloom's plants are just fine. The smallest are those that come from Sequoia - just a little twig with a hair off the end as a root. But those grow nicely too.

You're OK.

While I have bought many plants from Heirloom years ago, I no longer will. I'd say 1/3 or my purchases were mislabeled/misidentified, and 3 of the most conspicuously virused plants in my collection came from them. I won't buy from them anymore. Good luck, I hope they are better about such issues these days.

Heirlooms roses are fine. Yes they are small but are very healthy and vigorous. John's (the owner) hybridizing program has produced some magnificent roses that you can only get from him. (although I think some nurseries have picked up a few of his minis and shrubs). Louise Clements is one of the best shrubs I've grown (and I've grown many). Planted it in a gallon pot for 2 months and put in the garden. Had a hefty grade #1 plant by fall. Takes a little more effort but the effort is worth it for plants that are hard to get.
Michael

I live near Heirloom and every year they have a 1/2 off sale. So, I peruse their catalog and go then. But, I keep it at a minimum of 1 to 2 plants because it takes 2 to 3 years for them to grow up. You have to be very patient. I only buy the roses I can't find anywhere else or Heirloom-bridized roses. It is fun to visit them and tour their gardens. You see people enjoying all of the roses, they get excited and then go to the purchasing area. Usually they walk past the small twigs in 4 inch containers and ask where the roses are for purchase. Ha! You should see their faces (WWWWHHHHAAAAATTTT?) It takes some getting used to. People have told me that there is a difference in own root versus grafted, but I personally haven't noticed that yet in my six years of rose addiction and 40 roses later. I still like Heirloom!

I got my Buck roses from them last year. All but one have survived this brutal up-and-down weather, and the one that didn't was my fault; I planted it in too low a spot and it root-rotted. If I can sweet-talk DH into letting me put in a bigger rose garden, I will order from Heirloom again.

My neighbor who grew few roses but was constantly asking me if the bees had pollinated her roses, because they all turned red, was finally convinced by the Heirloom catalog (at my prodding) to order from Heirloom. She gasped when she saw the plants. I walked her through the process of upgrading pots. Five years later, those beautiful roses are up to the 6-ft fence smiling in the sun (mostly Bucks and Austins) and she could not be happier. The bees have quit pollinating to make then turned red and she is a firm believer that virus that Heirloom has vaccinated their roses for is what turned all her others red. Some days it is just not worth chewing through the leather straps but at least she likes Heirloom and no more red roses in her pastel garden and we are all happy. Incidentally, she had no freeze damage to her roses this past weekend and yours truly did (must have been that red rose virus thing).

This my first purchase from Heirloom. It's a Sombreuil. This was taken this morning and it is only my second spring with this plant. I stripped all the leaves off it's first winter, but didn't do ANYTHING to it this last winter and we had horrible frosts this year. It was all of 5 or 6 inches tall when I received it. I love it.
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Patricia,
That was a funny story.
Michael

Hi,

I've ordered many times from them, but since we have this horrid wind this time of the year and the temperatures get quite high, I ALWAYS put them in WHITE 4 to 5 Gal pots and gave them a bit of fternoon shade for the first season. AZ can be deadly on oun root roses the first year unless they are pampered. Use good potting soil with about 1/4 peat moss added, they will suprise you!

Jan in Tucson

Well all the Heirloom roses are doing just fine and leafing out really nice in the 5 gal pots. I did lose a Hortico rose though called Stephanie Diane, I ordered this rose because it is my daughters name. When I received it it was kinda dry and I thought I could get it to grow,( I should of called them). The Hortico roses started leafing out but then it stopped and died. I am going to call them on Monday ( to busy today had to go to Doc). I guess they might replace it or I will just buy another. I planted it also in a 5 gal pot.
I am really happy with the Heirloom roses they are growing like gangbusters.
Thanks all,
I will order from them again next year.

Carrie

I tried Heirloom myself this year because the roses I wanted to get were either not carried elsewhere or they were sold out.

Good thing I was forwarned here on the forum to expect small plants or I would have really freaked out. The box of six roses they came shipped in was smaller than the one rose box from Ashdown that I got afew days ago.

That said, the plants do look nice and healthy. Many have buds and two have open blooms.

I was lucky enough to get a Braveheart from rosesinny here on gardenweb after I ordered from Heirloom so now I have two. One huge one from rosesinny and one really small one from Heirloom. Then I got Black Baccarra and Deep Secret HTs and Hot Tamalie and Black Jade Minis. The minis are blooming. I really like the flower on Hot Tamalie, quite striking.

This spring I not only ordered once from Heirloom, but I decided on a second order too. Some of them are still in the pots they came in but I got others planted in the ground. The really interesting thing to me is to see these tiny plants that Heirloom sends making big buds and blooms. I have a bloom on Deep Secret right now and it is just a gorgeous flower, love it. One on Black Baccara is about to open and that looks like a winner to me too! Both of them are in the ground planted all ready to grow.

I ordered a few Roses from them last year. What a joke. They were little twigs that should have been grown at least another 6 months or so before being sold to paying customers. I'm no stranger to mail order Roses or other plants so, I feel well within my rights to warn others of my bad experience. There are much better Companies out there, High Country Roses to name one. I was so pissed last year I even left negative feedback for Heirloom on the Garden Watchdog website.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heirlooms rating on Garden Watchdog

I received my roses from Heirloom yesterday. While they are small, I knew to expect that. Honestly, I don't think they are that much smaller than the roses from Roses Unlimited or Ashdown although the pots are certainly smaller. Lawrence of Arabia even came with a bud on it. I don't know that they would be my first choice to order from again but I am happy with what I got.

Rita, my Deep Secret from Heirloom celebrated its third birthday this month. It is as big as the roses grafted onto fortuniana that dwarfed this poor pitiful thing when I put it in the ground. The roses on fortuniana have probably lost their grafts by now (In this bed where I have to constantly ad soil onto soil) and the barely visible Deep Secret is as big as the Moonstone (fortuniana) planted at the same time. They do grow, don't they.

I love Heirloom. Louise Clements and Sunrise at Heirloom are two of my favorites.

I sure hope it grows fast. I added a bunch of Red HT's based on reccomdendations here and Deep Secret was one of them.

I think it would be extremely frustrating if one was just starting out with roses and the only thing to plant was those tiny Heirloom bands. For me, it really did not make that much of a difference as I have planty of other roses in my garden for me to focus my attention on and to provide a show while the little Heirloom guys grow up.

Today I was looking at the roses I put in from Heirloom earlier this spring and was amazed at the amount of growth. By the end of the summer, you are not going to be able to tell they were put in as tiny twiglets. Good thing too as next spring I plan to order more of their Clements roses.

I just planted mine directly in the ground too, I am not into potting something up when I would rather plant it.

I've been very satisfied w/ my roses from Heirloom. In spite of them having to come all the way across the country, they have all arrived healthy. One of the ones I ordered last spring (2006) is now 6 ft tall!!! I planted them in the ground directly- but my climate is probably a lot different than yours- in the 80's and 90's all summer and very humid. I am getting together an order for fall from them now. Brandy

I have tried growing the own root versions of hybrid teas and floribundas. I have come to the conclusion that as a general rule they just don't work for me and I will not buy them unless there is just no other choice and they are the only thing available. I just don't think that the root systems are strong enough on most cultivars to adequately support the growing bush above ground.
I realize that is not the most popular position to take, but for me it is the sad truth.

My bands from Heirloom have taken longer to start growing and blooming than most of my other roses, but they're doing pretty well now. Burgundy Iceberg has a lot of buds on it and has already bloomed once. I just cut a bloom from Lawrence of Arabia which has the most lovely peachy-pink color. Rhapsody in Blue has been the slowest and is only now showing a bud. I put them all directly into the ground as I'm not very good at taking care of pots. So far I'm happy with them. I'm still experimenting with own root vs grafted. I'll have to see what happens after a couple of years.

John,
I'm with you on this. Unless I can get them in early April, it makes no sense. They just do not have the root structure to make it through the winter season if I get them any later than that.

I can't believe this thread is still going, I posted this in January. January is our time to plant roses so that is why I do not order in the fall. We plant in January and prune in January, there is no harm in planting in the fall but it has to be late, late fall, it does not cool down here until the end of October.
Anyway an update on the above Heirloom roses I ordered. I went ahead and planted all of them in containers. It is very hot here right now 110F, I have to water them everyday. My Heirloom roses are doing fine. In March I went ahead and planted 2 of them in my big rose bed, Brandy and Royal Highness they had grown quite well in the containers so I thought they would do ok in the rose bed and they are doing fine. The others I left in the containers. I did have one problem which was a bummer I lost Champagne, gosh is was a pretty rose. I did call Heirloom and they told me they would replace it this fall so that made me happy. I can plant it into the ground when it gets here because I am sure it will be around November by the time it gets here and our weather will be just perfect. In the temps that we have here in the Arizona desert I am lucky I only lost one. I never have lost a bareroot rose one I purchased in a container that is planted in January because of the heat, but these little babies have to be watched closely in my climate.
Carrie