You have to understand how roses are propagated for commercial production, starting with one original seedling.

The original seedling is grown up. Budwood from that is budded onto rootstock to make perhaps 10-12 plants.

When those plants are large enough, they start harvesting budwood from those, which are likewise budded
to create more plants.

If the rose is chosen for introduction, the same process is replicated over a few years until at last they have a
large enough number to offer the variety for sale.
This process will take about ten years.

If the original rootstock plants are virused, that first 10 plants will be virused,
So, likewise, will every subsequent plant grown from them be virused.

Thus, the only NON-virused plants will have been the original seedling (which may well have been lost along the
way) -- and any that may have been heat-treated
("virus-indexed").

So if you want a clean version of that rose, you must ask vendors whether or not their plants are from
VIRUS-INDEXED stock.

Jeri

Knowing what the rose is might help.

For most of the 20th century, the standard way the big breeders introduced a rose was that they first grew the seeds out in a greenhouse. If they judged the rose to have potential, they budded a few eyes onto their standard rootstock, and grew out maybe half a dozen plants. At this point, they trashed the original seedling because they had no use for it. If the budded roses grew well, and met their criteria, they'd bud up a few more, and test them until the decision was made to either trash the whole variety or introduce them.

Given this, if all the grower's rootstock is virused, then everything is virused. Rooting a cutting doesn't magically clear up viruses. Heat treating can do that, but it's time consuming, expensive and doesn't work on everything. So it's tried on the big name varieties, and maybe a few others that nursery people particularly like. However, cleaning up the entire inventory isn't going to happen.

It's been mentioned as a particular problem with Boerner's floribundas. It wouldn't surprise me if any mid-century big American breeder introduction that hasn't specifically been cleaned up is only available virused. That's the way they were grown and introduced.

Most of the HTs sold by Pickering are not virused, at least not visibly. A lot of them came originally from Europe and have been successively budded onto clean seed-grown rootstock, instead of cuttings from virused rootstock plants. Or else they got budwood of American varieties early, before they were corrupted. They discard plants that are visibly virused. J&P has made an effort to clean up virus in recent years, with some success. Virus-indexed budwood is now available for a great number of varieties, although it is not foolproof.

Michael, I wonder how you obtained your info., would you mind sharing. It is good to know. I can understand how mass production could hinder everything being clean.
What is involved in "indexing".

Carla

One thing many people don't realize is that a rose may be virused, and show absolutely no visible signs of the disease.
It can show up after YEARS in place, when conditions are right to trigger the visible signs.

No vendor should say that their stock is clean unless it has been tested. The smart customer will ASK.

Here (below) is an article that should explain a lot of it to you Carla:

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Virus & Indexing Article

Thanks Jeri.

Carla

UC Davis maintains a large # of roses that have been virus indexed. Roses Unlimited is trying to use their budwood for commercial propagation. You can also purchase budwood from UC Davis. http://fpms.ucdavis.edu/index.html

Newbie question:

What are the symptoms of virus? How can I tell my roses are virus-ed? Does the virus spread or kill the roses?

Sorry but I have now clue on this topic.

FJ

Leaves showing typical symptoms of virus:
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Jeri Jennings

Baldo Villegas keeps a terrific web page of insects and diseases, link below. Jeri showed photos of rose mosaic virus (RMV), there is also ring necrotic virus (Prunus Necrotic Ringspot Virus), I can't find photos at the moment.

Here is a link that might be useful: Baldo Villegas' Bugs and Roses Home Page

I purchased tropicana and angel face from vintage - VID - virus indexed. And I notice a HUGE difference in the quality of the blooms. Esp. the tropicana coloring. The grafted ones I had purchased prior had faded out coloring.

My "heritage" grafted, showed the virus markings only after 3 years of growing. But after 7 years it is BAU, still growing strong and vigorously. Blooming well.

It is worth seeking out a VID in a variety you like.

I was wondering this for a while now and especially since Patrick's post on Reine Violettes. Most of my Bourbons and Hyb. Musks were from Roses of Yesterday and Today. They have been good plants in the past, but are not as vigorous as they once were. I got a pink pillar from them and when I had to move it, it had made its own roots so I cut off the old Dr. Huey roots which were now a thick woody knob. The rose foliage immediately showed the mosaic pattern even though I had never seen it on the leaves when it was on the Huey roots in the old location. Now it is SP'd. Are the roses from Antique Rose Emporium on Huey rootstock or own root? I need to replace a number of OGR's and was thinking of buying there.

ARE is own root, as are Chamblee's, Ashdown, Vintage, Heirloom and Countryside.

ARE's roses ARE own-root. But that has nothing at all to do with whether or not the plant is virused.

An own-root plant, grown from a cutting taken from a virused plant, WILL BE VIRUSED.
To find out if a vendor's roses are virused, ASK THEM.

The only acceptable basis for a claim of freedom from virus is that they have been tested, and tested negative.

Some vendors can/will tell you where their clone came from. Others can't/won't. If it originated with ROY&T, there is little chance of it being virus-free.

Jeri

Sadly, the Daybreaker I got from Jackson & Perkins has Mosaic virus. The rose bush is pathetic and the blooms are few and far between.

One virused, all virused? I guess we can conclude that J&P is not the place to purchase this rose, right?

Ronda

Always ask if the stock you get is indexed. A friend, Dr. Malcolm Manners indexes stock but can't remember every vendor he sent stock to. So always ask. Even if they are own root, if the plant comes from virused stock, it will be virused.

I have MME Paul Massad which is now over 10 years old. I was so disappointed to see it crop up with mosaic virus this past summer. I had planned on taking bud wood from it, but have now decided differently.

I don't know what J&P is doing NOW, but a very few years ago, all of their roses were budded on Dr. Huey -- (as were almost all in the U.S.).

DEFINITELY, if one of them is virused, all of that cultivar are virused.

Mme. Paul Massad was int. in the U.S. by Arena, and was also budded on Dr. Huey. All of those will be virused, unless some has been "cleaned."

ASK. ASK. ASK. Never ASSume.

Jeri

I never thought it was a big deal until I saw the same plants with no virus that I grew from small starts. As they say, seeing is believing. My dilemma now is do I choose to replant with Bourbons or English type shrubs or both. The repeat wasn't that good for me out here with the Bourbons.