Here it's a dreary day, having poured down during the night. I've gotten bad about paying attention to the weather forecasts. All I know is that somehow by Friday we're squeezing in THREE cold fronts. I wonder how that will work out. My paths need blowing SO badly. I continually think to myself I'm going to get the blower, but ha! Saying the words doesn't get it done even though it's such an easy job. My red camelia japonica that grows in a pot due to my at best neutral soil has one flower on it. It bloomed in November. I didn't know it would bloom again. Yesterday I really admired my Duquesa bush. It is so lovely and shapely about six feet across and four feet tall, hugging the 90-degree turn in the front sidewalk perfectly with lots of pretty, fragrant light peachy flowers. She is such a winner! Alas, poor Le Vesuve is a ratty version of itself with one large (1" diameter) cane dead and not much happening elsewhere. Methinks he is saying goodbye. Dare I think of a possible replacement, a big one since it's in the round center front bed? I feel I'm on the razor's edge of being a gardener or not being a gardener, continuing the garden or not continuing the garden, not knowing how to proceed. On the walk to the mailbox Hermosa's bright pink flowers always catch my eye right before her rangy, nearly naked canes do. Poor Darcy Bussell and SDLM are surrounded by weeds, and the driveway bed which has not been tended at all since May is a foot high with Bermuda grass thanks to my semi-abandoned neighbor's yard. I was startled a couple of days ago when I saw that the grass was blooming big whitish single flowers. Ahha! It wasn't the grass but rather Souv de St Anne's, unseen except for her blooms. So pretty. I don't even go out for the mail every day, so I barely know what's going on out there. I do think if I could just get the litter blown off the paths in the back I'd be happier and more confident about the future of it all. Poof! All done. Sherry Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Addendum to my first post: add dog roses the the pest shrubs. I may keep a couple of these if I find I can keep them cut back to reasonable form and dimensions, but they have a tendency to grow octopus canes and sprawl all over the surrounding area, flattening their neighbors. And DH has reminded me of some plants of hawthorn. Suzy, glad to hear from you (everybody else who's interested, too), and I want to make a request: could you give me the botanical names of the plants you talk about? In many cases I don't know the plants, or may know the scientific name and not the common one. Some of my gardening is conducted in Italian after all. If you need the botanical names of any of the plants I named, let me know: I know most of them or can look them up. My basic idea is I think similar to yours: I want a woodland, slightly prettied up with appropriate plantings. I'm leaning toward native plants just because I know there's a good chance they'll grow, which in thin dry clay in shade is a major consideration; also there are plenty of nice herbaceous plants among the local flora. And I want a natural look, to employ a much abused word; I mean I mostly want plants that look as they could be natives even if they aren't. Shrubs are difficult. I want some low-growing shrubs in particular, not too showy nor too plain, and like the thought of evergreen foliage, which is almost completely absent in the local flora. This might be my chance to grow the box my soul longs for, and which is so hard to site in my conditions; and mahonias seem to like it here. I have M. aquifolium in the shade garden above the woods and it seeds itself about a bit, which is slightly alarming. Sarcococca should do well, and also Daphne odora, the only one easy to get, though it seems to need some clay under its feet: I lost two babies down there, one when the locust crashed and it ended up in sun, one that went too long without watering. All these will probably need some digging with a pick, and possibly some clay brought in. A shrub/small tree, native, that I thought of last night, is Cornus mas. This is modestly pretty in spring and might do very well along the drainage; and now that I think of it, Viburnum x burkwoodii which I have planted in various parts of the garden, tough as nails, fragrant, and handsome. Also yew would do well, if I want a column of evergreen here and there. Holly?? It's a relict species from the glacial era that grows wild here and there in the province, though not in our immediate area. A handsome low groundcover is Ruscus hypoglossum, something like our native R. aculeatus, butcher's broom but not prickly and more orderly in its growth, and very tough. Similar but taller growing is the related Danea racemosa which also does fine. I plan on keeping Vinca well away from my shade garden: too messy and invasive. Now that I think of it, how could I forget hellebores? They would seed beautifully, too. H. viridis is local and handsome, and the H. orientalis types would look at home. Let me add epimediums to the list of possibilities. I'm not thinking of roses (much), as there's not much sun for shrubby kinds and the canopy is too weak to support massive ramblers. Alas. It's not that I haven't weighed the possibilities. I think we're in about the same place in our plans: cleaning up and thinking, and starting the first plants. You're propagating on an ambitious scale compared to my few plants dug up and potted, and I suspect are going to have your woodland garden whipped into shape considerably faster than I am mine. I need to mark my baby oaks; I notice a lot of seedlings coming up, possibly in response to the cleaning up of the past couple of years. I can happily guard the oaks for posterity knowing that I have flowering ashes and maples to enjoy in the present. Silver maples (A. saccharinum) are commonly planted here, too, but with our worthy native field maples (A. campestre) I don't need them, especially since silver maples have no fall color to speak of, while the field maple can turn a good yellow. There are one or two less common local maple species, and one, I believe, colors well in fall (very rare in our native plants): I need to find out which it is, and whether I can get it (A. opalus, I think). I share your admiration for the plane, but it would be out of scale in our woods, which are sadly starved and low-growing. Paula, about the black locust, yes, it's a nitrogen fixer, but it also tends to break and fall and sucker madly. I like my trees to stay put. Since the great locust crash in the spring we've been weeding it out of the entire shade garden, and will be continuing to do so, apparently, for a long time to come. The black locust has considerable merits and is a beautiful tree, but it's not what I want here. You did remind me, though, to add laburnums to my list of possibilities: native, nitrogen fixing, and beautiful in flower. My vision at the moment is actually a modest one: I see a little woodland, with paths and steps, sunlight falling through the trees, a fallen trunk to sit on in the shade. The trees are common and of modest dimensions, such plantings as exist are humble but growing in beauty and variety as the ground becomes richer in humus and is freed of weeds and brush. The mere fact of shade is important: it's been hot and dry here for two months now, and to do down there and sit under the trees is a pleasure and refreshment in itself. Rock outcroppings, moss growing in the cooler parts. Once we get the place cleaned up I may become more ambitious. Oh, last note: I doubt I would consider tulips, which grow well here, because of the boars. Though now that we have wolves I hear their populations are dropping. Perhaps in time we'll achieve some sort of ecological equilibrium. I hope the wolves gobble down large part of our rapidly growing roe deer population as well. Melissa

Another slant on the open containers, but I can't say that it would work in your temperatures and really am not suggesting you try it unless you had a few seeds to experiment with - this really may be climate specific. When I started winters sowing those things that require cold treatment - many perennials, trees, shrubs - many, many years ago and before I even had a computer, I got the suggestion from an English gardening magazine article. My climate is just about a mirror image of England, winter temps will almost average (day/night) that of my refrigerator that I'd been using, and I started out sowing as done by English gardeners, pots topped with grit or even fine aquarium gravel, no covers. I still do it that way (but don't WS annuals or vegetables). There is no possibility my pots will dry out over winter, I've never watered one yet....coastal Washington. The grit keeps gully washer rains from dislodging seed. Potting soil with adequate drainage prevents water logged pots...and I do sow in nursery pots. The only issue I've had are with sparrows sometimes disturbing the pots, and one year a chipmunk surprised me by planting sunflower seeds for me - a length of chicken wire across the top of groups of pots discourages both. If you lived someplace along the I5 corridor between Seattle and Portland or west of there to the ocean, I might suggest you try the method for hardy plants - but clearly you do not :)

I have a small woodlot in my back yard consisting mostly of mature maples but also beech and black cherry. It's true, they suck the soil completely dry an hour or so after rain. For plants with shallow root systems it's death. Andlike others said, if you look for shade species you will do a lot better. Maybe add some humous to the soil and some mulch to the surface to hold a bit more moisture around the plant until it's established. Ferns tend to need moisture but there are some hardier ones that should do well in your dry conditions since they are very much like mine. I find the two that do best from the start are "Christmas" and "Hart's Tongue". Planting them in groups of 3 so that the foliage will eventually create a small blanket and surrounding with a light layer of mulch will help keep the moisture but you will have to water. The next year they will be less dependant on you for water but you might still need to water on dry bouts. Osterich Fern is a bit more sensitive but if you can keep it alive through the first year it will adapt to the drier conditions. they are nice because they can grow to 3 or more feet tall. In our first year with them they grew to 3' so I'm hoping they will be even taller this year. Ferns are nice too because of their movement, it makes the woods feel cooler even when it's not. Some other things I've planted and have grown well or are growing naturally here are: Woodland Plants Bloodroot Canadian Ginger Bunchberry Virginia Bluebells Red Trillium (grows there naturally) Blue Cohash (grows there naturally) White Trillium/Grandiflorum (grows there naturally) Dog Toothed violet (also called Trout Lily...grows there naturally) Jack-in-the-pulpit (grows there naturally) Wild Violets Wild Columbine False Solomon's Seal (grows there naturally) Solomon's Seal Painted Trillium Ferns Christmas Fern Hart's Tongue Fern Maiden Hair Fern Man Fern Lady Fern Osterich Fern Royal Fern Sensitive Fern Cinnamon Fern Shrubs Witch Hazel Serviceberry Dogwoods (red osier and alternate leafed) Hazelnut Redbud Pin Cherry Viburnums (forest edge but still don't need sun) Elderberry Highbush Cranberry Additional Trees Sugar (and other) Maples Bur Oak Red Oak Tulip Tree Hickory Black Cherry Beech and many more... use keyword "understorey trees shrubs plants ferns" in a search and to get more specific use your hardiness zone or even more specific your native region if you want all "native to your region stuff". This is kinda funny but I am an exotic hamster breeder and always felt bad that on cage cleaning day I was throwing away several cubic feet of wood shavings so I decided to use it as a material outside the edge of my woods to control weeds and alien species from coming into my yard. I've just spread it in a path-like area all around the edge and it's keeping out the weeds just dandy. I could also use it as an additive to the soil to help hold moisture but I don't because it has seeds in it from the hamster's food and I don't want them growing in my little woods. If they grow out of the pathway I will just pluck them out as they come up but it's so thickly carpeting the ground that I doubt anything will germinate, it' will likley just rot first. Do you compost? If so, you could add well aged compost to your planting areas or make a compost tea out of it to water the plants with. That would kill 2 birds with one stone. Barb Also 6a but right on the edge of 5b zone