Michael said: > ...You can often induce branching by pinching back. Sometimes basals or major laterals are too strong. They outgrow the rest of the plant and terminate in an awkward cluster, then you cut them back and waste a lot of growth. But if you remove the growth tip early, the shoot should stop and produce laterals relatively close to the ground, resulting in more bloom and a denser plant. >More and lower branching can be desirable with leggy narrow hybrid teams, with climbers that need their legs clothed, with shrubs that make 8' basals, etc. >It doesn't always work,... Michael, you end up offering great tips all the time! Any experience in doing this with Reine des Violettes? It's possible that we have one that this tip was tailored for. But I don't know; I've never done anything like this, except for what our rabbits decided to accomplish for us... too many times for the health of one of the roses. We received our Reine des Violettes as an ownroot plant that had been 2-gallon container grown outside and then trimmed some on the roots and top before shipping still dormant from California in April in a small amount of soil. It had two fairly short thinish canes. We potted it into organically rich soil in a 3-gallon container and within about three weeks it was leafing out nicely. But no noticeable laterals or new basal canes that early. Next, it was transferred completely intact into excellent soil in the ground here around the first of June. It has continued to look good and now has put out about a 10-inch new, VERY ROBUST, basal cane that is still growing nicely. No flowers yet, but I'm not really expecting any until next spring; I just want to give it the best possible start. I've read that it's a generally a good idea to leave off any pruning (or, I'm supposing, pinching back too?) until a rose has been in the ground longer than this one has, so that's the way I was inclined before reading this thread. (I do know not all roses behave the same way...) We're slightly more inclined to want a bushier shape than a climbing shape for that spot, though it's not out of the question that we could put an obelisk there for it if it really only had a few terribly long canes. On the other hand, this pinching back sounds like an easier solution toward bushiness than, say, looping the long canes into circles pegged back upon themselves, which is what I thought I might try if the rose got too long-legged for the spot. Assuming we still favor a bushy shape by the time the season is over in November here, how about pruning all three canes back a few inches next February when the Forsythia are blooming? (That's assuming it continues to have just three canes, which, judging from comments, might be enough to expect from that rose for one year's growth?) Or would a pinch back work much better now on that new cane, while the tip is soft? Or is Reine des Violettes one of those roses that really don't appreciate losing leaves/canes at all, especially while trying to get established? Thanks for any tips. Best wishes, Mary

What I've noticed with own-root roses is that what you see upon arrival will continue to grow as if it was still back on the mother rose before the propagator snipped it for rooting. So since this usually means a terminal branch was used for propagation, growth from it will continue as though it was a terminal branch. But in the meantime, it's feeding the roots. And when the roots get enough food to generate a new shoot, that new shoot will be more like what you'll see on the mature rose. And, as Jeri said, don't worry about planting an own-root rose too deeply. When I started my garden, I planted them in the native soil, then built raised beds around them. The result was that 6-8" of cane was buried. After a year or so, I started seeing roots being generated along these canes just a few inches below the raised surface. Roses aren't like many other shrubs or trees in that they will adjust to being planted deeply -- by generating roots further up. At this point, fiddling with it may cause more harm than good. Just maintain whatever depth you have. I know others say not to keep mulch at the bases of roses because this will invite disease, but I don't think this is the same thing as burying canes in soil permanently. Mulch will certainly keep things moist, but perhaps isn't "soil-like enough" for roots to form. Here, roots formed on the buried portions of cane only after I added composted manure and used coffee grounds to the mulch layer, in effect creating a "mulch" of soil-like compost with the texture of potting soil. :-) ~Christopher

HI Joe I'm popping into the discussion late, just to make some comments about relative hardiness. You're warmer than I am by a zone or two, so take that into account - still, when you're looking for hardy long-blooming roses having ones that are hardy a zone or two beyond you can help. Obviously Christopher and madgallica are going to have feedback more pertinent for your specific location. In my experience, Souvenir de la Malmaison is particularly winter tender and even in your zone will need some protection in the winter. Apparently SDLM has considerable tea rose in its heritage enough that it's a real wimp in cold. Consequently I put my last (maybe 5th) try at SDLM in my most protected and pampered spot along with 6 or 7 teas that I can overwinter in zone 5 with pampering. SDLM didn't even think about coming back with maximum protection in my virtual zone 6, so I'd put her marginal in even zone 7. She'll want protection even there. Kronprinzessin Viktoria, Marchesa Beccella, Rose du Roi (the one from Burling), and Clotilde Soupert are all winter hardy for me without much effort. I think La Reine might be in a better spot, though it failed to overwinter in a part shade spot once so far. For repeat bloom, the best is Marchesa Boccella - she's going to bloom with the frequency of the others you mention. For me, KV and CS are mostly spring and fall bloomers, and my Rose du Roi is too new to repeat much at all (just approaching its third year). Reine des Violettes laughs off the cold and is reliably hardy, just be sure to get the real version of this one (Burling has the real RdV for instance) as there's a once-bloomer sold under this name as well. As others mentioned, teas in your climate will take quite a bit of work but are marginally doable at a much reduced state. If you want to indulge for your own sake and fuss (as opposed to your mom's), the more hardy teas for me have been Maman Cochet (probably the most hardy), Mrs BR Cant, Duchesse de Brabant, and Madame Antoine Mari. Georgetown Tea made it several years as did Rainbow. None of them bloom profusely but they're a novelty in zone 5 and as such fun for me. Cynthia

Everyone was so helpful that I just wanted to give a quick update on the Duchesse's progress. As many of you suggested, I didn't prune her and made sure that she had plenty of water. I also gave her a dose of alfalfa tea (thanks gagalzone8! Jeri, unfortunately no horse manure around here). After four months of almost no growth, she has really taken off over the past week or so. She still has a long way to go to reach her past glory, but this is very encouraging. Many thanks to all. Here she is now.