Jane - Experienced growers in the Minneapolis area say that 3-4 nights in the mid-40s AND below 70 during the day are beyond okay for any orchids except cyms, which can take close to freezing, if protected from frost.

Since 9/11, when we had way too low temps, & I brought all the 'chids in, we've had only 2 nights that weren't okay for all of them. It's driving me nuts to have only the cym, Phrags, and Masdie outside since then.

The downside is that bringing them in or putting them out means running the gauntlet of 2 half-flights of stairs plus several rooms plus 3 dogs and 3 cats and the danger of the cats escaping when the patio door is open. Stresses me to think about it.

Inside, everything seems to be spiking, in sheath, continuing to bloom, etc. right on schedule, but I just *know* they'd do better outside.

This may not be the growing experience you're looking for, but it's what I'm doing this year so far. Whitecat8

Virtually everything seems to be either in growth and several are in bloom or spike.
My Pleurothalid types are totally lovin' this!!:~)
New growth everywhere and some in bud or bloom!Yay!
My more tropically(sic)ones...not so much!;~)
Lots of growth, things in sheath...but something has to change real soon.
My Cat.violacea collection is going into the oven for the night!;~)
Or, maybe an electric blanket and some hot tea(manure of course!).

It's about 1:30 am and I just came back in from turning on the sprinklers in the lower garden in an attempt to save it another night!
Current temps are below 30F and still droppin'! :~(
As I still have everything(orchids and many other tropical type plants) crammed into the house, I can't even get to the fireplace!:~0
The house is about 60F and I guess that I'll have to do something soon!
The Boxers are not even talking to me...just giving me dirty looks from under their blankets!

Between trying to deal with far too much livestock going into winter, I'm still really trying to harvest as much as I can.
My butt is draggin' so badly, I think I'm going to get splinters in it! ;~)

If I have time(that's doubtful), I'll see about a few photos!:~)
If nothing else, I gotta see about getting to the fireplace!
Hmmm...maybe a machete!

Scott

Sederea needs cooler temps in order to do it's thing 4-5 months where day temps are 50's-60 and night temps upper 30's- 40's Neos also experience a few months of the same. They are putting out new growth so they will stay out, then go to the unheated shoppe until the holidays. I am going to try to move their winter time frame up. My living area will be too warm for them.

Scott, Scott, oh Dear Scott! 30º? Do you really want to run that risk? Your plants are so gorgeous! Here's a tweezer, get that butt going! Forget the livestock they won't croak it but your plants could. Run them dry.

Jane I have the same question about the BLC thing. You usually get our weather a day or 2 later. The forecast is to orchid friendly for us until Oct 5 and then it plunges

Jane, I don't know how you do it... with having only 8 phals and all ;-) (that post made me laugh) For me it's In or out, on the bus or off. Howard has turned us all into "light devils" but there is a limit. Every time you move the 'chids they are at risk IMO. Not only from breakage but well would you like to be moved around so much? and the time.. akkk! I won't truck plants

I have cloud forrest guys still out and the neos, sederea, a couple dens ( amythestoglossum), BLC, (No clue but it's growing and pink) Encyclias and Stinky Baby (hoping it would croak it, but its going strong). My house is about to stink to high heaven of L'parfum de "funeral home", non-tropical paphs, Twinkle and Oncid "ortho-novumorichum". OHG said to keep the ortho-novorichum cool now. The Twinkle has put out new leeds and the stalled ones are advancing. Vanilla is out b/c I have no place yet to put it. I don't really care about it but it seems to be doing fine.

I am runing everything painfully dry. Wet & cool = rot here in Chicago even with the strong winds.

Jane I know you are the role model for the under-waterer so you should be fine outdoors. Leave them in or out. Why do all that work? We have had 70's day, up to 80º and some evenings have reached mid 40's but only for an hour or 2. Usually mid 50's. A really nice swing. The stuff that has just gone into spike/bloom are in. Intergens, Tenuifolia, a piece of BLC, bellina. I kept them in full sun for as much of the day as I can get outdoors. (massive obstruction now ). If the plants haven't produced by now, they won't. So time to come in,

I sort of go by S. Florida conditions. It can get a bit chilly in Dec/Jan. Then it stables off. If they handled it there, they can handle it here. My plan is all in by next Friday (with the exception of the asians and 1 low temp, wild collected lycaste)

More CFL's will arrive on Monday and I am off today to buy racks.... here goes the electric bill.

Jane, check out Santa Barbara Orchid Estate, where they have been doing experiments leaving catts out in frost for several years. They have a label "temperature tolerant" that means they can take 40 easily, and even below. "Cold tolerant" means they can take a couple of degrees of frost.

Many of the species catts are rated. You can extend their list a bit if your plants have a parent which is on one of their tolerance lists.

Rule of thumb, Laelias are likely to be temp tolerant, so Lc's should be okay, esp if they have L anceps as a parent. Dialaelia is temp tolerant, too. But some Blc's and Enc are temp tolerant as well.

One tip I heard was to put the in & out plants in plastic milk cartons or some such w/ bottom drainage, leaving plants in them till they're inside for the winter. That way, at least you're hauling only milk cartons and not dinking around w/ single plants. Whitecat8

claritamaria: Is that Oncidium ornithorhynchum that you're referring to?

As to the opriginal question: Remember, a lot of your standard unifoliate Cattleya species come from some pretty impressive elevations in the andes. Granted, not so high as some of the Masdevallias, but temps into the low 40's and even mid-upper 30's are readily tolerated by them, as long as there isn't frost. Bifoliate Catts tend to be lower elevation plants that will suffer more from cool temps (especially C. violacea). Also, the purpurata-type Laelias and Rhyncholaelia digbyana (which accounts for most of the B's in your standard-type Blc's) will happily take temps down to about 35, as long as the day is warmer and there isn't frost. L. anceps and relatives are TOUGH and will take below freezing for a couple hours all the way up to the 100's. I could almost grow L. anceps outdoors, here, if it weren't for the occasional 20-degree snap.

The usual Slcs and potinaras and such that have lots of Sophronitis in them will LOVE a cooler dip, and if they decide to flower when it's cooler, but they still get ample light, you'll have fuller, larger, redder flowers. The diference between a summer flower and a fall/winter flower on a Soph coccinea or such can be really astonishing. Also, anything that might have some rupiculous Laelia (L. briegeri, milleri, lucasiana, etc.) will not mind a cool down, either, and again will bloom with stronger colours if they set buds when it is cooler.

I can't really speak to anything with Diacrium in it...I've never grown one.

-Cj

hello, everyone, thank you for that all that detailed info re temperature needs. I was beginning to worry and thinking about either starting to heat the sunroom or bring in the catts. now i will wait - the nights here is around 50 F and days 70+.

sue

I brought in the phals today. There just isn't enough early and late sun any more, just the hot midday sun, too hot without shade.

I've actually burned a few the last few days, after a whole summer outdoors without burn. So they're in for good now.

Catts and oncids are still outside. They can take the midday sun, so are still getting about 6 hours of sun.

Temps are in the 80's-mid 50's.

WC I swear we don't live in the same zone sometimes! It amazes me that my weather is closer to Jane's than your's in terms of temps

Cj yes it is Oncidium ornithorhynchum. Running joke. No one can spell that one without a peek or 2 :-)...I don't even bother anymore.
PS thanks for the info on the gallery post!
Clara

That's it! They are all staying put. Low 40's tonight, but bright, cool sun all day. I was away this weekend and just got back. Everything seems to be growing, spiking and budding. I have never had such a year, that's why I want to leave them to the last minute.

Cj, thanks for a great amount of info, I am so lazy about looking at their background, Sort of, grow by feel. Too chancy right now with the temps. I have some Blc's with sheaths and I can see the buds. I have one large one with buds and want to be cautious. For some reason, I thought Potts and Slc's were warm. I'm only leaving the plants which are getting ready to flower outside. The rest have been brought in.

Phals have been moved in and out because they are spiking and I hate leaning spikes. Love them to grow straight up. WC, I like the milk-container idea. I only have 8 phals (Clara) and could probably carry two per hand, although I'll probably drop them on their heads. My Phals have sunburn, but they always do and I don't really care.

The big rangy Catts take up all my space, but I kill myself for their flowers. This Spring, many need dividing. I just don't have anymore room. All the oncids, big and small are staying out. Twinky has spikes on every pbulb, and you are right, even the broken ones have begun to branch off. I have one ornithorhynchum (copied your spelling, Clara) big plant with no spikes. Still growing outside the pot.

I think the weather will be like this all week. I await a weather report from Chicago. Scott, follow Clara's advice. You are making me nervous...

Thanks all,
Jane

Another thing to remember about cooler temps is, if the plants are close to the house, the house gives off heat at night and the temperature is a few degrees warmer. Same holds true for under a tree or on a back porch or near a wall, etc.

Jane: What can I say, I'm a species nerd. But honestly, best advice I can give is to look at the background of the plants to find what they need. Even if you are dealing with a NOID, if you can get to the general type of hybrid (standard cattleya (corsage orchid), japhet-type (which involve more bifoliates), etc, etc) you can look to the species that are a foundation of that TYPE of breeding to look for culture.

Clara: I can spell it off the top of my head, but again, I'm a species nerd. I had to look up how to spell Bealleara, this morning... LOL! Nine times out of ten, species info pops right into my head but I spend a few minutes going "ahhh, uhhhh" when it comes to hybrid stuff off the top of my brain.

Then again, my last name is Maciejeski, so complicated spelling has never been an issue for me. I also know how to pronounce Phrag. czerwiakowianum (and I didn't have to look up spelling). One of the few advantages to being a pollack.

-Cj

LOL Cj and Jane you are making me laugh! Right on Jane! Leave them out or in. Our big temp plunge comes on Sunday. 58º high from 80's. I am peeling them off the roof little by little this week. That's it; parked for winter.

Nerds are quiet welcome here. :-)) I am only at geek level and thank God for spell checker but I need the Orchid edition. Spelling lessons welcome! Can you phonetic "czerwiakowianum" ? WOW! That's the best one yet! :-)

I hope Scott has been ABSENT because he is moving his collection INDOORS! a-hem Scott. No whining if they freeze! Frozen meat works, 'chid-cicles don't!

Clara

Dear Teacher
Please excuse Scott from life today because he has to move his orchid collection
Sincerely,
Scott's GW Mums

Sure can, Clara! First off, I have a personal policy I stick to with honorific names. Botanical latin is not REALLY subject to all the same rules as regular latin, ESPECIALLY when dealing with plants named after people. So, Phrag. czerwiakowianum is named after a Pole named Czerwiakow. Now, since the plant was named after a person, I like to think they would like to hear the plant name sound like their name. As such, Brassavola (named after a spaniard named Brassavol) comes out brass-ah-VOLE-ah. The dipthong 'cz' does not exist in latin, so there isn't a way to make it sound latin, anyway. In Polish (and several other slavic tongues), 'cz' makes a 'ch' or 'sh' sound, and 'w' makes a 'v' sound, so czerwiakowianum comes out to CHUR-vee-ah-KOVE-ee-AY-num or SHER-vee-ah-KOVE-ee-AY-num.

A general rule for descriptive epithets (ornithorhynchum, for example breaks down to "like the beak of a bird" (ornithos = bird, rhynchos = beak/nose from greek)) is that latin, technically, does not have hard vowels. Of course, botanical latin has a lot of contradictions to formal latin... Anyway, 'ornithorhynchum' comes out to or-NYTH-oh-RINK-um.

Spelling errors, well, that's a problem that lots of people have, including myself.

-Cj

Cj
My daughter married a Ochmanski pronounced O-MAN-ski

Ken: My name *SHOULD* be spelled Maciejewski and be pronounches ma-KYE-ev-ski (with the gutteral back of throat thing on the stressed syllable (incidentally, it means "son of Maciejew")) but they changed the spelling after coming over to Maciejeski, and our horribly bastardized pronunciation is ma-CHESS-key.

Personally, I prefer ma-KYE-ev-ski. I'm toying with the idea of putting the w back in with a legal name change.

-Cj

Thanks for the concern, Clara! :~)
I popped in for lunch and thought that I'd look around.

I moved virtually everything in several weeks ago.
(They, actually, might have done better outside!)
I just haven't had the time to do much else with them.
Dark, cold and wet aren't a good combo.
I tried to work with them last night, after I got in at about 10'ish.
Aparently, I need a good fungicide, as I'm seeing mold.
I'm not a happy camper, right now.

"Forget the livestock they won't croak it..."
{{gwi:193417}}

Uh...Actually, they will!
Being ruminants, they have to have constant food and can have horrible issues without.
My pastures are completely out and I've been hauling in hay.
With 100+ sheep, 30-40 cows/calves/bulls/steers, etc
That's a lot of feeding for just me to do alone...every day and sometimes twice.
Not to mention, the chickens, pigs, gardens, fruit trees, dogs, cats, mule, donkey and my fish!
That's in addition to winter prep, chiminey work, shelter work and constant fence repair,
I've been working on the Back Hoe for three days and need to go ready one of the barns,
as I'm getting 50 tons of Alfalfa this weekend and will need to unload and stack it...Arrg!

Unless it's raining too hard, I'm out frantically trying to better prepare...and losin' the fight.
I'm overwelmed and fixin' to pull the covers over my head and ignore it all!
I think that I need extra comforting and might have to put a nipple on my vodka bottle for solice!
Maybe...I'll get a Teddybear too!;~)

Hopefully, I'll be able to catch up soon.
It's always this switching of seasons that gets messy!
This one is just more messy than usual!

Sheesh!
If I were still in Palm Springs, I'd just be getting ready for all the upcoming seasonal parties!
And...emergency Botox treatments for the weekend! ;~)!

Wimper...whimper...whine...
Scott