I dunno... I am of the opinion that Americans over fertilize anyway... but some people feel better if they throw money at things... I get fine crops without all that expensive stuff. Others feel that without spending money, you won't get good stuff... well... do as you feel is best.

If it makes anyone feel better they can throw money at me.

I like free things for the garden, free bags of leaves bagged by other people, free coffee grounds from starbucks, free plants that volunteer to grow from my compost.

I did buy a 50lb bag of rabbit feed to sprinkle on my raised beds, the little pellets swell up in the rain and break down into nitrogen rich goodness. I mostly use it to make liquid fertilizer for potted plants though, my anthurium seems to like it.

Flowers can be nice without chemical "fertilizer", and vegetables don't have to be huge to be good tasting and good for you.

My thoughts,
Kyle

According to the United States Department of Agriculture we Americans spend more annually per capita on lawn and garden products than we do educating our children.

I've been an organic gardener for over 45 years and never purchased fertilizer until I moved 10 years ago to this place with sand, and so deficient in nutrients that it was three years before many common perennials like columbine would even bloom. Most vegetables wouldn't grow and the root crops were stunted and bitter. I have poured into my gardens huge quantities of organic material (leaves, wood chips, hay) as well as purchased high quality compost (locally available, fortunately), rock phosphate, hi-calcium lime, and more recently a great product called Planters II, which adds trace minerals. Without these products, I could never have made gardens. I have to travel a half day to get the last three products.

So, I think the answer is that what you need depends on your soil. What I have now is the most difficult soil I have ever contended with in many places in three different states and two zones, gardening for myself and for others. I'm also a garden consultant, teach classes and write a column for a local paper.

I think most people over fertilize and over water.

One year I added green sand and Rock phosphate (generous amounts) to the planting medium for containers. At the end of season it compacted too much and became hard like a brick.
This year I added soaked rabbit chow (slurp) to the planting medium, and the plants did better. (Watered with the supernatant liquid)
My neighbor from Okinawa says, soak them, ferment them add a variety of feed grains include rotten fruits-- to the top 3 inches. That is what did this fall.
This year (fall) my soil improvement is limited to adding manure, variety of feed grain (rabbit chow, Soya and corn meal and some molasses) all soaked for few days. Covered by straw soaked with liquid molasses. I will know the results know next summer. The only fertilizer I added is bulb tone (epsoma Âsemi organic)
The alfalfa chow got some minerals. I will supplement them with the locally available red cell (mineral liquid at feed stores).
I hope the earthworms, soil bacteria will take care of it. There is already good fungus underneath the straw. The earthworm count increased from one to about 7-10 for a spade of digging this year.

I've been an organic gardener for over 45 years and never purchased fertilizer until I moved 10 years ago to this place with sand, and so deficient in nutrients that it was three years before many common perennials like columbine would even bloom. Most vegetables wouldn't grow and the root crops were stunted and bitter. I have poured into my gardens huge quantities of organic material (leaves, wood chips, hay) as well as purchased high quality compost (locally available, fortunately), rock phosphate, hi-calcium lime, and more recently a great product called Planters II, which adds trace minerals.

You still haven't purchased fertilizers. You've purchased amendments. Organic fertilizer contain ground grains, something you've not used yet.

I started adding feed frains (soya bean meal, corn meal and dry molasses( soaked for 4-5 days).I added them for the first time on september 30th.Now there are more earth worms.
Is there any thing more you suggest?
The ground is frozen, but I think I can add to few existing beds

As a person who sells fertilizer (although I would not call it designer, and very little over the internet) I would suggest basing your decision on a soil test. If I had enough manure etc I wouldn't buy any fertilizer. And dchall, the difference between a fertilizer and an amendment is generally a function of the percent N P K and has nothing to do with the origin. For example langbeinite (sometimes called sul-po-mag) is a mined salt that is classified as a fertilizer because it has so much K in it.

I have serious doubts about the hype created about "70 micronutrients!", and the boasts about calcium and many other macrnutrients in "designer organic mixes". So what? How many of those are you lacking? Don't believe that you NEED to add it just because the package claims to give you everything you need (at a premium price!).

Home compost, especially sheet composting IMO, will provide lots of micronutrients. Think about it. The materials that were composted are... anyone? Plant matter. Those plants mine the soil, air, and water for what they need (go figure). The compost will contain lots of goodies brought up from the ground.

That's why I agree with Fertman to an extent- if you have a hard time growing stuff, then look for what you need. Target the problem. I've never tested my soil as I've never had a problem (except for keeping up with the harvest!)- I grow in mostly compost, and we've discussed whether that's a complete solution or not here so I won't go into it. New gardners, new soils, plant problems- getting the soil tested is going to tell you what you need rather than dropping back and punting by spending money.

I firmly believe that people overstress the need for fertilizer, and overuse it (as evidenced by the number of "I have big bushy plants, but no fruit" posts during the growing season). A little goes a long way. Organic ferts, including seed meals and alfalfa meal, generally last longer and do better at feeding the soil and the plant. Mulch, mulch, mulch.

I generally agree with those who say fertilizers are largely overused. I also share the same outlook as those who mostly rely upon compost to meet all of their plant's needs.

However, there is a subject I have been curious about for some time and intend to do a little informal backyard experimentation with this coming year. That is foliar feeding and providing plants with specific, non essential nutrients to see what happens.

Foliar feeding seems to be somewhat controversial and the best of the university research I have read seems to be inconclusive and often contradictory, but it just seems to me that plants have adapted to take in some of what they need not from soil, but from the air. Whether it be from rainwater, tap water, well water, airborne particles or what have you it seems likely that plants are taking in via their leaves and not just their roots.

Consider the testimonials of those who use various teas on their plants whether it be ACT or simply the 'old fashioned' soaking of compost in a bucket for a week. I don't claim to have any answers at all, but it does seem to me that some of these commercial products intended for use as foliar applications may have something to them. Many of them are entirely natural as well, not synthetics. One such product is Organic Seaweed concentrate. 'Sea Magic' is one such product. The idea is seaweed contains a little of everything in the ocean. Does it work? I dunno. Would a foliar application of highly dilute Neptune's harvest liquid seaweed do the same thing? I don't know. would compost tea do the same thing? I dunno.

As far as providing plants with non essential nutrients there again appears to be research indicating there are some benefits, but the research isn't extensive and is sometimes contradictory. The idea behind it is that while there are known *essential* nutrients that all plants *require*, there may be other substances that plants don't need, but they may still evoke favorable plant responses. Some products claim to have these nonessential, but beneficial ingredients. Do they? I dunno.

For the most part I suspect compost and teas from compost can handle both tasks, but it is fun (to me) to play around and see what happens anyway.

If you come accross any conclusive ACT research- I'm interested.

The plural of anecdote is not data- no matter what people say :)

The plural of anecdote is not data- no matter what people say :)

That's true, but while ancedotes are not considered particularly valuable to scientists, they often are what fuels interest in scientific experimentation.

If only there were scads of well funded, independent, non biased labs hard at work trying to provide definitive answers to curious gardener's questions.

Until then all we can do is run our own backyard experiments and compare results with others doing the same or similar. It *is* the plural of ancedote, and every once in awhile it yields something really cool.

"That's true, but while ancedotes are not considered particularly valuable to scientists, they often are what fuels interest in scientific experimentation. "

Right. I'm honestly interested, but not convinced.

"If only there were scads of well funded, independent, non biased labs"

There's a whole group out there IIRC, dedicated to ACT promotion and investigation. Unbiased? Probably not. I'm willing to wade through actual studies to look for something conclusive, but just haven't come accross much.

You know- the last 3 times that my wife washed her car- we had bad weather soon after. Now- it aint my fault- I don't wash my car :)

There's a whole group out there IIRC, dedicated to ACT promotion and investigation. Unbiased? Probably not. I'm willing to wade through actual studies to look for something conclusive, but just haven't come accross much.

I agree. I have read the material at Soil Food Web, been on forums and even invited to private discussion groups centered around ACT and Dr. Ingram and her work. I have read the testimonials from passionate enthusiasts and tried it out myself.

Color me unimpressed ;-)

It occurs to me that you may have mistaken me as a proponent of ACT when I am not. I honestly don't claim to know anything about it despite having read the stuff available on the web and having tried it myself.

I mean, so what if the liquid has 20 trillion bacteria in it? What do they do? Do I want them doing it? LOL, I dunno.

At the same time I think it is fun and worthwhile to play around in the backyard and try things out. If one observes a positive response, it is probably worth repeating until that positive response no longer occurs ;-) Who knows why the positive response occurs? Or why it occured for one person and not another?

I am interested in finding out the whys and hows, but have concluded it is unlikely I ever will. So, I just have to be content to keep an open mind, try things out I consider fun and go from there.

If it works for me I will likely recomend it. If someone tries it for themselves and it doesn't work well... well, that's gardening for ya! ;-)

Dr. Linda Chalker does not seem to be overly impressed with foliar feeding. I've not seen any research on this subject since Dr. Tuker did his back in the 1950's, but there is an awful lot of hype about it from people with large dollars invested in this.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr. Chalker on Foliar Feeding

That's what I mean about inconclusive and contradictory research, kimmsr.

Dr. Chalker's article appears to be mostly against foliar feeding, but she says: Obviously, materials applied directly to a leaf are more likely to enter the leaf in large quantity than the same materials applied to the soil. Leaching, chemical reactions, microbial activity, etc. can decrease what actually reaches the roots and is taken up into the plant.

as well as: Foliar feeding is yet another agricultural practice best suited to intensive crop production under specific soil limitations rather than as a landscape management tool.

Her focus throughout seems to be on what she calls 'landscape plants' and seems to be trees and shrubs.

It seems to me that most home gardeners whether they grow in the ground, in raised beds or containers practice some variation on 'intensive cropping' techniques trying to maximize production per unit of space from various plants. It might be flowers or veggies, but rarely does one stress much over trees and shrubs unless using bonsai culture or growing fruiting shrubs/trees rather than ornamentals (landscape plants).

So, she seems to be saying there is some value in foliar feeding 'intensive cropped' plants. She also seems to say that various nutrients are more efficiently taken in by leafs than roots in the case of soils not supplying everything the plant needs in ready to use form.

Confusing stuff when an author starts out to talk down something, but actually talks it up in some specific ways quite applicable to the home gardener.

I see little choice for the home gardener other than to do some back yard experimentation and see what happens because, as usual, there is little research done that is of interest to or directly applicable to home gardeners. No money in it, I guess.

Some of the fertilizers are little over priced.
Tomato fertilizer 1 pound for $ 7-95. The literature says it supplies Magnesium and calcium also great for pepper plants.

Fungal tablets to keep near the roots 18-00.
Liquid fertilizer French import.
For 12 dollars a quart?

There is no end.

I used liquid Iron as a foliar spray. In two days time the leaves turn dark green. Fortunately available locally.
Red cell used to increase Hemoglobin for live stock costs 13 dollars per gallon. Includes all basic minerals. No need to pay shipping charges.

Get adequate levels of organic matter in your soil so you have an active Soil Food Web and the designer and foliar fertilizers will be unnecessary.

exactly! If your soil is great, who needs foliar fertilizers? over fertilizing makes the plant weak.

I don't have to read Dr Chalker-Scott to know she is "anti." She's always anti. I have permanently dismissed her as an expert in the art of faulty logic. At that she's brilliant.

Foliar feeding does work. I don't like it but it works. If you take it to the limit, some plants, notably orchids, will foliar feed exclusively and never develop any productive root structure. And to me, that tells me that I don't want to foliar feed, because the plants will become dependent on the foliar feed to the exclusion of the soil. That makes for fragile plants.

You're right, but I've also used Root Crops Alive and Tomatoes Alive as side dressing with noticeable results. (I've done most rows and left others alone for comparison.) I also use Espoma products on my ornamentals.

And to me, that tells me that I don't want to foliar feed, because the plants will become dependent on the foliar feed to the exclusion of the soil.

That's interesting because some of the material I have read on foliar feeding does say to continue the practice once it has been started, but did not say why. If it is true that the roots don't develop as well that is a problem.

On the other hand, instructions for some products/techniques also say to spray no more than once every 3-4 weeks in the growing season. Perhaps this is to prevent the root issues? Dunno.

The principle reason I am considering trying foliar feeding this coming year is that I have noticed that with even the most fertile soil, there are times in many plant's lives where they seem to "pause" in some years.

It isn't that the growing medium is deficient, it is that the plant can't get what it needs from the soil for whatever reason. Temps too high/low, too much rain or perhaps just a heavy feeding plant that would do better with a supplement as it begins to switch from vegetative growth to flowering.

This is the kind of thing that interests me in trying foliar feeding.

I have also read conflicting information on this, but some sources claim plant leaves are more selective in what the take in than roots are so plants only take in what they can use. If there is any kind of deficiency then foliar feeding can clear it up quickly, but it shouldn't result in too much of anything. Again, the material I have read is contradictory on this point so I don't know if it is true or not.

One thing I must always keep in mind is that as it relates to gardening in general, the conditions one grows under will determine how that person views the ability to grow. While one person may be fortunate enough to get one inch of rain per week in one part of the country, another may be dealing with a two-year drought in another. One person can go for a drive for 20 minutes and get all the seaweed they want, another in St Louis can only wish, move, or break out the credit card. I always keep that in mind as I read experiences on message boards; location is not to be denied.

As it relates to buying fertilizers I am fortunate enough to be able to go to many feed stores and get anything I wish to use. I too can go to a big box store and get some of the goodies they have for sale, if I am willing to pay the price they demand. My experience will dictate my opinion on weather a decision I make is worth the money. I have always wondered how adding a "ka-zillion" more microbes from a compost tea will be of benefit to a well amended soil that has already reached the maximum capacity for sustained growth? I asked that question on a message board and was accused of being a troublemaker.

The question of weather buying any item online is worth the money depends on what ones intentions are. To the person that is getting great growth, plenty of rain, and a well-amended soil the answer will be "you are wasting your money". To the person that is caught in the grip of a poorly amended soil, lack of rain, and searing heat will say something entirely different. To one a soaker hose is silly; to another without a soaker hose there would be no garden. Experience, input of others a person trusts, and the lay of the land will forever play into ones answer, and only time can one give a person an opinion based on that moment in time for themselves. The risk involved in owning/planting a garden/farm will forever be in the forefront; there are too many determining factors outside the growerÂs control that can play on the harvest one reaps. This is one of the reasons I enjoy the mantle of "mad (scientist) gardener", one will never know for sure unless they try it and find out. And even then it will only hold true for that moment in timeÂ

Blutranes

It's hard to separate the effects of foliar feeding from the effects that the foliar spray that MISSES the plant or gets washed onto the soil has by introduction through the roots without careful control of the experiment.

Pablo,

I usually spray very early in the morning when humidity is high. If I spray and I see the spray dripping I have sprayed too much. My understanding is that one wants the plants to be misted, not dripping with the spray. A soil drench will give a different result than what is looked for with foliar spraying...

Blutranes

blutranes- even if the plants are not dripping- much of that mist doesn't hit the leaves and falls to the ground where watering will carry it to the roots later.

I'm not stating an opinion on the effectiveness of foliar spraying- just pointing out that cause and effect are not always as clear cut as many think.

Pablo,

I understand what you are pointing out to be for sure. My input is only that misting, and if I may add, any mulch on the ground will limit what spray will get into the soil. We are on the same page, just my experience in using sprays...

Blutranes