Emergency Orchid Rescue- need help

9 years ago

Hi Folks. I am Dave. Brand new here, so quick intro. Im an avid gardener and been doing so for many years but mostly hanging baskets outside and flower beds. Houseplants are not much right now as the light in the suite is not plentiful. However grow lights will be the answer there.

Now for the Orchids.. Ive had success with houseplants, and have been trying orchids for a bit now, reading and researching. Doing quite well actually and learning from mistakes. And my brother brought over a bunch of orchids and most are doing quite well.

Recentyly I went to his place, and was appalled to find the condition of his orchids. Not only were they in a south window with zero shade screen, they are covered with this what seems like snow mold all over the roots. Roots are dying everywhere, although presently you wouldnt know it just looking at the plants as the leaves are quite healthy and one is still flowering which doesnt mean much.

So I wish to rescue them. Seems he has given up.
My questions are:

Is this really snow mold? I also though mealy bugs but the patches dont move, and mealy bugs are also usually found on leaves and there is zero on the leaves.
Another fungus? It looks a little lime green which is not exactly like the very white snow mold i usually see.

If he brings them all over, how much risk to my other plants given precautions are taken? Not worth the risk?

The last rescue i tried, the roots were rotten, which I cut, and try to dry it out a bit, but then didnt give it enough humidity for it to put out new roots, but now these ones will I assume have to be cut right back on the roots, dipped in perhaps 5% bleach solution? and soaked in fresh water for a bit?

Any help would be appreciated. Love the challenge.

PS seems only one image is allowed to be uploaded. How to upload additional images?

This post was edited by High_Tower on Tue, Aug 19, 14 at 11:33

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Comments (18)

garlicgrower
9 years ago
Hello High Tower:
Well, don't panic. From the photo, I can't tell what the white stuff is...mold or some kind of residue. Did he sprinkle on any stuff like powdered pesticide? or maybe diatomaceous earth? (that's for slugs).

Full sun might be fine for some genuses - Laelia anceps I leave in full sun all summer. Some Cattleyas like full sun. So, check the tags or send more photos so we know what the varieties are. If these are Phalaenopsis, then they may show signs of sunburn with dead spots on the leaves.

For repotting, cut back rotted brown roots, provide new media in large chunks for *air circulation* in slotted pots or baskets. Rotting is not caused by too much watering but by lack of good drainage and lack of air circulation. Roots are the opposite of leaves, they utilize oxygen while leaves take in carbon dioxide for photosynthesis. Rotted media compacts and prevents air circulation, and microbes living in the rot and contributing to rot are producing toxins which the root do not tolerate.

Read several of the very good threads here about potting, re-potting and mounting. Nick has some good discussions. : -)

Good luck!
Maryanne in WMass
High_Tower
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks for the info. Good to know. I wasnt panicking really, as ive dealt with bad situations with other plants, just felt sorry for them. You make a good point about the full sun, they didnt have any burn spots, so I take it they are not phaleonopsis. Well one is because its flowering and I know, and ironically it didnt have burn spots, but yea roots are not looking good and its only a matter of time. The other pictures attached are worse.

You mention to just cut back the roots, but if this is some sort of mold, do the roots not have to be put in a bleach or isopropyl alcohol solution though? Mold spores might be everywhere and bleach is the only thing I know that kills mold.
He did not sprinkle anything on. He doesnt even believe in fertilizing, so dont think it was something added. When I quedstioned him, I could only come up with that the media is just too old and decayed.

Thanks again for your time
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Your phal: I have saved several of these "scraps" as I call them. No intent to be derogatory, just descriptive of what's there-- no roots and two tiny leaves. Let's be nice and call them "remnants". I have also lost many more than I saved. So the probabilities are against you, but it's possible to save them. While Clara is right that it *can* be a long time before they bloom, it does depend on the vigor of the original. I had scraps of Baldan's Kaleidoscope and Little Emperior bloom the year after I brought them back from scrap-hood to normalcy. Just 3-4 flowers, but enough to warm the heart and make a nice show. It's now two years after remnant-hood and they have a 20-24" leaf span. You have to get fresh medium. Just buy a small bag of sphag. The reason for fresh medium is that the old stuff has the bacteria that originally rotted the roots in it, plus who knows how many months/years of accumulated fertilizer salts, plus is likely to be broken down. You wouldn't even put a healthy plant in that, much less a tiny remnant. Phals actually like to be repotted, and you get a 3-month or so growth spurt after giving them fresh medium. This is especially true of tinies, that don't have resources to fight against contaminated medium. Such a tiny plant belongs in about a 2" pot, clay preferably. If you can afford a small bottle of Dyna Grow KLN (it's a rooting hormone), give it a 20" float in the KLN dilute solution, and then put the KLN in your watering water for the next months or so. Loosely cover the top of the pot and leaves with a gallon size baggie, or provide good humidity some other way. DON'T MIST! Not unless you want to add crown rot to the tiny scrap's problems. In a tiny clay pot, keep the sphag barely moist. That means *watering*. If you are worried about getting it too wet, use a teaspoon or medicine dropper. In my own experience, for a plant with no roots, they often establish faster if I cut the big leaves in half. So I would cut the big yellowing leaf in half. This is what you would do with a rootless cutting of any plant, and it works with orchids as well. It allows the plant to conserve moisture because there's less transpiration surface. The leaf beginning to yellow is a sign that the tiny scrap knows it can't support it. Letting it concentrate on growing roots and needing to support only the tiny new leaves gives it a better chance. As you see, the scrap will cost you more than $1 in the end. But it's very exciting to succeed with one, and very good when it finally blooms.
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lauraeli_
9 years ago
Hydrogen peroxide kills mold. I have used it on other plant's roots without harm.
jane__ny
9 years ago
Don't put bleach on the roots! You'll kill everything including the plants. Just repot with fresh bark, don't overwater and the plants should recover. Only cut off roots that are mushy and dip your clippers in alcohol between cuts. Mold grows in damp environments. If you have good airflow and larger, fresh bark, it will disappear.

Jane
High_Tower
Original Author
9 years ago
Wow ok no bleach. Some websites do instruct 10% bleach solution. Hope not fatal for those people.

Alright. I will proceed with those instructions and clean them all up.

Is there an issue of doing this in the same room in close proximity to other plants or could those mold spores pass somehow into the air onto other plants?

Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.
jbraun_gw
9 years ago
I agree with lauraeli about the hydrogen peroxide. I prefer to us it as a clipper sterilizer between plants and on the plant roots after I've cleaned up. Jane-ny this is something that Alan Koch does afterwards and showed me in a class with him as a beginner.

As long as you remove all of the spent plant medium you may not have a problem with the mold spreading. Some people prefer to quarantine their plants before mixing with existing plants. Your choice.
arthurm
9 years ago
The jury is out on snow mold. it it harmful to orchids? Who knows? It is probably a result of overwatering.
As for all this bleach stuff....healthy potting mix is teeming with various forms of tiny life..neutral, beneficial and not good to the orchid. Bleach kills everything, it is like doing surgery with a circular saw.
By all means repot and remember good growing conditions help the plant ward off enemies.
jane__ny
9 years ago
I am with Arthurm. When you've been growing orchids for a long time, you have tried everything that is in fashion. Most growers wind up going back to the 'tried and true' methods.

I have tried peroxide and would up with dead plants. I have found that most mold is due to poor growing conditions. Learn how to water, find the correct lighting and air movement and you won't grow mold.

Jane
High_Tower
Original Author
9 years ago
Im going to have to say that I really appreciate all the help, but geez, the entire orchid community better get a grip and have some commonality.

Ive just did a ton or research,watched a ton of video and just to be sure I ask the experts in an orchid forum. They are all different answers. Someone says use bleach, someone freaks out and says no way, use hydrogen peroxide. Lots of videos are using HP for cutting and dead roots. Then that is bad and should never be done and will kill them. I cant win, doesnt matter what I do someone doesnt like it.

Well its done. They were all cleaned and cut and sprayed with HP so I guess they all die now.

Ill have video and pics up soon. You can all debate then
arthurm
9 years ago
Why should we get a grip and have some commonality?

This forum doesn't have a classification of the people posting like another one does. Expert, Super Expert,
Super Expert with PHD, and so on....

As to whether they die, that depends on your growing conditions and how close your growing conditions are to the ideal.

So what part of Canada is 7? This is the part of the problem, where the advice is coming from and the climate where the advisor lives. For example you could be growing under lights in Calgary and getting advice from a guy or gal in Hawaii.

Thank you for the chance to join in the future debate.
westoh Z6
9 years ago
Ain't orchids fun :-)

Just to add to the confusion, I would have unpotted, blasted it off with a hose or the like and then repotted in new media.

You came for advice, you got several different answers. It isn't an exact science, heck see what Nick's doing with phals to see just how many ways things can be done. You have to figure out works for you in your conditions.

Most of us growers have killed way more 'kids than we currently have, I'm sure I've put well over 300-400 in the compost pile...

Good luck,

Bob
High_Tower
Original Author
9 years ago
True, lots of varied opinions, although as a beginner orchid grower, I was just getting the sense that I should no better, when Im just following guidance from some prominent orchid youtube growers. Anyhow they are done. It was a learning experience. If they dont live it will be because of the low lights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqB_3tlNNWk
arthurm
9 years ago
"Prominent You Tube Growers" . You have to suss out what is good advice for your growing conditions and you did not answer my question re. where you are in Canada.
That is a vital bit of information!
The Zone = 7 bit might apply to Vancouver???
The zone down the backyard is 10 and I have at least a thousand orchids and I still struggle to grow some of them. This expert stuff is rubbish! Bob is on the money.
High_Tower
Original Author
9 years ago
Yes Zone 7. Im in Vancouver. Summer weather kinda mimics inside which is 70s-90s usually and humidity is usually in the 50-60s. Lots of sunshine for the most part and very dry in July - Sept, the rest of the year is hit and miss for sunshine.

In winter, temps outside are usually anywhere from 30-50s with alot of rain or just overcast days. Inside temps are easy, and humidity shouldnt be a problem. My issue for this survival project, will be light. Thats cost related, and hopefully can be rectified in future.
High_Tower
Original Author
9 years ago
Yes Zone 7. Im in Vancouver. Summer weather kinda mimics inside which is 70s-90s usually and humidity is usually in the 50-60s. Lots of sunshine for the most part and very dry in July - Sept, the rest of the year is hit and miss for sunshine.

In winter, temps outside are usually anywhere from 30-50s with alot of rain or just overcast days. Inside temps are easy, and humidity shouldnt be a problem. My issue for this survival project, will be light. Thats cost related, and hopefully can be rectified in future.
CharlieVonn
9 years ago
If light is an issue all you need is the cheapest 4 ft. fluorescent fixture you can find with one warm white and one cool white bulb (2700k and 6500k). Cost me around $15 (US) total. This will cover 4-6 square ft. This is more than enough light to bloom phals. and it will help supplement poor light for others. This isn't a complete solution and I'm no expert, but this worked great for me and it's an easy way to get started.
Also my fungicide of choice is physan but I've heard it kills orchids, too.
dakota01
9 years ago
Could it also be a build up of salt or mineral in the water he was using?
High_Tower
Original Author
9 years ago
It couldve been im not sure but on examining the decayed materiel after emptying the bowl, it seems to be it was just alot of rot and mold. Everywhere. Wasnt pretty, in fact nasty stuff.

Here is the follow up video.

http://youtu.be/RaEhy7Lc1v4

Here is a link that might be useful: Orchid hospital suite part 2

Emergency Orchid Rescue- need help

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