Pack away anything that might be used to color. Then later let her color only on what you give her to use. Just remember "this too will pass". Good luck.

"she's been made to help clean up with clear explanations of what she's done is wrong and why"

Sorry but she is TWO not twenty, she does not yet have the ability to understand all..........what she can understand is taking away the crayons, markers, whatever and like liza said, only give them to her to color on paper.

The swat does not hurt her as much as it does you, but it reinforces what you are saying. Do not back down, idle threats do more harm than good. Children learn very quickly if you back down that anything you say is, well, just words that have no meaning.

You could try those crayola products that only color on special paper and will not harm walls and carpet. Someday when she is a rich and famous artist you will be wishin' you had pictures of those walls! LOL!!

LOL, Linda. I've seen those crayon Linda was talking about.

Oh Gosh Janet. I've pretty much been there and done that. My son got his sister up out of her cot in the middle of the night, and they got into my refrigerator and took a bowl of cherry jello and dumped it in the middle of the living room rug, and finger painted with it. By the time I'd discovered it, was only a sticky dark mess and I rented a shampooer. Brand new carpet, and I soaked it getting the stains out and it pulled away from the wall on the edges.....shrank. So, what does my SIL get them for Christmas? Finger paints. LOL. It could be worse. DS then took magic marker and decorated the kid next door. Yes, they were both in their twos.

Sounds like your dd has discovered artistic expression. I'm not so sure removing all toys is a good thing. It's called boredom and usually results in more mischief. Although I surely agree that removing something they like or like to do for a punishment is appropriate. You may want to try hanging a blackboard and getting some chalk. If she strays from the proper work surface, it's easily washed off.

All of the above advice is very sound and good.

Above all, consistency.

Having explained to her why she can not color on certain items, I would remove all crayon products and have 'supervised' color time.

That's not to say she won't find a pencil in a drawer, lipstick in your purse, etc. to color with since she has discovered the fun involved.

I agree with what suzy said about removing all the toys...the other toys were not the 'offender' and boredom a lot of times brings out behaviors that wouldn't surface otherwise.

For one of my children, I got a spray paint from the home improvement store that is 'chalkboard' paint. We spray painted the back of his bedroom door and got lots of colored chalk. This solved the 'coloring' on anything that wasn't faster than him problem.

Another time I got freezer/butcher paper and taped it down a hall way as low and as high as a toddler could reach and this was their 'coloring' wall. Was lots of fun and they understood this was 'their special wall.' They could color on it but no one else could.

My daughter did that...once.....just once.
I wasn't angry, but I was sooooo sad....
"oh! on mommy's nice walls! Oh....I am so sad"
I laid such a guilt trip on her that at 48 she still hasn't recovered!! Probably scarred her for life.
I don't agree with taping paper on a wall to color on...I know too many kids who went on to color off the paper.....and around the corner and down the hall! LOL!
But I also remember the great fun when my parents were going tostrip the wall paper from a room and we all took artistic turns at it....the taller you were the nearer the ceiling you got to draw!
Then we got to help strip walpaper! I was about 5 when I first got to strip walpaper....I thought it was great fun!

OMG! That little baby is 2 1/2 already!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DD would paint herself with markers. Everywhere! Arms, legs, feet, hands, inside of her nose(grape scented), belly... It was all washable but inconvenient.

DGD loves painting and is pretty good about staying on the paper. An earlier attempt involved nail polish, finger and toe nails, hands, feet, arms, thighs, down comforter, new sheets and hair. Cleaning her up was punishment enough.

Consistancy, immediate consequences, and relatively short duration since she is so young is needed, and yes, at her age she knows she did wrong. It may be that she made mommy sad, but she knows that is bad.

Good luck. Soon she will be four and be able to use your logic on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jan

Thanks all for your advice. DH was out doing errands during this episode and DD had been put down for a nap by the time he got home. He laughed and said "she's a KID this is what kids do" and we laughed at the irony about how I'm definitely the "mean" parent. Don't get me wrong, DH does not let Joy (DD) get away with everything, but he tends to be more patient than I am. There are pros and cons to parenthood at "advanced maternal age" and I plead guilty to expecting too much and not recognizing that this is normal, though very irritating, for her age. Consistency we can definitely keep doing. I will say though that there was not one crayon in her bedroom-this was a ballpoint pen she had found somewhere. I'm trying hard to keep away every possible thing she could write with from her reach in our house but I gotta be honest-its tough to keep one step ahead of her on that front. You THINK you've got everything out of her reach that she could possibly get at and then she figures out how to get at something you didn't know she could get at.

Last weekend's fun was that Joy found a bag of powdered sugar in some infrequently used drawer (extras from Christmas cookie making) and she found a muffin pan. I found her covered in powdered sugar with the muffin pan and spoon in our living room after just going out and getting the mail. "Making Pupcakes Mommy, making Pupcakes." Since she had never been told she couldn't do this I didn't have the heart to take it away from her and simply had to laugh. Our house is rather sticky at the moment as cleaning up the "Pupcake" mess hasn't been easy;-)

Thanks again for your advice. Its handy to get the opinions of those who have "been there, done it."

Rachel made me breakfast one morning...

1 huge cutting board covered with a bazillion $ of dried fruit and that topped with an 8 ounce jug of garlic powder!!!! Yum!

Jan

At 2 you cannot leave them alone for 1 minute....not one!!
you saw what a mess she can get into in the blink of an eye...she could get into a life threatening or certainly injurious situation in the same time.
You go out to get the mail....she goes with you! it's amazing how fast a toddler can stuff a bean up their nose!....and I am only half kidding. I know 2 who made ER trips one for a piece of paper up the nose and the other for a popcorn kernal in the ear.
Linda C

Imagine what it must be like to be two years old! All the stuff you're just discovering you can do, colors, language, jumping up, hugging. I wish we kept the memory it , it must be wonderful.

However, there have to be boundaries that are kept and I understand that and your daughter will.

Do you spend time playing with her? Drawing with her on paper? It sounds to me that she has too much time to herself without guidance while the drawing etc., is going on.

Don't be too busy ever to sit down with her and say "let's draw together", "let's dance" . She used the muffin pans? I guess she's seen you do that. Be proud she's noticing life. She enjoys your company, she enjoys doing things with you. Make time for that.

It's tough, but it will pass and one day you'll tell these stories to her :)
Imagine what it must be like to be two and discovering the world.

"It sounds to me that she has too much time to herself without guidance while the drawing etc., is going on."

Just out of curiosity Sheila. You're such an expert on child rearing because (fill in the blank).

For the love of all that is unmarked.... HIDE THE MAGIC MARKERS AND SHARPIES!!!!!! LOL!!

My brother at age 2 1/2 found a black permanent marker somewhere and sat in the middle of mom's bed and colored his legs, arms, chest, tummy, hands, my folks' sheets, pillowcases and bedspread before mom noticed that things were too quiet. Heh. I was a very good and quiet girl for several hours after that. Mom's fuse was lit and BOY was she ever mad. Did I mention that it was permanent marker?

Good luck. :)

CRINGE! Please! No food fights!

Janet, not everyone here knows the trials and tribulations you went through to bring Joy into your life. Those of us who do, know that you could never for a minute be considered to be "uninvolved." Only inexperienced. Joy's name alone reveals what she means to you and your DH.

Marilyn, Sheila was only trying to help. If you took offense, please communicate it to her privately. Please let this thread remain a healthy conversation aimed at giving Janet the advice she's looking for.

Back to the topic at hand... Janet, I found that the best way to find what a toddler might be able to find or get into was to view the world from his (my case) or her (your case) perspective. Get down on your hands and knees and crawl around on the floor looking at tables, chairs, bookcases, etc. from her height to see what she might be able to find. You might be surprised.

My boys were never into coloring, so I never had your immediate problem, but the comments about kid-height chalkboards and coloring paper brought to mind one other thing Joy might like. Do you have a mirror at her height? I had a plastic one that was about 3'x5' on a bathroom wall and it was great for things like toothbrushing, getting dressed, making funny faces and all sorts of things. (Of course, drawing on it with soap now comes to mind, too.) ;-)

(I wish our mutual work schedules would allow us to get together again sometime, girlfriend, so I could finally meet your DD, but Pidge keeps me updated.)

Thank you Kim for your very kind words. Other remarks I have I shall leave unwritten.

Ah the terrible twos that progress into the terrifying threes! At this age kids are all Id & no super ego. I like to think of them as puppies that need to be train & who only understand short commands - No! Sit! Good girl! etc.

At Joy's age I was babysitting my god daughter who was being exceptionally twoish on that particular day. I put her in our bedroom for a time out & about 15 minutes later she came out with our new kitten in a veritable strangle hold. The bottom half of the kitten's body was all wet & she said, "Kitty has to go potty!" I just burst out laughing, which most of the time is your best reaction.

My 4 kids are now aged 22-34. Especially the last two did everything imaginable and many things unimaginable. Especially the youngest and only boy. I often wonder how I/he survived his childhood. Just remember that this too shall pass. Oh gosh, the stories are just too many to tell. He has turned out to be the most marvelous young man. We are more than proud of him. But as a pre-school kid, he was an absolute horror. I think Joy's activities just show her brightness, intelligence and curiosity. Don't know the background, what did you go through to have Joy?

Janet,

Sorry, I skipped what others said. Here's what I do in those situations. You take away completely the item she's acting poorly with. Sit her down in the proper environment, whatever you think that should be, for me, at the table. Next, you tell her the rules, you must stay seated at the table and draw only on the paper, up front (set her up for success!). As long as she's at the table using it properly, i.e. drawing only on the paper!, she can have them. The moment she leaves with it in her hand, they're gone again. Also, compliment her whenever she does it right, e.g. What a big girl drawing on the paper! Yes, that's right. I'm so proud of you using the crayons at the table... you get the picture. After awhile, she'll get that big girls who act responsibily get to have fun in a positive way.

My mother told me that at about the age of Joy I drew on the wall in chalk and brought her into the room to proudly show her the "kitty" I had drawn. Apparently I also thought poking holes in the bread rising on the warm hearth was an entertaining pastime.

Another thread could be us all owning the stuff we did as very little kids...I suspect some of us might make Joy seem positively angelic :)

Your daughter sounds as though she finds life to be her namesake, Janet. :)

No way Jose, Sheila! I was a perfect kid. But sis, that's a different story. She picked flowers at the graveyard, cussed, drank, and put lotion in her cottage cheese.... It's the adult part I keep screwing up; evidently I didn't get it out of my system as a kid ;D Ok. Maybe I did do some things wrong, I just don't remember them any more. I'll have to ask sis, she'll sure know.

Janet, has anyone told you that two year olds have nothing on three and four year olds !!! :) This I know from personal experience! I laugh when people talk about the "terrible twos". LOL.

A friend of mine has off and on been raising two of her grandchildren. The oldest taught us about magic erasers (the white sponge things) and the usefulness of wide wallpaper borders! The second one (with the assistance and ingenuity of the oldest -- ages four and seven respectively) fingerpainted the family poodle green, blue and pink. The poor thing tried to get away and they caught him and hauled him back. I will say they did get a spanking (and sent to their rooms) for that little shenanigan.

I laughed my head off when she told me the story, but it took her a few weeks to see the humor :) The poodle had to be shaved and every time I saw him all I could think of was Madame Blueberry's song, "I'm so bluuuuuuuuuu....." Once we got down to the details, you could see the plot had been building for a while. The four year old had been eyeing the paints, properly put up out of her reach, for quite a while. She'd been finding excuses to linger in the bathroom where they were. She just had to wait until her brother came over cause he was tall enough, standing on top of the cat litter box, to reach them. Yes, there was cat litter involved too! A little glitter for the puppy.

Remember walls can be painted, messes cleaned up, and it will make for great "remember when" stories.

P.S. ...take pictures!

I realize in re-reading this thread that there were a few pertinent details I left out. Joy was in her room and was supposed to be taking a nap when this incident happened. All crayons and known writing implements had been removed due to prior "incidents." I had no idea the stinker had snuck in a ballpoint pen. Maybe I need to start putting her through a scanner before she enters her bedroom? I'd really like her to learn that whether pens and crayons are around or not you don't draw on anything but paper. During the midst of my scrubbing the wall, she helped some but took a little more elbow grease than a two year old has, she said "Good JOB Mommy"-I didn't know whether to laugh or scream. That said, I did talk to a friend yesterday about the coloring incident and her son is also 2 1/2 and got a misery loves company talk. Joy is a scamp, a lovable, sweet adorable scamp, but she's definitely curious about everything and if its not bolted down she's into it. DH jokes that Joy would find a way to get into trouble in an empty room:-)

"Find trouble in an empty room...." Yep, that just about describes a lot of two year olds.

The problem is that they are toooooo young to understand the whys and wherefores of explanations. The best explanation is "because I say so." That is harsh at times, but they get used to it and sometimes even heed it.
This comes in handly when they become teens. The fewer words, the better. Some might actually sink in.

Now the really great finger painting is done at a "poopy party." on the wall, next to the crib. Nothing like it!

My neighbor was telling me about her adorable little girl and the red nail polish all over the white carpet in the bedroom.........I tried so hard not to laugh!!!! Needless to say they are replacing the carpet in the master bedroom because nail polish, especially red, does not come out!

I agree with Agnes and disagree. Joy isn't too young for the system I talk about. It has been started as young as 2, with the program I participated in and about which I am talking. She won't perfect it, but, it's good to positively reinforce what she she should be doing (stay=get to draw/leave=no drawing). But, oh how I wish I'd started much much ealier with I said so. That was the bane of my son's early school existence. :(

Janet, if it's any consolation, I have "Hi Mom" written on the wall in pencil right next to the computer! It was the only thing DS ever wrote on a wall, and he did it when he was 5! His reasoning is that he wanted to show me how well he could write a sentence. LOL! I've never had the heart to wash it off or erase it, and now, 9 years later, it still makes me smile every time I read it. Right along with the stickers stuck to the wall, and the back of the door, and the mirrors, and....

It could be worse, she could always dump a can of gas around the house pretending she was burning someone at the stake while playing cowboys and injun's (my cousin's escapade, not mine!). Or she could discover that rocks make great etching tools and scratch the windows on the family station wagon (my one attempt at releasing my inner artist). Or she could take every spoon out of the house and use them for digging. Or she could find a pack of matches and decide to light a camp fire. Or she could put the crayons in the vaporizer and watch all the pretty colors swirl as they melted. Or she could rub Play-Doh into your sofa. Not that we were "bad" kids, but we did have unique ways of amusing ourselves!

BTW, just wait until she's suddenly 15 (going on 27) and armed with a learner's driving permit! You'll look back and wish that all you had to worry about was her coloring on the walls!

Maryanne

Take lots and lots of pictures.
You'll be sorry if you don't.

Your daughter is a gift, all too
soon she will be all grown up and trust me you will
give anything to have her back, 2 years old so you can pick
her up in your arms and love her to pieces.

I always figured if it wasn't a life threatening situation
and they weren't going to get hurt, let it go.
However I did draw the line at peeing in a juice cup and
stashing it in the refrigerator.:0)

Joy sounds like a bundle of JOY and a very imaginative
one at that. My grands are all grown up and boy what I would give to hear the laughter of a child around this house. Shoot, I'd probably get out the pen, crayons, whatever and join her.

Having met Janet's little cutie on several occasions, I can attest that there's been a mischievous twinkle in her eye from day one. I can also attest that Janet and her DH are very relaxed parents who really don't sweat the small stuff, like Joy "he'ping" Mommy "plant" flowers--Janet puts them in, Joy pulls them out. What a funny little girl she is, looks just like Janet and just as much fun.

Once I let my much bigger grandkids draw all over the dining room wall ("Laura is #1" and "Evan is great," etc.) before it was to be papered. And the magic markers bled through the wallpaper, thus requiring me to put a coat of paint on it before the paper could be applied. Talk about a lesson learned.

Pidge, I think you learned the tule of unintended consequences with your wall. My dad let my brother & U do the same thing in a bathroom he was redoing. However, he was pputting up tile so he didn't have to worry about the writing bleeding through.

Shelia, a thread about our youthful pecadillos would probably be fun. Unfortunately mine would extend through my twenties.

OK my kids are 24 and 21, and the older one is getting a doctorate in biochem and the younger one is an IT specialist and may either major in psych or IT. SO...I wrote "No" in red crayon on several window frames in our apartment. I am 51 and did it about 49 years ago. I couldn't tell you why I did it. We had art stuff around but I think it had something to do with the vertical appeal, like real artists working at easels. (Like my dad). So what I would do is get one of those rolls of big paper and stick some on the wall and let her work on that. If money is tight, you could get a big box from an appliance store, open it up and stick that on the wall and let her work on that. Supervising dearest daughter while the art supplies are out will also help keep the walls clean. Display the finished work somewhere prominently and have visitors make a big deal over the finished work. Since everything costs money, I would encourage the budding artist to put lots of detail into the picture before she can pronounce it done. It does not have to all be done at one sitting. BTW I am an art teacher now (not doing much of my own work now, until I am done with that job). I work in a private school for emotionally disturbed, learning diabled, and autistic students ages 5-21. I also run a gardening rprogram with my oldest autstic students.

I must admit, I alternated laughing & then crying at these posts. My daughter is now 24 and just had my first grandson! I would love to have her 2 again for just 1 day!
Even if her nickname then was "Flusher"! (She loved to flush everything down the toilet, keys, towels, bath cloths, socks, shoes, etc. LOL) She ran me a merry chase and yes, she did go through a phase of coloring and stickering herself, the walls, the furniture, everything!
Quiet for 5 minutes back then meant "Watch out!"
Sigh.... Just 1 day!

Joan

Big appliance box can also be a perfect playhouse with one side cut out and windows in sides...then let her decorate her own "walls". My son used to take naps on a pile of pillows in his "Snoopy doghouse"...lol

Stickers can be fun...I allowed my granddaughter to decorate a couple of old wooden canisters with them. She went home and discovered a sheet of peel'n'stick postage stamps worked just as well on her Dad's desktop. LOL

I don't have any advice except as others have said...keep an eye peeled especially those in the back of your head . These are wondrous years of exploration and experimentation for both of you. josh

Josh, You have to be extremely careful with stickers, especially with a 2-year-old. Their cognitive skills aren't developed enough to understand the proper place for them. Most of my friends went through a stage of stickers on almost every piece of furniture in their house.

Yeah, Andie, that comment "stickers can be fun" was tongue in cheek...LOL I was thinking later that it must be so hard to be 2...you can pick and eat blueberries but not red holly berries. You can wash hands in one white basin but not the other (toilet). Sometimes you're praised for undressing yourself, sometimes not...lol You want to copy Mom but her lipstick is verboten, while she loves it when you brush your hair. So many confusing messages it's a wonder we all made it as kids ourselves then Moms. But it's still a fun trip. josh

Trying to explain to Joy right now why Mommy picks some plants but not others is a particular problem. How to explain what a weed is and why its bad vs other flowers that you don't pick...

Is there a food she doesn't like that you let her not eat? You could make an analogy for her.

BTW, time-outs are not consistently effective for all children.

Also, I'm a big fan of the Positive Discipline series of books. Consistency is primary, and logical, natural consequences (not punishment) give the best results (if you're going for a well-adjusted person, who can self-regulate, and treats others with kindness). In a nutshell, so to speak.

When you are Joy's age you pick all, why, because they are pretty and mommy will love them..........period. I use to pick flowers for my mom, including ragweed which she was so allergic to! LOL! But hey, what did I know, I just wanted to give her pretty flowers.

Ya know, I have often wondered how those of us that are older ever got raised.....after all there were no books for our parents to read. All they had was their instincts of right and wrong and what they were taught growing up. Nowadays there are tons of books that tell new parents how to bring up their children.

I like the title of the book leaveswave posted 'Positive Discipline', sounds like it might have some good ideas.

Having mothered such a variety of children, ages, stages, sexes, etc., I have snickered all the way through this thread.

Above all, keep a good sense of humor and 'this too shall pass.'

When my Christian came along, my older children would say, "You would KILL us for that."
My answer, "I'm exhausted from you guys. If it isn't murder and the house isn't being burned down, this too shall pass." LOL.
With experience, you learn to pick your battles.

As far as not leaving them alone for 2 seconds, I have even been IN the same room with them and they were able to pull one over on me.

I went to a women's conference with a group of ladies several years ago.
The comment was made how I took a shower quicker than anyone they had ever seen.

Well, I learned 'the hard way' any shower longer than 2.7 seconds wasn't worth what I had to face when I stuck my head around the bathroom door. :')

Wanda, LOLOL! You remind me why I loved going to my girlfriend's house when I was in high school. She was the 7th of 10 kids & I think it would have taken murder or the equivalent to phase her mother.

When my middle boy was about two (still in diapers..drat it!) and his big brother was only 17 months older, they sometimes drove me up the wall. They were capable of ANYTHING.

One day it was especially bad. I snapped. I sat one down in a chair on one side of the room and the other one in a chair on the opposite side. I dared them to get up. And then, I went into the kitchen to cool off. After a while, I went to tell the little darlings that they could get up. The older one said, "I think I'll just sit here a while longer." The two year old had hopped up, he turned around and climbed back up into the chair and annouced that "I will too." I left them sitting there. They stayed there for a few minutes more before quietly getting up and going into the playroom.

So much for time out punishment for those two.