I'm doing a semi-renovation. I watered too little all summer and stopped watering completely at the end of fireworks season (end of July).

I was hoping that my grass would not only go dormant but die.

Much of the lawn was brown after about a week of no water, but there are patches of grass that stayed green throughout the month of no water and highs in the 90s.

I'm seeding native grasses--sheep and creeping red fescue in the back, streambank and western wheatgrass in the front, with some blue grama in the hellstrips. I've had poor germination in the past, and there's a short window before average first frost (less than 6 weeks). The forecasted high for Saturday was 98, but it was supposed to drop to 85 today (with rain! possible today and tomorrow).

I presoaked the wheatgrass seed to try to help with the germination (both to get more to germinate and to get faster germination).

I also hand raked, but only targeted spots.

I spread the wheatgrass seed by hand (because it was wet and because it's so large that it doesn't work well with a broadcast spreader). Since it was so hot, I worked in spurts and it ended up taking me most of Saturday to spread the seed.

I started covering the seed with UCG and compost today. I've been storing the UCG up, but they got really clumpy, so I ran them through my sifter first (hand operated, so not very fast).

I didn't even finish with the hellstrips before the rain hit, and then it rained for about 5 hours. It's supposed to rain some more tomorrow. I hope I can do some more topdressing first. I was planning on simply flinging the grounds without sifting them, so it is taking much more time (and effort) than I expected.

I also saved off about 1/2 of the wheatgrass and sheep fescue seeds and I'll be dormant seeding them later this fall (dormant seeding seems to work well here).

Next year, I'll water no more often than once every two weeks (and remember that I usually get no precipitation to speak of from June through August--beat it by a day this year). The following year, I hope to be able to cut back to watering once or twice for the summer. From what I've read, I could quit watering completely and the grass would live, but to keep it green, I'll need to water a couple of times a year. I'm not sure how the creeping red fescue will fare, but the others should all thrive and any remaining KBG and TTTF should die off.

I'm going to do it the hard way, and do two overseed projects. I did renovation the last two years, and it's a back breaker. It came in well, but this time around I want to avoid all that work.

So overseeding happens Labor Day. Mowed short, raked up, exposing as much dirt as possible. And staked off, so no traffic in there. But this year, it's an overseed. I'll report here, now and then, with how it turns out.

Hey Paul,

I did my Mag 3 section about 10 days ago. It took me all day and my body was aching too. It's coming up. These mild temps have been great!

Greg

Thank you, all three of you. Keep it up guys! I finished my topdressing and sprinkler adjustments today, now I am sitting pretty.

I mostly know what you all are up to: Greg we are in similar situations, and BP I totally salute you for going that route, I really hope it works out! And then there is Philes, who provides so much information here that he should start charging...

Anyway, Philes, what kind of grass are you overseeding into, and with what kind of grass?

Inquiring minds, you know. ;-)

Best, and again good luck everyone,
Paul

This is kind of my whole yard renovation week. Pruning and chipping almost done. Beginnings of a new flower bed taking shape. Grass cut to 2". Bagging mower broke again - may have to rake (where's that bottle of advil?). Hurricane Hanna due to blow through on Saturday. Should I hold seed until Sunday? I'm really in a quandry about that. I know if I seed it will be a gully washer. If I don't seed it will be the nicest gentlest little rain there could be. Mother nature can be so cruel.

Paul,

For the first time since 2001, NO grass seeding this year, I finally can take a break. I do have a 4000 s/f area that still has cruddy Scotts premium KBG mix still, but the elite KBG is pushing its way in and being on the "unseen" side of the house, I really don't care this year.

2002 - seed new lawn with Scotts Premium KBG

2003 - reseed entire front lawn due to snow mold with Scotts Premium KBG

2004 - dig out all of the poa annua and trivials and seed those areas. Add loam to raise poorly graded area and seed.

2005 - Discovered the lawn forum. Expand back yard from 5000 square feet to 18000 square feet. Install irrigation front and back. Seed the entire new back yard with Elite KBG cultivars. Add more loam to front to fix grade issues and seed.

2006 = Did soil test, went organic in the spring. Great lawn in the back except for low spots, about 2500 s/f. Raised those areas and seeded again. Front still was not good, grade is poor looks terrible.

2007 - Back yard looks great, had a few weed issues but fixed them. Installed new driveway raised it 2-3 feet higher, raised entire front lawn along with driveway and graded by a profesional. Taperd properly for correct drainage. 260 yards of clean fill, silt, and topped with 6 inches of loam. Seeded front lawn woth Elite KBG.

2008 rest...enjoy the fruits of my work over the last 3 years. The first 3 years I had no idea what kept going wrong...thanks to this forum I figured it out. 24,000 of the 28,000 s/f looks amazing.

2009 - Geothermal outdoor coil going in? May have to remove several trees, bring grade up 3 feet. All of this will fix the 4000k left of Scotts premium crap and add 3000k of more lawn.

Ahh, the life of a homeowner...it is always interesting.

Soccer Dad, I personally would wait until Sunday to seed. You'll have nice, well-watered soil to work with and can just start on light watering right away. I also just finished my pruning and chipping, very satisfying to see that pile of clippings reduced to future compost at something like a 10:1 ratio in volume.

Egghead, glad to hear you get a break. From the looks of things, I'll be digging the Poa annua and triv out of my fall '07 renovation next year, similar to your schedule. I'm letting some grass grow where I really don't need it to be able to use it as sod to patch those areas with. We'll see how that goes... How did you raise your low spots?

Paul

Paul,
I had to bring in 9 yards of loam and spread it with a Kubota. Very carefully so I did not tear up the good lawn in the back. There were spots that were 3"-5" low. I did this in September, the same day Tom Brady got blind sided on the first play of the season and Buffalo scored on the fumble recovery, you know the date don't you? Oh sorry, football is back...

So I seeded them on the 15th and here is October 6th 2006 after a little germination.

{{gwi:115519}}

I seeded on Saturday and thought the fescues would be first to sprout, but I think the blue grama was first. I'm especially surprised since blue grama is a warm season grass and, although it was hot when I planted, it has been cool since. I hope it grows enough to make it through the winter.

There aren't many seedlings here (and they're really tiny), but it's in better focus.
{{gwi:115520}}

This one isn't focused as well, but shows more seedlings. {{gwi:115522}}

Egghead, nine yards? That's some work! Looks great though.

BP, glad to see your new grass. I just saw my first fuzz today (day 5, all fine fescues). As an aside, I figure you might know this: do I understand right that "grama" translates to "grass?" There is a hotel in San Diego called the "Hotel Del Coronado," but it is widely known as "The Del." I failed Spanish in the 9th grade, but I'm pretty sure that translating "the del" into either language would make it nonsensical, and I wonder if that is the same for blue grama grass, it being either blue grama grama or grass grass. How about Kentucky blue grama?

;-)

Paul

I didn't know grama meant grass. I'll have to stop saying blue grama grass. It's like saying PIN number or 7 AM in the morning.

You've got fine fescue sprouting after 5 days? I haven't seen any of the CRF or sheep fescue yet. I think they're both considered fine fescues. I planted on Saturday. It has really cooled off, but should still be warm enough for germination. The back yard is also more shaded, so that may have something to do with it. I'm not too concerned because I had read 7-14 days for germination.

I've actually seen a few wheatgrass sprouts. I thought for sure the fescue would be on its way before any wheatgrass sprouted, so maybe presoaking worked. But I'm not getting too excited, because I've only seen a few sprouts in the entire yard. This is probably my 4th attempt to replace the lawn but I'm doing a lot more to make it work this year, so maybe I won't have to water next year (or at least not every week).

I'm still not sure that is what it means, but I thought I read that somewhere. But it seems everyone calls it "blue grama grass" anyway. Yes, fine fescues in 5 days. I was a little surprised too, but I remember now having a similar result last year with KBG, though this germination is much more significant than I remember that one being.

I think I just had good seed to soil contact. I started with basically bare soil, fluffed it up a little with a landscape rake, broadcast the seed with a handheld spreader, rolled in one direction, dragged a leaf rake gently over the area, and rolled in the opposite direction. May sound like a lot of work but I was only dealing with 1200 square feet, so it wasn't difficult. The grass is coming up mostly in the tiny rows created by that final raking, which makes me glad I did that, especially with all of the rain in my area this weekend.

FWIW I seeded with Garnet CRF, Longfellow II and Intrigue Chewings, and Gotham Hard. I don't which have actually sprouted.

After I read your post, I looked it up. There are some other words for grass, but grama translates as grass.

I was looking at the lawn this afternoon and saw some more wheatgrass seedlings and also saw a couple of fescue seedlings in the back. The fescue I got was Jasper CRF (I think it's actually JAsper II, but the II didn't fit on the receipt) and Covar sheep fescue.

I saved half the wheatgrass seeds and sheep fescue for dormant seeding. I only got a small amount of CRF because although I like the spreading, it's a water hog compared with the other grasses.

If I don't get a full enough lawn by the end of next summer, I'll probably seed again, but just seed the western wheatgrass and sheep fescue. Since the wheatgrass is germinating better than the fescue, I think I'll presoak all my seeds next year.

I had good results from dormant seeding before (but didn't get enough done before snow covered the lawn and never went away) so I'll probably do the same thing and save half for dormant seeding.

As I'm sure you know, Jasper and J/II perform very well in many locations, though I agree that relative to your other grasses it is a water hog. And it is not native, of course.

Have you considered a hard fescue? I don't know how Gotham works by you but you might look into it, it does well in my area and is relatively new. Also Firefly. Neither is native of course (same as Jasper or J/II), but they are not water hogs either, at least to the extent that the Jasper could be called that. And which in any event is nowhere near the water hogginess of KBG.

Of course, the hard fescues don't spread very well, so putting the relatively water-hogging CRFs aside, you might also consider a Chewings if you are looking for spreading abilityThey don't spread as well as the creepers of course, and certainly no where near as fast as KBG, but they do spread better than the hards. If you were so inclined I would recommend looking into Intrigue Chewings, which has apparently demonstrated some allelopathic effects against some common weeds, and is also one of the best trialed Chewings of all time. If you go to NTEP, it hasn't been trialed since maybe to 2002 trials, but I have not heard a bad word about it since. So look at the 2002 trials in your area to see if it might work for you, again, if you are so inclined.

Best,
Paul

"And it is not native, of course. "

I thought CRF was native, but I'm actually more interested in low water use than native status. I seeded strawberry clover to add some nitrogen. Sheep fescue is native to this area, but Covar is based on sheep fescue found in Turkey.

I'll look into the Chewings fescues. Sheep fescue doesn't have rhizomes, but it tillers so aggressively that I understand it will outcompete the wheatgrasses (which are rhizomatous).

Whoops, you are right, CRF is native. I didn't realize that. FWIW I've seen Chewings described as an "aggressive bunch-type" grass that has some ability to choke out other plants.

As an update, I'm seeing a lot of wheatgrass now, even in areas that stayed green during my neglect. There are still some bare spots with poor germination, but I'm planning to dormant seed and native seeds are less predictable in terms of germinating, anyway.

If I ever do another seeding (other than dormant seeding) I will definitely presoak. People are always talking about what a slowpoke KBG is, but KBG is usually a speed demon compared with native wheatgrasses. Fine fescues are usually faster than KBG. With the presoaking, the wheatgrasses germinated much faster than the fescue.

I need to look into Chewings fescues. The aggressive bunch type description sounds like sheep fescue.

For those of you who haven't been looking at these as closely as Paul and I have, I should point out that when I call CRF a water hog, I'm comparing it with grasses that live in desert conditions.

I think CRF would stay green with no additional water in most areas of the US where cool season grasses grow (just not in the desert).