Yes, I've witnessed it first-hand. I will never forget one of my first posts "Will a pro-range make me a better cook?". That was an interesting debate! I had several people tell me I should put the money into cooking school instead of the pro-range. They totally missed the point of my question, but part of the problem was how I stated it. I am a good cook, but I cook simple, healthy; no souffles or elegant sauces. They actually helped me in the end to decide that I really didn't need all that fire power to cook how I cook and I wasn't going to change.

My other experience was worse in the appliance forum. I was inquiring about speed ovens. I had done my homework, but this so called "expert" told me I was ignorant! Yes, those were his exact words! I couldn't believe it. I fired back by telling him that I was sure he could find a better use of his time than insulting people on a help forum where they come for help! To this day I have not received any more of his "advice".

Most of the time I find it all rather amusing; that is unless someone is just being attacked personally like I was. I think in addition to the help we receive here many find it an escape for a brief time from reality. It should be a happy place! Thankfully, 99% of the time, it is!

I think Kitchens is a tea party compared to some of the other related forums. Baths offers useful information along with dire warnings that a single misstep from the poster's strict instructions will sink your house into a swamp. Appliances, again, can be very useful, but you have to realize that many people buy high end appliances as codpieces and want you to know their BTUs are bigger than yours. Laundry offers similar hilarity, where you can be called an idiot for not knowing and calibrating the precise, to the tenth-of-a-degree temperature at which you cook, um, wash your clothes.

Internet forums attract a host of personality types, including people seeking help, people stressed out by mistakes or decisions, gentle souls, good Samaritans, pontificators, and, my favorite, people who refuse to actually read anything before they post.

But the folks on the Codpieces Forum are the humblest, most unassuming people I've ever met. Go figure. ;-)

I haven't really noticed any negativity, I mean if you ask for an opinion online you have to be prepared for different personalities tastes and wordage on your post. That's just the way it is.
I'm a real to the point person most of the time and have a very sarcastic sense of humor which often comes across "different" to many gentle types I'm sure.
I like one of the posts above that stated one should try to see the others perpective or just ignore.
The tic's that may go on here are nothing and I mean nothing compared to the political forums.

Yes there was a full moon a couple nights ago! :) that surely was the reason hehe

I spend a lot of time on a sports board where things can get really nasty, so the GW forum is very tame in comparison.

An occasional cat fight or pissing contest make me chuckle tho.

OK, after two years on here, I was FINALLY starting to feel a little bit like I was in the club. Even though I don't post THAT much, yall were beginning to feel like my big Italian family.

BUT, now I know I'm not a part of the club. HOW have you been hiding your posts from me about the shoes???? I've never seen it, and I've been here for TWO years!! PLEASE, so that I will feel like a true clubby, tell me what it is about shoes yall are talking about?? Whether to buy the Stuart Weizmans, or Payless? I would say whatever looks great on your feet!

Thanks! LOve yall!

I must have developed a thick skin or something, from my years on this forum. I rarely notice negativity, but now that I think about it, I tend to just glaze over those, and move on to the next post, never letting the negative comments sink in.

I do though think that some posters remind me of children who go to one parent, don't like the answer they get, then go to the other parent hoping for different. Some posters are really looking for validation of their choices, not actual advice. When they get advice contrary to what they'd hoped, they get upset, and view those responses as negative.

I myself am humbly admitting here to being a troll once or twice. The only thing that makes me become that way are posts that say something like: "Sinks! Which one should I get?" and nothing else. I do get testy by that kind of post, and furthermore, if you respond asking for more information, the OP either never gets back, or responds they don't know, and acts like you are attacking them, which then escalates with more posts. So, I admit it, I--on occasion--can be short and impatient. I always feel bad later....

Susie, I bet you've seen the shoes. I didn't remember at first either, because the ones I've been in have been here in Kitchens and have been very tame. Our version (being kitchen related) goes like this:

OP: How do you keep the shoes from piling up by the kitchen door?
Reply1: Chuck them out the door every time you trip over them.
R2: We wear our shoes in the house.
R3: Don't you wash your floors?
OP: We always remove our shoes when we come in. It's cultural.
R4: In Hawaii, everyone takes off their shoes when entering anyone's house.
R5: I'm leaving before I take off my shoes at someone's house.
R6: I went to a cocktail party in a beaded dress and Jimmy Choos and they made me take off my shoes so I wouldn't nick up their floors and I slid in my stockings on their bleeping shiny floors and my stockings were ruined and I felt uncomfortable the whole time.
R7: I'd leave!
R8: In Japan, people always remove their shoes before entering any house.
R9: I don't live in Japan. We take off our shoes in the bed room.
R10: It's dangerous cooking barefoot.
R11: Do you wear steel-toed workboots?
R12: We live near the beach. We just try to make sure the kids take shoes with them when they go anywhere.
R13: Don't you get callouses?
R14: I LOVE my callouses. I can walk on the hot sidewalk without getting burned.
R15: You'll get diseases!!! Don't you know you're walking in DOG PEE!!!
R16: Urine is sterile.
R17; Dogs do other things...
R18: My dog is cleaner than most people I know.
R19: I seriously doubt that, but there's no way we're walking barefoot on the same floor as our dog is walking on with his bare feet that have been walking on the sidewalk where all that dog poo has been.
R20: I can't cook with shoes on. It stiffles my creativity.
R21: You can build a nice set of cubbies with a cushion on top to be a shoe station that is its own bench.
R22: The shoes will still be in a heap because the little blighters are too lazy to put them in the cubbies. Just chuck them out the door.

It can't be me cuz I was away for 4 days. So get over yourselves; what evaarr.
JK
Casey

HILARIOUS, plllog! Along with the negativity is some pretty darn funny postings, too!

I have shoes at my door, many. Sometimes I build totem poles and high shoe tee pees with them.
Just thought I would add that because I missed the shoe story post.

Pllog, hilarious!

I have shoes at my door, many. Sometimes I build totem poles and high shoe tee pees with them.
Just thought I would add that because I missed the shoe story post.

Pllog, hilarious!

Yeah Pllog, that was truly a good one! I've seen those shoes/no-shoe posts over the years but have never had the desire (or courage) to jump in. And, Casey, the sharp wit of your post didn't escape me either! :-)

I do agree that it's been a bit bumpy of late. (Following my own dust-up on a controversial thread not so long ago, I've found a temporary retreat to lurking mode to be helpful). But, it's nice to see us back to doing a bit of laughing at ourselves. By far, this forum is still a largely warm, pleasing and "safe" space in comparison to so many others out there in the cyber universe. I guess that's 'cause, in general, TKOs do do it better -- with or without their shoes on! :-)

It's me, I just know it. Sometimes I just feel so... well, catty and then the claws come out. Like the time someone insulted my choice of Jimmy Choos over Manolo Blahnik. Well! My eyes went white and my paw lashed out at the keyboard and bam, I smote them.
{{!gwi}}
Courtesy of LOLCats

As the bigger animal than my insulter, I apologize for their error. Kiss Kiss, meow.

ROTFLMAO!

You want negative....check out the "would you buy a house without a garage" over on "buying and selling"...my goodness, I was shocked. I actually ended up putting in my two cents....all positive of course! For the most part I find everyone extremely helpful...especially here in kitchens. Thanks!

Hahahahaha, pillog! Talk about hitting the nail squarely on the head! I'm seriously considering one basket for right shoes and one basket for left shoes because lately it seems like the durned things are breeding during the night! *OK, see you all later...I'm off to the codpiece forum!*

There have been two shoes/no shoes threads I can remember -- the second wasn't a patch on the first.

The tipping point was reaction to notes pasted up on doors about "must dos" before coming into houses. Great controversy. The other issue was an ick-factor judgment pitting properties of feet and sox vs gunk on shoes.

They were hilarious until they took the inevitable dark turn.

A few of us have been here long enough to remember when Spike owned the site. No ads. No lost posts. No FKB or FAQs. No down time. No spammers. Back in that day there wasn't any negativity because Spike was a proactive moderator who -- at the very first sign of a disagreement, anything remotely political or religious, or much past grumpy -- sent a friendly reminder, followed by a warning and then poof! offenders were sent to Disney -- meaning that when they went to sign in, they got a link to Disneyland.

Of course, following a poster's trip to the teacups everyone behaved. Then there inevitably arose speculation (usually via email) about who had re-emerged with a new handle leading to fervent references (via jokes in posts) about whether it was true that so and so used to be someone else.

Yes, those were the days.

Plllog - cracking' me up!

Rococogurl - I too remember Spike, those were the days. Sigh.

To add to Pharaoh's Top 10 List would be any thread along the lines of "Disposal - batch feed or continuous feed, which one should I get?". For some reason, the furor over that question has died down in recent years. But back in the day, I used to get into it with Cpovey (aka Colin) whenever such a question arose by some unsuspecting poster. Cpovey was actually a great guy, with excellent advice, and even wrote a couple of the FAQ's on the Appliances Forum. Too bad about his poor misguided favoritism towards continuous feed disposals....We were at odds over that earth-shattering question of disposal type. Talk about negativity! We use to come to cyberspace blows. It all seems so quaint now.

As to the OP's topic, it's funny, but I miss Cpovey, my erstwhile nemesis. He doesn't hang out on the Gardenweb anymore as far as I know. Sometimes negativity stimulates us to thinking on a different paradigm, and consequently, in the long run, may be a good thing. I know that negativity is perceived as bad, but at the same time, if we "yes" someone because we want to be encouraging, politically correct, kind, etc., are we doing that person any favors? If they are misguided in their kitchen plans, maybe they need some negativity to get them to think on a different track. Perhaps the negativity, while painful, is better than us tiptoeing around which only leaves the poster with little gained from his/her post.

In Japan, people always remove their shoes before entering any house. But they have funny socks with big toes. My family doesn't have any socks. Clean ones, anyway.

Is this a negative or a positive post?

KILL Them with laughter and kindess!! THanks everyone for the good laughs!! I know it is normally warm and fuzzy around here. Guess that is why i am still obsessed with reading several times a day-- Sweet dreams to everyone!

"If they are misguided in their kitchen plans, maybe they need some negativity to get them to think on a different track. Perhaps the negativity, while painful, is better than us tiptoeing around which only leaves the poster with little gained from his/her post."

Absolutely akchicago.

and on that note;
Still a jealous shrew, huh mariposa?

OMG have you noticed that trees are a hot topic? I posted on another GW forum a while back about trouble with a tree- I got called a socialist by one or two posters that were regulars there. I had the idea that they were really the same person posing as two posters. You'll see it if you search my name. It was unreal.

Thank you for the shoe clarification. It had me in stitches ;)

BTW - barefoot in summer and shoes in winter. I guess I am an independent.

All I'll say to this thread is this: who the f really pays taxes for every bleeping online/out of state purchase they make? Seriously....who goes out of their way to calculate the sales tax, seek out some online form that is not linked anywhere and then write out a check?

Is this a non-sequiter? No, it is not.

I can't stop smiling. Lovely Plllog and lovely, Plllog. Constructive criticism and opinions may indeed trigger some bad feelings but that's not all of it.

What colors my perceptions is/are (covered butt on that one) the personalities who are mean, plain mean, or nasty sarcastic. These are people who think they are witty or clever or teachy. Teachy is ok.

I, too, think very sarcastically--- it is sometimes a way of life, or a mode of conversation. DH is the King of Sarcasm and I think of them as cheap, easy, shots. He is bad. After 35 years of marriage, I deal, but it's a cheap and stupid habit.

Our best posters are never mean. John Liu is a fabulous writer and never mean and always entertaining. Plllog, Boxerpups, Trailrunner and so many other kind, friendly, helpful, warm, sweet people make us come back to see what's doing. I love that professionals such as Palimpsest, LWO, Paulines, and others give so much sound advice. If any of these marvelous folks submit an op, I always read it.

I do not enjoy reading mean or sarcastic posts yet these posters seem to think that they are brilliant or witty. Not. They are not Johnliu, not even close.

I can't stop smiling. Lovely Plllog and lovely, Plllog. Constructive criticism and opinions may indeed trigger some bad feelings but that's not all of it.

What colors my perceptions is/are (covered butt on that one) the personalities who are mean, plain mean, or nasty sarcastic. These are people who think they are witty or clever or teachy. Teachy is ok.

I, too, think very sarcastically--- it is sometimes a way of life, or a mode of conversation. DH is the King of Sarcasm and I think of them as cheap, easy, shots. He is bad. After 35 years of marriage, I deal, but it's a cheap and stupid habit.

Our best posters are never mean. John Liu is a fabulous writer and never mean and always entertaining. Plllog, Boxerpups, Trailrunner and so many other kind, friendly, helpful, warm, sweet people make us come back to see what's doing. I love that professionals such as Palimpsest, LWO, Paulines, and others give so much sound advice. If any of these marvelous folks submit an op, I always read it.

I do not enjoy reading mean or sarcastic posts yet these posters seem to think that they are brilliant or witty. Not. They are not Johnliu, not even close.

Exactly, westsider40.

It is so tedious to wade through someone's neurotic narcissism interjected in what is mostly a very helpful resource. When I see posts that slide over the edge into self-centered high drama, I simply click on to the next. Life's short, and I try to avoid unhealthy behavior as much as possible. Some are too myopic to grasp the difference between pointed wit and petty mean-spiritedness.

Over the years we have all benefitted from those professionals who kindly share their talent and from the collective wisdom of struggling homeowners. I hope the snide and childish rants of a few don't alienate our good posters.

Still a ways out on my own kitchen so not around much but honestly I haven't noticed it being worse than usual. We all have our pet peeves and posters we just don't like (who in turn don't like us either). The good far out weighs the bad IMO.

Visit the antique forum if you want to see some real rudeness. One or two people over there rule the roost and if you should question their opinion (which is often complete bs) heads will roll lol. Is it really a life or death issue when discussing depression glass verses carnival glass? I visit on occasion just the giggle factor.

Then there is also the standard answer given.....something like, that's not Ming you idiot, it's just cheap crap. Sure you asked because the piece was a special item at grannies house and it's all you have left of her....but we still feel great telling you we wouldn't pay a nickel at a garage sale for it.

Much steamier than "should I use corian or soapstone?". (to which someone will invariably bring up the "p" word (ok often me lol) and all he'll will break loose.

Ok now I have to go read about that house without a garage lol

Wow! Interesting how many responses this post has attracted! As a kitchen designer, I know that a kitchen remodel, even in the best of circumstances, can make one a bit cranky. I often liken it to the birthing experience. It can be labor intensive but the pain dims as you enjoy the result for years to come!

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchens for Living

I posted something simple to understand. People started complaining about my bumping it. One person even responded with an old post of mine. It was a totally different subject under a different heading. It was posted a long time ago. Wow! Now that's petty!

Folks get a grip on yourself. A post is not personal. We are supposed to get educated from the answers.

Wonderful post, Plllog, thanks so much for the giggles!

When I first ventured into online forum communities (so long ago it was the last century, lol), a wise friend gave me sage advice. If a post gets your knickers in a knot, wait 24 hours before posting a response. More often than not, time allows you to realize that your initial reaction was emotional, stemming from a) how your mother treated you b) how your boss treated you c) how your ex- treated you ... it really doesn't matter what in your past sparks your initial reaction, the end result is the same: you read sinister actions/intentions into someone's post that are miraculously absent 24 hours later.

The other bit of advice my friend offered is to read your comments before posting them as if you are on the receiving end. If you wouldn't like what you wrote, then don't post it. I'm all for constructive criticism. It's the unkind comments I can do without. There's enough ugliness in the world, why add to the toxicity?

He offered his advice after I had already made an ass of myself but following it since has saved me from repeating that action. Not to imply that I don't slip up now and then, dang it, I'm human. ;-)

I posted to the Home Disasters forum when the inside of my brand new peninsula became covered in mold. I was freaking out and looking for help - and, yes, probably over wordy. But instead of asking for clarification, the response was: "Try leaving open windows and doors to get some fresh air. I think stale air may be the problem...For example, is it typical of you to ramble incoherently without pause?" But before I got a chance to see it another good poster had my back and responded "What a shame that some people can't help being rude when they post comments. Perhaps it's because they lack the vocabulary to express themselves in an insightful manner." This last poster continued to offer good advice along with others. So from time to time we have to suffer those that don't get it and move on. The majority of us are truly grateful for the advice we receive and take pleasure in helping others where we can.

What the heck happened to the rest of my post? I'm blaming user error. ;-)

Someone above mentioned how easily it is to misinterpret a post because it lacks tonal inflection and facial expression. So true.

Does anyone remember the Laugh-in skit with Ruth Buzzy and Henry Youngman as the elderly characters whose entire conversation consisted solely of the word "oh?" That simple two-letter word conveyed surprise, suggestion, disgust, condemnation and more, all manipulated by inflection and facial expression. It was fabulous! I was reminded of it when, years later, I wrote a post that began with the word "well." I meant it as a contemplative beginning. Another forum member took it as a haughty start. Oh, wow, did fur fly on that one and all because of a ridiculous misinterpretation. I've never started a post with "well" since.

I've noticed an air of negativity here lately. Could be a full moon, could be the economy, could be the tense political atmosphere, whatever, doesn't matter, I'm ready for it to pass.

LOL, plllog's post and all the responses were great.

Until then, I thought the shoe post was about those awesome red shoes a while back.

Steff,

It wasn't the purple Louboutins?

Torture shoes Plllog! I loved your other post. Yours and all the other posts that are so helpful to us. I've only been on here for a little bit but enough to know some names. It is so nice to have quick responses and genuine caring that is here even when it is the same question over and over.I do think Buel's advice is right, just wait it out. But there are people who have to be right. And they are right. All the time. Every time. Only kidding. Time makes it not matter. Igloochic, I never went to antiques but it is almost like hockey games to me when it gets boring a little scrapping is interesting. But I just watch.

I posted the photo from an auction catalogue on Antiques forum and got the response that with such a crappy picture they wouldn't pay $5 for it. It was an early 19th c. piece and quite nice.

Strangely enough that poster seems to love oak of the early Sears Roebuck variety.

I think the negativity happens when you get a critical mass of people who
--are being ripped off by their contractor
--are bewildered by the permit process
--whose granite is damaged
--whose new appliances are lemons
--whose knobs/lights/faucets are backordered
--whose sink is the wrong size
--whose project is 4 months behind schedule
--and way over budget.

Then they come to this forum and their frustration and anger just spill out.

I love people who complain about negativity by making negative remarks about other posters.

I would never do anything like that. :-p

Ah thanks Pllog for the explanation! We take our shoes off most of the time, but we all wear flip flops except for DH and he's allowed to wear his in, if he cleans them off good. :)

Now, I'm too curious about the house without a garage and the antiques! Don't sidetrack me like that, I live on this forum as it is!

OH, and just for clarification, Igloochick, what is the *P* word? I've sat here for 10 minutes thinking of every *P* word I can think of and can't for the life of me get a p from corian and soapstone!

Maybe we should all just buy the little blue booties for people to put on when they come in! They can put them over their shoes, or take their shoes off. LOL

P = Plastic
Correct, Igloochic?

Awesome purple Laboutins. I was going to counter with the Valentino Lace Booties, I tried to copy the photo but can only get the link.

The shoes I remember were strappy red holiday shoes, very Stuart Weitzman. The discussion was something along the lines of "how would these look in my new kitchen." Tried to find the thread, but no luck.

Negativity is best ignored unless it includes really wrong advice.

Here is a link that might be useful: Valentino Lace

Why, when I look at those shoes, am I reminded of Confessions of a Shopaholic?

Lol yes plastic is the evil p word. It does raise the hackles like no other counter top word would.

Lol pal....I know of the oak lover you speak. One of my favorite posts ever was when I asked about doing an antique tour (shopping at discount in europe or England with a group). Good gravy I was cAlled many a bad thing, including being told what a bad mother I was just for asking if anyone had ever done one.

I will say that I recently posted a question here in kitchens about a high end designer and while I hoped for some assistance I did expect a few sharks and was pleasantly surprised not to see any. That's a positive change in the forum.

I think a lesson we could all learn from this is to answer all posts with a succinct and impossible to misunderstand post that will never offend....to make all of our experiences pleasant and predictable

Just say Bob!,,

Plastic, plastic is the p word. Not soapstone, but corian. Igloo had nasty yellowing corian and it was beyond redemption, altho she did try. Corian=plastic.

But Igloochic, as a senior member, in age, not on the forum, I love plastic. I remember pre-plastic days and shattered glass and china, and hands and knees with wet paper towels, and eyes on floors searching for a stray shard- And Dustin Hoffman internally eyerolling when the parent's friend said the future was, "plastics". Forgot the title-what? Adorable brunette?

Following, laminate is and was wonderful. Laminate is plastic. So to me p is not a derision, necessarily. I have slate, carrara and wood floors. Natural products, but not treated naturally. Beach house has cheap laminate floors.

Natural v. synthetic? I love synthetic. Think penicillin.

And I confess that I did raise the shoes off in MY house post, last winter, in the middle of slush, mush, like how many times can I crawl on the floor to mop up the slop? And I had no idea shoes off had been done before. I had no idea it would be or be thought of in retrospect as so contentious. For me, the post was fun while it was happening. And again, there, Plllog came to my rescue. So there!

P.S. I am not picking on Igloochic or anyone. Ig is adorable. I simply like plastic and synthetic more than she does. Not a big deal at all.

Westsider, our Kitchens shoes debates have been pleasant and funny because we're pleasant and funny! I gather from Pharaoh's post that the shoes thing has been more rancorous at other times and perhaps in other GW forums. Ask people who sew about shoes on/shoes off and watch the fur fly!

I have to admit using the P-word several times when referring to Corian or laminate, but never in a negative way. Just statement of fact because people sometimes lose sight of the fact.

Oh, right!! The red shoes to match the kitchen thing! The Louboutins are from a thread from early 2008 about kitchen styles and budgets and it was very funny, but even with the enhancements at Google I can't find it, and the Wayback Machine doesn't have it either. Those lace booties are something!

The Graduate was the Dustin Hoffman flick...

I love those purple shoes! If my feet did not hurt even looking at them and I was not freaking out about paying for the work on the house, and if I was not too che... er... frugal, I'd buy them in an instant, lol..

Marcolo - you crack me up.

Warmfridge - yep, but you forgot the $%^*#@ architect who can't draw plans that the town will accept until it is months later and I am ready to kill! It is not his house that is being renovated/repaired in a NY Winter instead of Fall, as was the plan!

I learn something new here every single day, whether relevant to my project or not. I am surprised when I see a response that seems to jump out of left field from someone who is clearly not having a good day. I think some lose the focus of what we are all here for. Without GW, our friends and family would run from the room if they had to hear any more about our kitchens/homes/decorating. Without GW we would only know what we were told or heard "on the street". We would know so much less and our projects would turn out less functional and fun. I can't wait to have a finished kitchen to post and know people here will understand the thought and effort that went in way more than anyone I know in the real world (other than my hubby). I try not to drone on to others about house related stuff, and without this forum, I have no clue if I could stop myself, lol. Here there is always someone who knows something that is valuable. Often many people with differing useful opinions.
I can see past the negative postings and see all the good here.

Honestly, this is the most pleasant forum that I've seen on the Gardenweb site and maybe the whole internet. Others have mentioned the antique forum, garden harvest and the pets forum, but the absolute worst was the Japanese Garden forum about 5+ years ago. There were a handful of know-it-all's who treated all newcomers like imbeciles and things got very very ugly. That forum is all but abandoned now.

From my observations, it is always the "closed private party" mentality that gets the fighting started. The internet is largely a public resource and people have to expect anyone and everyone to show up and express their views or ask for opinions. If people want to have private conversations with only like-minded associates, then they should use email, text messaging or set up a private forum. The regulars here are pretty welcoming of the occasional posters that come and go which is what makes it work.

I imagine the reason this post is so popular is because as a society we still haven't come to terms with the limitations of written online communication, but at the same time it has exploded in common daily use. Who would have thought 10 or 15 years ago that we would be able to communicate with complete strangers from around the world in writing about every subject known to mankind? There is a huge learning curve as to how to deal with different personalities and different ways of communicating. This seems to be why, on any forum, questions of forum etiquette always receive a lot of responses. It doesn't matter who you are or what type of person you are or what you are discussing, you probably will have run into problems trying to communicate with someone online. It is just a imperfect system (not to sound negative).

One thing for sure, everyone here should pat themselves on the back for keeping things so civil as we discuss all things kitchen related.