DH and I enjoy the Antiques Roadshow and commented recently on the differences in the crowds at a show filmed in England vs one in the U.S. Almost all in both groups were dressed casually but the Brits seemed to have given some thought to appearing in public...not to mention on tv. The Americans too often appeared as if they had grabbed the clothes usually worn in the garden.

No doubt an extreme view but I think t-shirts should only be worn by perhaps 5% of the population...the object of clothes is to enhance not to just cover the body. Tanktops and flipflops should have remained at the swimming pool or beach...or possibly in one's own garden. LOL Actually a loose fitting shirt is cooler than a snug knit would be anyway, and it certainly is more attractive.

The tailor's rule is that a garment shold "skim" the body, i.e., move freely as the body moves. No matter what size/shape the body, clothes binding and stretching are unpleasant to wear and to look at. Ithink the popularity of knits is to blame...but even thay can be fine if sized and designed correctly. josh

But they are providing a public service! Why, just this Monday I was walking along the food booths at the Cinco de Mayo festival and every time I saw something that looked really really yummy that I hadn't had in ages (say elephant ears or soft serve ice cream) I'd see one of those nice ladies in line to buy one and it would help me to avoid temptation. I ended up having a tamale and a fish taco. Delicious!

Yeah, I know I'm AWFUL! I've learned to accept it. :)

Oh groan--I'm not overweight but there's a little of more of me than I'd like, never made more clear than when I was shopping for some clothes yesterday. I want to look terrific for our oldest granddaughter's graduation from college this weekend, but I'll settle for not looking like the 1,000-year-old grandmother! Now that I think about it, maybe I should be grateful I won't be the center of attention and stop worrying about myself, lol.

Well, I'm old enough to remember when females simply did not wear pants or trousers, except maybe in the dark of dawn while cleaning out the cow barn. I also remember my mother's voluble horror when I not only began to wear jeans, but wore them "out in public"--public being any place where we didn't own the land. The fact that I was ten y.o. and delivering newspapers by bike didn't change her view that girls were not supposed to wear pants, of any material nor for any reason. That may have been a beginning of normal adolescent rebellion, but at the time, I just considered that I was darn tired of mending rips in skirts that got caught in the bike's chain and my oldest bro's jeans were a lot more sensible.

These days [and for a good many past years], I don't wear skirts whether or not attached to be a dress. I have jeans, slacks, and suits; and I don't feel guilty or defiant or trend-setting. I have shorts, too, but (aha-Freudian remnants) I feel that I am both fifty years too old and not of sufficiently firm physique to be comfortable wearing them "in public". This is Virginia, where the peak of summer consists of six or more weeks of non-stop high humidity with temps from high 90 to 100+. Very lightweight slacks are actually cooler than shorts.

But, yes, the last time I was deliberately People-Watching, I noticed the extreme slovenliness of an amazing percentage of the passing population. Not just rolls of fat uncovered by shirt or flopping over pants, but stringy unwashed hair, scruffy 5-day beards (I've been told that unshaven is supposed to be sexy, but IMO scruffy just isn't attractive). And shirts too short to cover the belly or maybe the belly was too much for the shirt; butt-cracks in both genders; shoes with run-down heels and scuff-marks; excessively long fingernails -- when one is sitting on a bench, one can see that those nails are frequently caked with dirt under the polish; ugh. Too much cheap bling and way too much perfume seems to surround both sexes. Tank tops were mostly sloppy and quite frankly I don't care to see anyone's armpit hair while I'm eating ice cream.

BUT, the majority of the people weren't like that. Most folks were clean, neatly and nicely dressed -- even if the attire was more casual than would have been acceptable 30 years ago. Let's face it, I don't miss tight starched collars or gathered skirts or layers of underwear or heavy socks and shoes when it's 90 in the shade. I don't mind not being able to determine occupation by the outfit or the lack of determinable class status; and I don't mind that my everyday-joe friends are likely wearing the same styles of clothing as my millionaire friends.

As someone who last put on a pair of pantyhose a year ago to go to a funeral, I'm not going to argue for a return to the 1950's when my mother dressed in a shirtwaist dress, hose & heels every day during a family driving vacation to Washington, DC in August!

However, from my time spent sitting in airport waiting areas, shopping malls, and other places where large crowds of the public gather, there seem to be an extraordinary amount of people who apparently don't own mirrors because why else would they go out of their houses looking like they do?

And like Agnes, I have noticed an enormous number of truly obese people as I go about my daily rounds. Even more distressing, I'm noticing an incredible number of truly fat kids. I'm sure that when you get really big it's hard to find clothes that fit, let along make you look halfway decent. But what on earth would make a 200+ pound woman think that leggings were a good clothing option?

I have a nomination for the opposite side of this same coin!

Anyone else here ever visit Fashion Island in Newport Beach, CA? Oooooh baby, talk about people watching. Except this is the shopping mecca for the nouveau-riche plastic surgery victims who couldn't care MORE about how they look. Because of course it's about how you look and not-so-much about who you are on the inside. But I digress. lol

Fashion Island is where you find women packed into their pants, skin-tight tank tops, obligatory blonde hair all long and layered and poufy, big Jackie O sunglasses, tottering along on four-inch mules.

The men don't fit so neatly into any particular stereotype. But there is a slight odor of moneyed entitlement oozing from their fake-tanned skin. Twenty pounds of paunch, striped dress shirt with cuffs rolled up twice, maybe a discreet gold chain. And the requisite cigar which they light up on the walk back to their Bentley or Mercedes convertible. Or if they're really in a full-blown mid-life crisis, a red Ferrari.

I swear I'd laugh out loud except these people actually think they are spectacularly dressed and living the best possible life! lolololol

Karen

OOooeeeee Agnes, you are so so so lucky!!!! " I give thanks that those industrial strength bras are up to the job of holding at least some to that stuff in." I've noticed a few that didn't heed this thought, and it was just too much to stomach. What are they thinking? I mean, I try to say, hey, look at that person who is comfortable enough in their own skin, but it's too much skin; no matter what size. Cover up already!

I do not make judgments on the weight issue anymore. It's an easy one to take cheapshots with but I'm honest with myself that it could be me under different circumstances. I was rail thin until nearly thirty. A desirable thing in today's era, but I caught a lot of snide remarks until adulthood. There was nothing I could do about it. I ate like a stevedore, was healthy as an ox, but had a super cranked metabolism. I eat healthy natural food now, but my diet is rich in all those calorie and oil laden foods most people my age feel guilty consuming, and I eat until I'm sated and go on a toot sometimes and eat until I feel I could explode. It's the active nature of my work, and the activities I chose as hobbies, and inheriting good genes what keeps me a normal weight. The latter of which I had no control over.

I know beautiful fat men and women. No, not just in the face or personality, but physically beautiful. Fashions are fickle, but beauty comes in all sizes. I know skinny ones too, and many in between.

It's not like I don't know there is an epidemic of obesity going on now, but ones lifestyle choices are their own decision to make, and I have other nasty health habits, but for the luck of good genes would have been just as bad.

Also guilty of wearing really gross clothes for work. Gross but necessary for what I do. In the last few years, I have finally found some acceptable alternatives a little more socially acceptable for a sixty year old than logger boots, bibs and tank tops. If I have to go to town on a work-related trip, you will still find me caked in soil, sweaty and disheveled. Can't help it and it goes with the territory.

As for shorts, loved the freedom of super short ones. I still wear them on occasion, but they're likely to be to my knees, and with knees socks on, or like somebody else said, lightweight, slightly flowing tunics and trousers made in India and a pair of sandals. Very cool, quite comfortable. It also gives me UV protection since I hate using sunblockers.

andie_rathbone said: "I'm sure that when you get really big it's hard to find clothes that fit, let along make you look halfway decent. But what on earth would make a 200+ pound woman think that leggings were a good clothing option?"

If you know how to do it (it usually involves shopping online), it's entirely possible to look awesome even if you're fat.

I am a 200+ lb (roughtly 246 lbs, to be more precise) SHORT fat woman, and I think I rock the leggings, thankyouverymuch!

{{gwi:162206}}

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are some people out there who just seriously need to take a look in the mirror, but you don't have to be fat to look bad in your clothes. It is possible to be fat and happy and look good.

If you disagree, that's fine... but I think I'm cute. I've accepted that I am never going to be thin (believe me, I've tried... since birth) so I've decided just to deal with it and love myself... and that's ok.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kat Harding's BMI Project... interesting stuff!

Lookin' goooood Tisha, looking Good!

However, if you put those feet in flip-flops, took off the tights and donned shorts that rode up and got stuck, and let the boobs and underarm flab hang out.....well, I might not think the same of you.

The problem that bothers me, it not the overweight person, or the overweight person that wears what they have, or tries to look their best, but in the case of my people watching Wednesday, I DO have a problem understanding the women who had to have deliberatly put on shorts and skippy tops on a COOL day. They weren't at the beach, or working out at the gym. They were strolling around at a Mall.

I suppose that I am being picky, and I know it isn't any of my business how people dress, but in trying to understand the workings of the human mind, I simply can't get a handle on exposing flabby naked skin. Mid-summer, with the temps over 100? yeah, I might could buy that. But in the high 70s or low 80s? It must be something else.

Thanks.

And like I said, "Don't get me wrong, I agree that there are some people out there who just seriously need to take a look in the mirror, but you don't have to be fat to look bad in your clothes. It is possible to be fat and happy and look good."

Yep, Rocking!

By the way, I was referring to the scantily clad bunch. No excuse for that regardless of size. Save it for the house (maybe even the bedroom, I'm kinda funky that way). I am a part of the generation who wore hats and gloves, and unlike others, I miss it. It was a more respectful way to look.

Tisha..You're one cool lady. I've often wondered why they call it people watching. It should be called people judging.

Yes, it could be called "People Judging" except that it includes children. And usually they are just that and nothing else....children being children. Now that all of ours are grown with kids of their own, it's nice to watch the little minds turn and ponder the world. The big eyes, wide smiles and turned up noses. The tiny fingers pointing out special things..and best of all, watching the looks of amazement at things that we, older, wiser, and more experienced, just take for granted.

Thanks, MWoods.

And I agree about the judging. But I'm as guilty of it as the next person.

Agnes, it doesn't sound like you were trying to be mean, but would you even much notice that a slim, cute girl was wearing shorts, flip flops and a camisole top when it was 80F out? (And around here, 60 is an excuse for the kids to break out the flip flops, while 80 is summer celebration time.)

Thanks to those, especially suzy and tish, for shifting the somewhat punitive tone of the thread. I'm not quite sure why watching fat and/or badly dressed people go about their business seems to be such a source of interest for so many people. Is it truly disgust? Schadenfreude? Something else?

I remember the first time I went to France as a teenager, and all of the American men we were with alternately ogling topless women at swimming spots and passing judgment on those deemed either too old or too fat to air their wares. I think I figured out then that it's not supposed to be all about who's looking, and that there shouldn't be two classes of citizens: those attractive enough to be free and those who should have the self-awareness to know they don't measure up and should cover up.

There are things I don't like in public either--those striped rubber shower clogs people wear on the streets, or visible underwear, the top three inches of anyone's thigh, guys walking around with their shirts pulled back over behind their head (thereby cleverly eluding the "no shirt, no service" rules), sweatpants at airports, baseball caps in restaurants, etc. And I've worked in fashion (men's fashion, which is at least a little sane), so I at least partially buy into the idea of dressing intentionally and dressing well. Maybe I'm just reacting to this thread personally, because between my appreciation for good food, my middle aging and a medical condition, I've gained more than a little weight over the last 5 years. It dismays me enough as it is, without the added burden of worrying that, on those occasions that I carelessly choose a garment that is not perfectly flattering or doesn't effectively hide my imperfect shape, I'm engendering such contempt in my thinner peers.

You beat me to it, Marda.

This thread seems to me to be about people judging not people and children enjoying. Passing judgement based on a person's appearance.

It has a rather self satisfied tone to it.

I think I didn't get my point across very well. Which is that I simply don't understand why people don't seem to care what they look like.

I confess that I don't try to impress. I wear what's confortable around the house. I skip the make-up and the jewelry even when I go out. If I were a man, I probably wouldn't shave unless my employment required it. But I would try to present myself to others, pleasantly. I don't pick my nose in public, I don't belch loudly in a good restaurant, and my clothes will cover up those parts that other people might think offensive.

I am not trying to judge. I really, really would like to know why some people don't seem to care what they look like IN PUBLIC.

And just in case I am going to be misunderstood again....

Am I the only one here that sees a difference between the 300lb woman (or man) with a shirt that covers the stomach neatly and a shirt that allows the roles of naked fat to jiggle out from under a too short, too snug shirt?

"Which is that I simply don't understand why people don't seem to care what they look like."

I honestly think a lot of times it has to do with self-esteem. Especially us fat folks... most of us have heard it our whole lives... have been made to feel inferior. After a while, you start to believe it and just don't care anymore.

BUT, that's not to say that I think it's right. I honestly think that if some people would take a look at themselves (fat or thin!) and start to care more about their appearances, they'd feel better about themselves.

BUT, that's also not to say that someone has to feel bad about themselves, just because they're dressed frumpily.

I guess you got it across well enough, because that's certainly the part with which I am agreeing. That is, be respectful of yourself and towards others, even in dress.

and why should be we even care what someone wears? I suppose if someone is butt naked and you have a little kid along,it might make you uncomfortable to say the least but for everything else..how could it possibly matter? Heck..go to France or Italy and they make us all look like crapola.It's just a value judgement based on our own idea of what looks "good." We all do it,some more than others. When I see a photo of a beautiful celebrity who looks like hell warmed over because she was caught very candidly,I get warm fuzzies all over. That's just another side of the same coin.

I'm with Agnes.

& I can't bear the heat, so I'm in shorts & sleeveless tops most of the time.

but my belly is covered, my shirt doesn't gape between the buttons, the casual observer does see the outline of my underwear (any of it), & my shorts are nearly knee-length & they do not bind & chafe & ride up.

I think the problem is the size of the clothes more than the size of the people;

clothes that are a little bit too snug make you look bigger.
clothes that are a little bit too big make you look smaller...
& they don't chafe, gap, ride up, etc.

What does it matter to the "public"? How is it anyone's business?

A more interesting question for me, Aggie, is why do you care??

Pay attention Shelia.... I DON"T care. I am just trying to understand the WHY. WHY do some people care about how they appear in public and some don't?

What is so difficult about that question that makes it so easy for you to misunderstand? And what is wrong with trying to understand people? I have actually known people to go to college, study, get degrees and make a career of trying to do exactly that.

Nevermind. What you think means as little to me as my opinions do to you.

Aggie, maybe the simplest answer to your question is "low self esteem" for those that don't realize that their butt is hanging out, thier boobs are better left in the top, or the guys with their beer belly hanging out from a too short top. Maybe they don't care much about themselves so therefore don't care how they look.

As for Tisha, you look amazing!

My mom is heavy (200) but she always dressed with style and realized that certain parts of her should remain covered. I on the other hand have always been on the thinner side, but still feel that parts of me should not ever be shown in public! Now, around the house I look like an A-1 slob, when I garden I look worse, but when I go out I like the feeling of looking good but am aware of my age and what fits and what doesn't.

Linda J

Whoah! LOL. I guess I got put in my place.

(whispering) my name is spelled s.h.e.i.l.a. pay attention. :)

You know,maybe it's just a matter of they do care how they look and this particular look is ok with them and they are fine with it,in the same way as a kid with a gazillion piercings all over his face. He thinks it looks good. We can say we don't like it but to say he doesn't care how he looks is insinuating there is only one way to look good and that's OUR way. Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Very good point Marda, what is beauty to one is ugly to another. Guess that is why God created us all equal, but certainly NOT the same!!! LOL!

Linda J

I just got home from my yoga class. The mantra suggested by my teacher for our meditation--said in one's mind, not aloud--was something like this, (I'm paraphrasing), "Let us remember to treat ourselves and others with loving kindness". (This may not have any relevance to the discussion at hand.)

Tisha, you look great... self-assured and confident...not the folks I was referring to at all, who just didn't seem to care.

I suppose one's personal appearance can be looked at as we look at houses and gardens...which can appear relaxed and casual without looking totally uncared for. Like the woman who kept the vacuum in the living room to indicate she was just about to start cleaning, and the hedge clippers on the back stoop...most of us have good intentions. LOL josh

To quote my mother....just because something is in fashion does not mean its in good taste. Hiphuggingbuttcrack-jeans may be the latest style but quite frankly id rather not look at someones a$$crack while dining.

Nor do I want to see your underarm hair when you raise your arm in your tank top, nor see "intimate details" when the cold wind blows. If you have big boobs, rein them in, if your belly is fat, cover it and if you are wearing stretch pants, make sure they don't have to stretch too far.
It's not a matter of fashion, but of details I don't want to see. Treat yourself with loving kindness is correct....be kind enough to yourself to not open your self to the embarassment of people NOT wanting to see your "intimate details".

{{gwi:155452}}

38 in. waist 240 lb. 58...
{{gwi:162208}}

32 in. waist 140 lb. 22...
{{gwi:135598}}

Older, bad knees, slower metabolism, need to improve the diet, guess I am in the same boat as a lot of others. We are all fighting the environment we are in, bad food advertised to the hilt, etcetera, etcetera. Think I will go back to vegetarianism. I still have to drag my but up a tree.

That said I do notice a lack of dignity in many that should know better. We humans have a habit of pushing the limits of social norms. Could this be the new rebellion?

Nothing new about pushing the limits. And some of those pushes actually become acceptable. Remember the 60's bell-bottoms? Unfortunately often worn by a long-haired, unkempt hippie draped with peace symbols. Those are sibling to the "boot flares" now worn by almost everyone, everywhere. And that particular rebellion had even better offspring in dragging inequities into the open -- maybe not yet corrected, but at least acknowledged.

But I don't think this thread was about weight, but about the suitability of dress, and why anyone would consider it acceptable to appear in public without at least the attempt to be clothed appropriately. And I guess that (appropriateness) smacks right up to the topic of local social customs; what I as an older generation semi-unliberated female consider socially acceptable attire is NOT necessarily what most younger people would consider acceptable. And what I accept is likely not what someone a generation older would accept (me mum probably spins in her grave every time I step out the door wearing jeans).

So yes, when I look at someone who is not dressed for the occasion, I'm being judgmental (that's a survival instinct) but I also acknowledge that it's a biased judgment based on my own viewpoint of what is considered socially acceptable, and it wasn't all that long ago that I was the one pushing the limits of socially acceptable attire.

meant to say people do *not* see my undies.
I don't like to look at underarm hair, either.

& I like for men to wear shirts.

hard to believe, sometimes, that I'm of the generation that came up with bikinis for women & bikini swim trunks for men...
but even then, those body-revealing clothes went with toned bodies.

I'd have been mortified if my parents had tried 'em.

I used to work with a woman in her mid fifties who bought very cute, very expensive clothes. Unfortunately, they were designed for very young women, and didn't suit her body style at all. I think that her problem (and the problem with a lot of people) is that she would look in the mirror and see the clothes, but not herself IN the clothes. Yes, that little shirt is cute, but your belly fat showing in the gap between the shirt and your pants isn't.

Marilyn, I think that is an astute observation. I had never thought of that.

Unfortunately these people show up for job interviews in the same lovely outfits and then have the nerve to wonder why they arent hired.
Showing up at your boyfriends grandmothers funeral in a$$crack jeans with your thong hanging out is a sign you need a fashion mentor or a keeper.
Showing up for your class field trip to Chicago in your pjs and house slippers is a sign of what....brain damage???
The problem, as i see it, is good taste and common sense are a thing of the past with these people.

I'm considered pretty conservative around here. I don't wear clingy clothes, spandex, etc. I insist DS teenager wears untorn, unwrinkled to visit grandparents, and try to stop the jeans from showing more than two inches of his boxers. Other than that, oh, well. Personally I have more trouble with his slouching and bad posture. I'm a teacher, and I don't like kids coming to school in beachwear, ie. very short tops and shorts. Parents don't get it and when we try to insist, there's trouble.
OTOH, I have not shaved my arms or legs since I was 14, and then only enough to realize it's not for me. Therefore, there's very little, since the constant removal makes it heavier. But heaven forbid I should wear a sleeveless shirt or skirts at work!!! I'm called dirty, unkempt, un-feminine and slovenly. By my co-workers. The judgement is amazing. My tattoo, though, is ok. Odd.
As a young girl in the late 50's, my mom put my sisters and I in blue jeans and my grandmother (she of the white gloves) was horrified. I also get in social trouble cause I don't give a darn about what's in fashion, just what looks decent and is comfy. I wear no makeup, don't dye my hair. (I'm not going grey, I'm turning silver). I refuse high heels. I have, however, been known to paint my toenails and wear perfume!! There are many here who try to look forever 19, and it's silly & a waste of money, men as well as women. People watching for me is a constant delight and I do it all the time, and yes, I sometimes wonder if they own a mirror, but, frankly, I wonder more about their lives and hopes, than their clothes. There is a thin line between "allowing" folks to dress as they please and too much information, but the fashion/beauty industry has some folks so besotted with image that many just toss the baby out with the bathwater. Fashion dictates that thin people's clothes should just be made larger for the un-thin, so I ignore them. What I really find disturbing is the trend encouraging pubescent girls to dress like 20-something sexbombs, and the lengths to which parents will go to go along with it and exclaim how grown up they look. But that's another thread.......Batya

Honesty Quotes

If we were all given by magic the power to read each other's thoughts, I suppose the first effect would be to dissolve all friendships. ~Bertrand Russell

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to put its pants on. ~Winston Churchill

Those who think it is permissible to tell white lies soon grow color-blind. ~Austin O'Malley

With lies you may get ahead in the world - but you can never go back. ~Russian proverb

Pretty much all the honest truth telling in the world is done by children. ~Oliver Wendell

Always tell the truth. Even if you have to make it up. ~Author Unknown

Thanks so much to all the Garden Party members for allowing me to do the quotes for the week.

I am assuming that this is the old thread that you were referring to..didn't bother reading all the information..but all i can say is..

What not to wear..t v show

Well, all I can say is: I've seen fat from both sides now. From a skinny teen and into young womanhood who thought I was fat to an overweight granny who can't seem to shed the pounds. I have days when I swear to lose the unwanted weight and others when I say "to hell with it. I'm tired of fighting the battle" and no ones looking anyway. I sincerely hope I don't leave the house with my jiggles exposed.