>>Stored in a paper sack rolled up at the topDon't give up,..sometimes it takes some years to find out ideal
storage practices.

Try next time to put into plastic bag,..same way rolled up on top, and perhaps not store 11 day's prior in room temp.
Fridge storage would be better.

Hell, I just ate a Goldrush that I picked almost 2 weeks ago and was sitting in my kitchen. A perfect apple- sweet with some tartness, crunchy, juicy and somewhat aromatic.

Gave one to a client 3 days ago from the same bowl and she called it the best apple she's ever eaten. I've never shared one with anyone who hasn't raved about this variety but I'm certain there are people out there who won't like it. Still, this one has helped me sell scores of trees.

Maybe your soil or weather isn't right for this apple or maybe you and your family just have different tastes than folks I've shared it with. I don't think your problem could be how you are storing it. GR is not that fussy.

My apples tasted significantly different this yr than in the past. Ginger Gold was better than Golden Delicious. That's not usually the case.

With stone fruit I need 2-3 yrs of good fruit for a couple weeks each yr to form a solid opinion. So I think you are being a bit hasty to turn thumbs down so quickly. I'd say apples vary more yr to yr than most fruit.

At the very least, the tree needs to be mature. Sometimes first fruit is the best the tree every produces and sometimes it doesn't match up. Many varieties do vary a great deal from season to season, but as long as the growing season is long enough, Goldrush has been extremely consistent for me. I've been harvesting it for well over a decade. A tree I had first got cut off from the sun in the afternoon and was not as consistent.

Mine are as Harvestman described them. My Jonagold seem more tart this year.

Gold Rush is my #1 apple and #1 tree. It may not do well in Southern hot desert climates, though.
John S
PDX OR

My very first year of GoldRush was not as good. Rubinette was really extreme, it was downright bad for two years before it became my favorite apple. Trees don't uniformly feed apples properly when they are immature.

One other thing to watch out for is the counter ripening, it often leads to rubbery apples and sometimes the flavor is also not so great.

Lastly make sure to pick them as late as possible, I am in a warmer area and I picked most of mine two weeks after you did.

Scott

I have to agree with Appleseed. I've had mine in storage in my spare refrigerator for well over a month , and I find this apple to be very over hyped and quite disappointing. It's a very ordinary apple and I find it hard to understand why people rave about it so much. It's a precocious apple and I get tons of fruit, but it's the only apple I grow that stays covered in sooty blotch every year. It's nothing more a palate cleansing taste of apple, and after I've had one, I don't want another for a long time. Maybe it's just a personal taste thing, but I've had it with this apple and I'm going to top graft most of the tree.

Ray, how sweet are your GoldRush? It should be really sweet. If its not sweet you might need to thin your tree more to get higher quality fruit.

Not every apple is good in every spot or to every person but I'm surprised its not at least a decent apple for you. I just pulled one out while typing this and my son ate half the apple while I was eating it - he kept coming back for more. I would say the downsides are hard flesh and lots of sours, those can be turn-offs to some people.

Scott

RR, If Goldrush isn't thinned, like most apples, the quality won't be good. The tree is a heavy setter, but it most definitely is not over-hyped. I've even read accounts of growers of Goldrush complaining of distributors unwilling to sell Goldrush because of its inadequate size, but begging for apples for themselves.

I could say Honeycrisp is over-hyped because I don't love it and it's hard to grow here, but people as a whole actually do love that apple, however I may experience it. Same deal with Fuji for me, although I do like that one when I'm in the mood for a sugar apple.

I believe that for most people that have tried it, a well ripened Goldrush is a top 5 apple, but there is no apple that appeals to everyone or that performs well in all conditions and management. Some folks are turned off by acid in fruit and those probably won't enjoy GR until about February out of storage.

A way to test if your GR are up to snuff would be to check the brix, which is close to 20 in a well ripened Goldrush. If it is lower in your apples than you haven't tasted Goldrush as grown here.

I finally got to try a goldrush at the Farmers Market the other day. I was buying a bag of honeycrisp and the vendor tossed me one and said here try this. It was very sweet I liked it better than Honeycrisp I should have bought a bag of Goldrush instead. I will be planting a Goldrush tree for this coming year.

I have thinned this apple, quite a bit, and it doesn't get much better. It's probably a personal taste thing. To me, it's just an ordinary apple, and there are better apples to grow. That's why I've decided to top graft most of the treee. Some of you guys like tart acidic fruit, I don't.
To me, there is nothing sweet about this apple, but I do like that it's hard and crunchy. It's a change of pace apple, but nothing more.

Harvestman I get what you are saying, but Honeycrisp is a bad comparison. You cannot compare HC to GR no matter what any of our opinions are here. Honeycrisp is a monumentally superior apple to Goldrush in every regard. I knew that would be the case even before I tasted Goldrush. I can easily say it's superior because it's easily the most sought after apple on the market today and it's incredible proliferation is more than adequate proof of that. Even breeders aren't bashful about copying it and trying to attach themselves to it like in the case of SnapDragon.

I had another one last night and I must say my opinion of GR has even further declined. For me Goldrush needs to be peeled, I can't stand the texture and hardness of the skin...it doesn't taste bad or anything, it's just that awful texture.
There are other small apples on the market today so size isn't a total barrier to market entrance and GR isn't that small to begin with. The fact that you don't see Goldrush in the markets is very telling if you ask me. If GR were truly able to be folks "top five apple" why then do we not see them at Walmart's produce section or in the supermarkets? Growers would have no issues supplying them since it's a heavy reliable cropper, DR, supposedly stores well, etc
The answer is that it's not a very attractive apple, likely doesn't have wide appeal and growers and wholesale produce buyers do not believe it has serious market potential. I think they are right. While the flavor may appeal to a few here in the real world against the likes of Honeycrisp it simply has no chance.

We here on the forum (myself included) tend to turn up our noses at apples that are successful in the markets thinking our taste is somehow more refined or whatever. The fact of the matter is that while people do indeed have different tastes the lion's share have very similar tastes and that is what the markets want and what the growers want to grow. Honeycrisp is a Goliath in this arena. It will not and could not EVER be challenged by something like Goldrush. It is more attractive with better flavor and texture and the crisp breaking flesh is rivaled by no other apple. It is unquestionably better in every single way. The fact that it is perhaps more difficult to grow and has still managed to acheive such level of market dominance is unarguable proof of that imo.

I wish I liked Goldrush, I really do. If I didn't want to like it I wouldn't have planted it. I found myself wanting to find qualities in it that didn't exist to make me feel better for making a poor choice.

We here often say that good backyard apples aren't the same as good market apples. This stems from the Red Delicious debacle and I don't believe holds true anymore.
I think the qualities that make good apples for market can be, and in most cases are the same qualities that should make them attractive choices for backyard trees.

H'man...I understand you were stating your opinion and it's a valuable opinion to me, but I disagree. I do not believe that most people would rate Goldrush a "top five" apple. In fact, I don't think it would be even remotely close to that. Honeycrisp would rate a "top five" ,and indeed it has. Markets have a way of sorting out the winners and losers.
Honeycrisp made it big time....Goldrush has managed little more than a tiny blip on the radar screen. There is a reason for that.

I did an unscientific taste test between a Honeycrisp and a Goldrush from my fridge and both are equally crunchy to my bite. I actually like Goldrush crunch to Honeycrisp. My 9 year old came over took a bite out of both and without me questioning her she said this one is sweet sour and this one is really sweet and grabbed the Honeycrisp and walked away. And that was fine by me because I prefer the sweet sour more than really sweet Honeycrisp.

Appleseed, I don't look down on Honeycrisp just because it is popular. But, being popular isn't really an indicator that it is a great apple. You yourself noted Red Delicious. It is popular because many people shop with their eyes. It is a very capitalistic idea that markets will determine winners and losers. But, by that argument you would say that Red Delicious is the best apple, as it still has the largest market share (at least in Washington state). From that, we can clearly see that markets are not good at determining which apple tastes the best.

That said, the market is starting to catch on. In the 80's, RD made up ~75% of Washington state's production and has fallen to less than half that level. Apples with better flavor like Fuji, Pink Lady, Braeburn, and yes, Honeycrisp are now mainstream. Some really good apples like Lady Alice and SweeTango are starting to become popular.

But, the market will still always lag behind what I consider to be a good apple because it values appearance. I would be fine with a Knobby Russet (kind of like a lumpy potato) look, if it tastes the best. In fact, three of my favorite apples are russets, something rarely seen in the store (Golden Russet, Ashmead's Kernel, and Hudson's Golden Gem).

I lost most of my Goldrush to some animal. I went out to pick on 11/11 and while they had been there a few days before, they were all gone. But, I've found a farmer's market which has them and have been very good. I sample at least 40-50 types of apple each year and Goldrush is consistently in the top 5.

I think Goldrush's visual problem isn't that it gets bad sooty blotch, as fungicides take care of it. I just got some from the farmers market last week which are large and pristine. The bigger issue is that it looks too much like Golden Delicious and apple sellers want each apple to have a distinctive look.

I agree with Konrad on the storage. Every time I've stored apples in a paper bag, I get wrinkling/shriveling. This happens even to apples that would otherwise have kept for far longer.

Appleseed, that's all very dramatic, but, of course, the vast majority of the apple consuming public has not even tasted Goldrush. It's been kept from the commercial world because of the difficulty for commercial growers to make it huge, I gather. I bet most of the public that buys Granny Smith would prefer Goldrush if they knew about it and could purchase it.

On this forum, amongst folks who eat all kinds of apples, Honeycrisp is not really such a big hit, and I've never seen it place first on a preferred apple list of any obsessive apple grower/lovers who have been doing it long enough to have a jaded palate. I'm sure there are some out there, of course, who are moved by the big cell crunchiness of HC, but it really isn't a very interesting apple beyond its texture to many of us who sample a wide range of apples season after season.

I'm not a big fan of most pop music or Hollywood block buster movies either. You can assign motives but it might be just about taste.

Not everyone likes a high acid apple. A good Goldrush shouldn't have an off tasting skin so I don't know what that's about but what does it really matter anyway? Find the apples you love and grow them. I'm glad I don't love Honeycrisp because GR is a much easier apple to grow and store. More often than not, Honeycrisp doesn't reach real good quality in my climate and often drops off the tree prematurely.

I'm curious what is your favorite apple in January.

I really wish I loved Liberty. Keep the PC off that one and it just lives to fruit. Some folks do love it, and that's just fine with me.

Bob...I think you got part of what I was getting at and missed the other. The russeted apples you spoke of I think aren't just non-existent in mainstream markets because of their looks (though no doubt that plays a big part), they are also unpopular because they would be difficult to produce at a price point competitive with other varieties. Consumers simply wouldn't pay the money. Now I'm not saying they wouldn't be worth it, but it is what it is, and production cost and crop reliability are real concerns.
The shopping with their eyes is a good point, but it's not necessarily an invalid consumer choice either. Looks alone aren't enough though or William's Pride would be in the markets since it's more visually appealing than HC, but it's not, because it isn't good enough (for whatever reasons).
You're right in that the market is starting to catch on. I read that by I think 2020 Honeycrisp would be the most widely planted apple in the world. I assume this includes the names it goes under in different countries. There is a video on youtube topworking entire RD blocks to HC. New England growers have coined it's name "Moneycrisp".

Harvestman,,,I didn't realize I was being "dramatic". but I digress...you were talking "top five" and everything...so...uhmmm yeah.

I also understand that I'm not with the "those of us" who "eat all kinds of apples". So I get it...I just don't know any better. If the growers are having a tough time selling it to the public is it possible that it's because it just isn't good enough? Possible? Markets have to rely on sales to more than those of us on this forum.
If you haven't seen HC highly rated in taste tests I don't know where you are reading at, because I certainly have and yes...by obsessive apple people who often lean to the antique and odd varieties. No doubt too some will put GR up there near the top too. Maybe because they love it or maybe because they want to distinguish themselves as real apple aficionados who have jaded taste buds.

My favorite apple in January? Well...I dunno but I know it will not be GR since it's declining rapidly from an already unimpressive beginning. I guess it might be Honeycrisp.

This post was edited by Appleseed70 on Mon, Nov 24, 14 at 3:00

Appleseed, I wrote that I'm sure there are those who taste many kinds of apples and have long lived in this crazy world of fruit obsession that would put Honeycrisp on top of their lists. I wasn't talking about consumer taste tests, and didn't mention them.

I also suggested that you, Appleseed, can supply your own idea of what are the motives of the many apple "gurus" who aren't so impressed with Honeycrisp. Of course, then other people can tell you what your motives are for trying to pigeon hole these gurus for not loving the apple you love and we can stupidly go round and round.

You don't even know if the apples you are eating taste like the Goldrush that I'm eating. Have you purchased any grown in other orchards and climates? Why is it so important for you to assign your own experience as definitive?

Honeycrisp is replacing Red Delicious as the most widely grown apple in the world, so it isn't necessarily all about being the most delicious apple. Actually I predict this forecast is wrong- there are too many club varieties being bred to mimic the big cell crunch of Honeycrisp, which is actually a tribute to Honeycrisp.

Can you understand what I'm saying when I call Honeycrisp all about texture? It doesn't possess any real character of flavor because it lacks aromatics. This may increase its appeal the way a catchy pop tune does by not being too complicated. Strong personalties don't usually become class president.

Of course, then other people can tell you what your motives are for trying to pigeon hole these gurus for not loving the apple you love and we can stupidly go round and round

Ok...I thought it was you who in fact "pigeon holed" those who liked it into the group without experience in apple eating (??).

Why is it so important for you to assign your own experience as definitive?
Yes...that is my question to you. Particularly when that position would find you in a very miniscule minority all things being equal. I also don't know who these MANY apple gurus are who aren't impressed with HC. That's not what I've read...nearly all are very much impressed with it. Even the British, and apples are their "thing".

Honeycrisp is replacing Red Delicious as the most widely grown apple in the world, so it isn't necessarily all about being the most delicious apple

OK good point. So if it isn't about the best taste as indicated by market demand...then WHAT is it? By your own experience and that of your contacts it is as you said "twice as hard to grow as any other apple they grow". There was no advertising campaign of significance...so what then is the reason? Uneducated sheeple following the consumer in front of them at the check out line? Willing to pay more too.
I also agree with you on the prediction because as you say too much breeding from the HC line is being done. I actually think HC will supplant RD and GD as the ancestral parentage of most future apples and probably for a long time. At least until something better comes along. Maybe they can breed one that tastes like pizza so you can find it "interesting" (just joking ...lol).

Can you understand what I'm saying when I call Honeycrisp all about texture? It doesn't possess any real character of flavor because it lacks aromatics

No, I'm sorry Harvestman...I do not know what you are saying and I disagree about the flavor. Agree about the aromatics but GR isn't going to win any awards in that area either...both by my experience and that of printed literature. Mildy aromatic...both of them.

Strong personalties don't usually become class president.
Agree. Like the apple you and Scott were discussing that he liked and you didn't because of the licorice flavor. Therein lies just one issue I agree with you on. You are either going to love it or hate it and that may be based on your affinity for licorice. I love black licorice so I should look into that apple.
So while I get your point here I still fail to see how that's a negative for HC. That simply means it has more widespread and broad appeal which is just one of the reasons it is so successful. It's really all about the whole package though and yes...the big break juciness that is unrivaled.

There is no parallel to Red Delicious and Honeycrisp. Honeycrisp is not popular for ANY of the same reasons that led to RD's proliferation so comparisons between the two are baseless. In fact, HC is the anti-RD.

AS, I'm glad you are so infatuated with HC. I hope you have a long and happy marriage with it. If only the HC trees rewarded loyalty.

HC didn't work out for me after a 12 year relationship, as the apples don't actually grow well in my own orchard or in others I manage, but Goldrush regularly provides me and others with fantastic apples that I have widely distributed to rave reviews and many tree sales. The apple also holds up through winter, which I think you may not find happens with your beloved HC in your own storage.

The folks I've grown GR for that aren't in love with it don't actually much like any but sweet apples. Please let me know what tarts you adore- how bout Cox Orange Pippin?

I usually get a few perfect Honeycrisp after others have dropped or rotted and they are a nice enough apple with an absolutely amazing kind of crunch- they just don't have enough zing for my palate. I happen to like more acid and a harder apple that will carry me through winter.

The reason I love Goldrush isn't just because of its taste off the tree- there are a hundred other apples I can enjoy eating that way- so many different flavors and textures, I can't actually choose a favorite there. Macoun, a perfect Baldwin, Suncrisp, Fortune, Pink Lady, Newtown, Erwin Bauer, Zestar, the list goes on and on.

It is the months that follow and the year after year dependability that has made Goldrush my champion.

I notice you haven't commented on others who have posted their direct comparisons of GR and HC and actually prefer GR. I also notice that you haven't commented on the idea that maybe yours are not the same as mine. That's strange to me.

How many harvests of GR and HC do you have under your belt to inspire such loyalty towards the latter?

Purdue's description of Goldrush: "The fruit is characterized by a complex, rich spicy flavor with a high degree of acidity and sweetness. Acidity moderates in cold storage, resulting in exceptional overall quality after 2 to 3 months. The apple retains its complex sprightly flavor and crisp, firm texture for at least 7 months at 1 C. The cultivar has been rated consistently as the highest quality apple after storage of all selections or cultivars tested at Purdue Univ.”

And lest you think that is Purdue breeders prejudice here's how a prominent Cornell apple researcher and commercial grower describes Goldrush

"Merwin is enthusiastic about ­Gold­Rush. Between his home plantings and a research block he planted at Cornell in 1994, Merwin has about 1,200 trees of that variety growing on M.7 rootstock, and it is one of their most popular varieties. It matures late�"but not too late for upstate New York�"and is disease-resistant. “After a few months in regular storage, Gold­Rush after-ripens to a golden perfection, with rich aromas and an intense blend of sweetness, crunchiness, and crisp acidity,” Merwin said. “It is a very productive and precocious low-vigor variety that needs a strong rootstock,” he said. “It’s a really unique apple. People start asking for them a month or more before we pick them. I think it grows better in northern regions than in hotter areas because it needs a few October frosts to ripen properly. It’s usually the last one we pick, about November 1.”

Boy H'man...you sure are quick with the sharp tongue.

Ok...so you found people "enthusiastic" about Goldrush. Awesome. Allow me to insert MY words in my original post.

This is a very often suggested/recommended apple here and is held in high regard virtually everywhere. I just thought I'd post my experience with it.

Ok...so you have proven to me what I already stated I was well aware of. Good work.
Do you think I could not do the same with HC? Of course you don't think that....easy peezy...right?

I don't doubt GR can be good and I hope it will be for me. I DO think as Rayrose said it is over-hyped. Also I think it will not be that rare that the season is not long enough to properly ripen GR in upstate NY, despite what Merten's scribe says, ACN does NOT recommend it for northern growing districts. It DID NOT fully tree ripen here and that may be one of my issues.

As for addressing others comparisons I have addressed Bob. H'man why does it have to be a "direct" comparison H'man? Is it because that renders rayroses non-"enthusiastic" and supportive review out of the mix of 4?
What I find strange (actually I don't because I familiar with this tactic) is that you have failed to address my simple plainly worded question about WHY ( what you are so certain of is true) has Honeycrisp been a smashing hit while Goldrush is virtually unknown. WHY? There may be a reason I haven't contemplated and I'm interested in learning, but so far all I hear is that #1) I harvestman have more experience 2) jaded taste buds 3) Apple gurus dislike it 4) Appleseed and millions of consumers don't know any better 5) My client's love GR 6)GR sells scores of trees for me 6) something about pop music 7) class presidents
8) Hollywood blockbuster movies 9) I have a lot of experience

Ok...surely with all these strongly held notions and vast experience you must certainly be able to answer that one very, very simple question.
Why has Honeycrisp succeeded famously while Goldrush has not? This is all happening right in your own backyard.

NY orchards have no trouble delivering metric ton after metric ton of fresh HC ready for market, yet you an experienced professional cannot grow but a few (your words) late apples? I find that strange given your experience.

AS, from what I gather, NY growers consider HC the most difficult apple they grow- they put up with all the difficulties and low pack outs because of the high price per bin- even for rather mediocre Honeycrisps- at this point the name Honeycrisp is almost enough all by itself- it takes a long time to damage such a strong reputation, I think.

I have to admit, I haven't tried real hard to make Honeycrisp work beyond experimenting with different fungicides. I suspect that if I double my spray output and bring it to near commercial level by adding several calcium sprays I will be able to get these trees into reasonable productivity, but the trees can't seem to draw what they need from the soil.

I have a customer who I believe will be willing to go the extra mile to make his two Honeycrisps productive, so I will see if the need for supplementary foliar calcium is the root of my problem. If I personally liked the apple more I would have tried this years ago, although for the first couple of seasons I had no rot problems with Honeycrisp. It is possible that I'm doing something else wrong, but this is one of the few apples that I have such difficulty with.

What I'm trying to do here, believe it or not, is steer people to varieties of apples that will bring them joy to grow. I don't think it is useful when novices exaggerate the importance of limited experience without at least looking at the info out there.

You may have noticed that many only value Goldrush out of storage- obviously most Americans aren't used to high acid apples (which I love, especially when they are also high sugar). How can you call an apple over hyped when you've never even eaten one that has been "properly" matured from 2 or 3 months or more in storage- the guideline of the actual breeders of the apple?

I believe Honeycrisp can be excellent in different regions, in Z4 it is a "Godsend". Imagine how New Hampshire growers must have felt when they found they could grow apples "better" (more popular) than anything coming out of Washington state after centuries where northern growers had to settle for lesser varieties.

There may well be places where Honeycrisp is as excellent an apple in the home orchard as it is for high input commercial production, but it is almost as difficult to store as it is to grow- HERE in NY. It's virtues are lost in the oven so how many are you going to eat in a month or so?

What I am saying about experience in eating many varieties of apples over many years is that when I started growing apples my favorite 2 varieties were Fuji (the Honeycrisp of the late 20th century) and Mutsu and my favorite pear was Korean Giant. Exposure to many, many different types has completely changed my preferences, not just about specific varieties but even general qualities. It also renders me immune to going ga-ga about any particular variety for taste alone. The tree needs to be reasonably easy to grow.

You are very quick to dismiss the experience of growers with thousands of times your experience and a lot more on the line. Merwin has enough seasons under his belt to know the range of Goldrush- if they weren't good he couldn't sell them. He's talking about commercial production and most northern growers in NY state are growing near lake areas where the growing season is somewhat extended. This is likely all all Goldrush needs.

I was surprised out how well my Goldrush ripened its fruit after a very late spring- it was the shortest growing season we've had in years- but I did wait until mid-Nov to pick it. We'd already had 2 hard frosts.

Harvestman, Your comment about the roots not taking up enough calcium gave me a thought. I think I remember previously reading that you grow most of your trees on MM111. I wonder if that is part of the reason you have so much trouble with Honeycrisp. In the recent Apples 2014 thread, it was mentioned that William's Pride on MM111 as a strong tendency to develop bitter pit (one of the main issues Honeycrisp also gets). They referenced a Perdue writeup which warned about this. Maybe another free-standing rootstock like B118 would do better?

I know you like to produce high quality fruit, so it wouldn't surprise me if you do plenty of thinning. This article describes how to avoid bitter pit on Honeycrisp and one of the charts is pretty interesting. On page 16, there is a graph showing the impact of fruit size on bitter pit. At low to mid size BP incidence stays low, then increase dramatically at larger fruit sizes.

I'm not saying that the above would make it easy to grow- that obviously isn't the case. But it may help in situations where the client really wants Honeycrisp. Apologies if you've already seen and considered all of this (a distinct possibility).

Thanks Bob, these are issues I've considered- besides the possible danger of 111 rootstock- I have had similar issues on at least 2 other rootstocks. I'm thinking maybe a less vigorous one would be better, although I am managing two that are side by side, one on 7 or maybe even 26 (not from my nursery) and one on 111 and both trees are rotting way way too much fruit.

AS, it is funny how you overlook certain words to make you feel in the right and creating conflict that isn't really there. I did say that I'm sure some long time apple grower-variety fanatics would put HC on top of their list- I just don't happen to know of any but I clearly qualified that.

It could be because it is such an obvious choice or it could be for the reasons I suggest or it could be because of the limitations of my own general and anecdotal survey. I certainly tried to convey the message that one likes what they like and should embrace the path on which their personal palate leads.

As far as your question and assertion about my not responding to your question of why Goldrush hasn't been a smashing success, it was actually in my text when I mentioned that I believed and have read that it is a size issue. Americans, in all their gastronomic wisdom, like super-sized everything, including apples. An article in Goodfruit Magazine told of a grower who claimed distributors wouldn't take Goldrush because they aren't big enough to sell, but after sampling them wanted to buy them for their own use. Do you remember my writing something about that? Go back and review.

Their is also luck and having the right name that goes into the success of rock stars and rock star apples. I think I also mentioned that Goldrush is highly acidic and Americans, unlike the British, go for low acid, cornsyrupy like sweetness (OK, don't get excited, I admit Honeycrisp isn't actually in that category). The niche market for tarts is already taken by Granny Smith, another quite grower friendly apple.

Now if growers would sit on it and try to market it only after it had been in storage for a couple of months, maybe it would be a winner as it is a very popular apple where it is available at farm markets.

Bob, I just read the link you provided, it was very amusing as well as confirming to every thing I've been saying here about Honeycrisp as a difficult to grow apple. Bitter rot is my main problem. I think I will reduce how much pruning I do on the trees I manage and see if that helps.

Perhaps Appleseed you might rethink coming so quickly to your conclusion (that is if your willing to learn). There just might be several factors that in combination caused the GR not to live up to its reputation for YOU. My experience with GR concurs with HM but I personally could care less whether you like Gr or not. It's your loss.

" Honeycrisp is a monumentally superior apple to Goldrush in every regard."

That's the completely mistaken statement that got my gander up (I have edited out a much more sarcastic way of saying this). Instead of getting all worked up defending my champion, I should simply have stated the areas where Goldrush is superior, which I did, but in a state of excessive excitement.

I don't believe there is any apple variety superior to other top rate apple varieties "in every regard". Plus, meaningful comparisons are years in the making. Some experienced growers say it takes 10 years of growing them to accurately evaluate a variety- but this forum would be dull if we waited that long.

At least we are all passionate about our fruit here.

I think you will have to wait until your apples are stored correctly to evaluate them Appleseed. Yours sound nothing like GR. Another crazy apple guy is Adams Apple Blog and he describes GR exactly what I have found them to be. He also considers Honeycrisp just a really sugary apple with a good bite to it. Perhaps you just like sweet apples and that is just fine.

This post was edited by johnthecook on Wed, Nov 26, 14 at 19:40

Hmmm.... I love them. Great straight from the farmers market when they were really tart and bold. Great 2 weeks after storage on a kitchen counter. But how are they for pie? I guess I'll find out tomorrow. My family has long been Baldwin people for pies, but I just can't get them down here in VA.

I don't grow them and I don't have enough to worry about long term storage, but I'll seek them out whenever I can.

I think you will find them superior to Honeycrisp in that "regard". They certainly hold their texture better when baked than almost any other apple and add plenty of zing. Some like them mixed with some sweeter, softer apples (think Jonagold), but I think they are great all by themselves in a pie.

That is one beautiful pie! It would probably be palatable even if you used Red Delicious.

I believe many people, as they age, tend to be attracted to more acid fruit- that is before they get past their 8th decade or so. Someone wrote about this idea in Pomona (the old NAFEX publication) many years ago. I think my appreciation for tartness increased as I got past my 4th decade.

It is interesting how the attraction to tartness also tends to be somewhat regional, with folks in warmer areas generally liking fruit and desserts (and their iced tea and mint juleps) with more sugar. I've no idea if climate actually has anything to do with this, with warmer weather increasing the craving for sugar, but it seems to me to be a world-wide phenomena.

Of course, the stronger the sun, the more sugar in the fruit, as a general rule. People do tend to like what they are used to and what they learned to like as children.

That being said, I actually love a perfect mango more than a perfect Goldrush, so I can "swing" both ways.

H-man. My desire for tart fruit has been with me since childhood. I'm past my 6th decade now and my desire for the sweet/tart apples/fruit have increased. You always make me think outside the box. Happy Thanksgiving H-man. Bill

zendog, please report back on how that pie turned out. Bonus points for a picture of a slice!

anybody, where can I get some of these sugary Honeycrisp you are talking about in the Portland area? I loved them the first couple of years I'd tried them and now for years all of the local ones I can find aren't worth eating. I don't think it is just a change in my palate. I recently started using my refractometer and discovered that our typical honeycrisp is 11 or 12 brix!

An enjoyable Opal measured 16 or 17. As did Envy which was pretty good but perhaps a bit insipid.

Fuji seems to have gone the same way as Honeycrisp. They are watery and bland, sometimes starchy green tasting.

Appleseed70 ,
I planted Gold rush this year so I sure hope it's not a decision I'll regret. I suspect the Kansas sun and lack of water in the summer will make them sweet. The problem as mentioned in other forums and on here is likely to much water or other factors such as soil type etc. We raised some cantaloupe once and the first part of the year they were the best we had eaten and then it rained and then we could not even get the chickens to eat them after that. There is nothing worse that mediocre fruit and I know you know what your talking about when it comes to fruit. I suspect it's as mentioned all about location and how that fruit grows in that location. When I eat a Georgia peach it makes me ashamed we even grow peaches here but there is something about that place that produces the best peaches I've ever had. Even on a good year the peaches I grow can't compete with their flavor. Maybe give it another year or two and see if the flavor improves.

We grew spinach one year in a new spot and it had an offensive metallic flavor and could not be eaten and since then it's tasted very good from the same spot so I wonder if sometimes there is an excess micro or macro nutrient in a spot that gives food an off flavor for a year or two.

I made my pies with Jonagold and Goldrush this year and they make a good pie. I have bought Honeycrisps many times at the store and very rarely do I find them perfect. One time they had a funny after taste, another time brown, they do always have the crunch it seems. I think as has been pointed out they seem to be a fussy grower from different regions.

I hope to finally get a good crop in my fourth year from my Honeycrisp tree and will be able to compare my locally grown HC with my GR. My GR in it's 3rd year in the ground gave me about 50 apples on both trees and that was after thinning.

Murky, I agree- the Honeycrisp I get are not sweet apple, like Fuji or Golden Russet. Maybe sweet-tart. The better ones are around 14 brix, with plenty in the 11-12 range. Three years ago (before I got a refractometer), I picked some stellar Honeycrisp. They were so good, I questioned if they were really HC (and am still not sure). Even so, they weren't a "sweet" apple. I would describe them as a dense, strongly flavored "sweet-tart".

My Honey Crisp and Gold Rush are only two years old but the infos on this thread telling me that these two apples sweetness won't even come close to my Red Fuji.

Tony

Goldrush has as much sugar as Fuji, but the acid changes the affect. Lemons have more sugar than watermelon- or so I've read. But lemons don't get sweeter in storage. If you want a sweet apple just give Goldrush time.

Maybe Honeycrisp is overhyped and over planted. Here, very warm weather just before it ripens seems to turn it into an average apple with amazing crunch, but inadequate brix. Washington ruined Red Delicious so maybe they are in the process of ruining Honeycrisp. It was bred in Minnesota after all.

I was actually kinda let down when I ate my very few Goldrush from last year that I had saved. Was expecting a good mid winter Goldrush and I all I could taste was Golden Delicious sweetness. I know that's what happens to them in storage, just surprised me how sweet they got.

Aboout 6 weeks ago I purchased a bushel of Goldrush from a grower here in west-central Georgia. This person grows fruit for a living, and I've had approximately 15 other apple varieties he grows. Last May he was selling Goldrush that had been in cold storage, and they were excellent. Thus far, the bushel of apples stored in my refrigerator has done very well. I just ate another one, and it continues to be one of my top 3 apples.

Most people who grow and love to eat lots of apples like apples that are more complex in flavor, like Goldrush.

Most people prefer bland sweet flavors like Honeycrisp. Most of them don't grow apples and haven't tried many apples. I didn't particularly like apples until I started trying different kinds of apples at tastings and found some, like Karmijn da Sonnaville and GOldrush, that have lots of flavor. Honeycrisp is also a much bigger apple = more profit and more advertising/publicity. Part of the point of this site is for growers to share ideas. It's ok if one like Goldrush better and one likes Honeycrisp better, but there is no obvious superior, etc. apple. It's just a preference.
John S
PDX OR

Bob I also had good Honeycrisps right after they came out but not since then. Recently I had a SweeTango, it was even better than my memory of the early Honeycrisps. I would even call it a great apple, whereas Honeycrisp was nothing more than a great crunch for me. Get your SweeTango now before the quality there starts declining as well :-)

Scott

But then I would just be depressed I couldn't grow it. I'd rather not know. I'll be a senile old man before it comes out of patent.

It is a good feeling to grow the best fruit you've ever tasted.

Don't worry, it wasn't that great.

I confess I'm not looking forward to the future of all the controlled varieties, some of them might even be amazing. Hopefully more "open" breeding efforts will eventually get going to fight the trend.

Scott

On the flip side, maybe if Honeycrisp had been more controlled to who can grow it the quality would be better. I'm sure the controlled varieties are about making money, but as I have written above I can't remember eating a quality Honeycrisp from the supermarket.

Actually there are already plenty of amazing types of apples to grow, I just wish there were more amazing apples that were easy to grow, because at my orchard it just keeps getting harder. My Pink Lady and Braeburns were, I think, badly damaged by stinkbugs this year although it is hard to tell bitter pit from stink bug damage for me.

At any rate, my Goldrush nearby has never suffered this kind of injury (or calcium deficiency) and the vast majority of the crop is sound enough for long term storage season after season, knock on wood.

I just cut a 15 brix SweeTango store bought. It tastes and crunches about like the best Honeycrisp I've bought. To me that's not good. All they've got is texture and I don't find that nearly enough to make up for lack of flavor. Again all store bought.

Neither was nearly as good as my Ginger Gold at 16.4 brix and sweet/tart this yr. I'm not saying GG is that great most yrs just that I haven't found the others to be very good at all from the store. Most HC from store have been 10 brix crud.