The Toro Super Bagger is simply a LB 10795 painted red as you guessed. I have basically the same thing in a LB 22271 commercial. I wouldn't call it 'light' and 'maneuverable' but it is one heck of a machine. I'm going to steer you to the Home Depot Lawn-Boy because it's a smaller 20" deck and Briggs & Stratton engine. I also recommend the self-propelled. The Xenoy-deck Hondas are like the Super Bagger - not exactly a 'sports car'.

Here is a link that might be useful: LB 10646

Thanks for the comments.

That's one of the machines I've been considering. There have been some comments about engine and wheel problems with it out of the box on Amazon etc. I've looked at it several times on my trips to HD and it does look pretty good for $280. The size is perfect for my lawn and the space I have for storage. I guess the only way to know about it is to buy it and try it, if it works great if not there is the Honda. I do wish I could look at that Toro though.

Are there no Toro dealers in your area who aren't also Honda dealers? The Toro Recycler 20352 would be a step up from the Lawn-Boy 10646 due to its larger bag capacity, better mulching, and Personal Pace RWD self propel system. Since you're upgrading from a manual reel mower, Personal Pace is ideal for you because there's no bail to hold down or lever to squeeze in order to activate it---all you have to do is put your hands on the handle and walk. The mower automatically adjusts to your speed as you vary the amount of pressure you put on the handle, which you do unconsciously as your walking speed changes.

If you'd rather stick with a non-self-propelled mower, the Lawn-Boy 10645 would be a good choice. The workmanship on it most likely is better than that of any MTD mower (Yard Machines, Yard-Man, Bolens, White Outdoor, Troy Bilt, and Cub Cadet), making it a good value for the money among non-self-propelled mowers.

Hope this helps.

There are common dealers. I've visited 3 and talked to several others. None are at all enthusiastic about the Toro. I don't know if there's just more profit in the Honda line, if it's a California thing, or it's what they think I want to hear, but when comparing Honda with the one or at most two Toros (the one you mention and the FWD version), the Honda is ALWAYS better. They do carry Toro commercial, but those are way out of my budget. I've gotten the feeling from them that it's more or less a requirement for them to carry those Recycler models in order to maintain some dealership commitment.

Thanks for your positive comments on the Recycler. It's 22" maybe a little large for me, but I'll take another look at it.

If your budget allows you to go up to around $600, then the Toro Super Bagger 20192 is a good choice. At 80 pounds, it's light for a self propelled unit. Moreover, it's got an aluminum deck (no rust) and an innovative bagging system that doesn't require you to hold open a spring-loaded door with one hand while removing and re-installing the bag with the other hand (i.e., bag removal/re-installation is a one-handed operation). You'll appreciate the convenience of this bagging system every time you bag leaves.

I had an "online chat" with a Speedway sales person today about that one; $569 in stock, free shipping, no tax. It is very tempting. I did wonder about the mulching capabilities of that model and the sales person said it was very good. The only thing my local dealer could tell me was that he could order it for me at full list price, he had no other information about it.

Very good point about the bag. I mean I have tons of leaves in October between the Magnolia, Pistache (pepper berry tree), Crepe Myrtles and the Camphor.

That reminds me. Can anyone comment on how a power mower handles things like hard small berries? Think small pepper type berries. I've been wondering whether a mower would be damaged by such things and whether I could use one to clean up after the Pistache tree drops the berries in the fall. It's a beautiful tree in the fall, the only color we have here in San Jose, but really messy.

FWIW, I've never had any trouble handling Dogwood berries with a power mower. However, I don't know how similar they are to pepper berries.

Those objects won't hurt the mower, and act as 'tumbling media' in the deck, cleaning out dried grass sludge. I agree with tarheelman's recommendations, except I purposefully did not recommend Personal Pace to you because of your small yard with probably lots of pullbacks and push-pull areas. Personal Pace does not do well in tight quarters because the wheel clutches drag on pullback unless the mower can roll forward with no pressure on the handle. Sometimes it's difficult/impossible to do this and the mower becomes an obstinate mule, almost like it's trying to really get under your skin. The Variable Speed drive is great. When you release the bail, it instantly becomes a push mower with no drag. The LB I referenced is only 70 lbs., which is in the area of the old 2-cycle LBs. Shipping damage is to be expected with on-line mower purchases. I'm two for two on that. They do not ship mowers in the unopened factory shipping cartons - they take the mowers out and display them. When you buy one, they literally throw it back in the box with screws/fasteners/small parts loose and no packing between the handle and mower. Combined with UPS dropping the box, shipping damage is a certainty. It's usually minor, but it sure ruins your day when you're expecting a perfect new mower.

I have had the Personal Pace Toro and have never experienced the pullback problems Sax describes. Maybe they have fixed that issue in later models?

If you want a top of the line basic mower but still want quality and duribility then you should be going with the Honda powered Husqvarna 1021P 3in1 push mower with rear bagger.This mower has what you want and more without breaking the bank.
This mower is affordable,lite,and easy to manuver plus Husqvarna's been around for some 200 years or more.

Check out: http://www.husqvarna.com and see for yourself.

The mowers you are considering are all very good units too but they cannot offer you a mower like what Huasqvarna will be able to offer you and for the same amazing price.
I just bought a Husqvarna 1021P and it is amazing!I looked at alot of mowers before I decided to make my decision to go with Husqvarna.I would not trade my new mower for 6 honda's or even 5 toro's etc.
After checking out Husqvarna.com I went to my local Husqvarna dealer here in town and showed him the model I wanted to buy.He had to order it and I was told to come back in 3 day to pick-up the new mower.When I returned to the dealer a few days later the mower was already assembled and ready put to work.The salesman even showed me how to operate the new mower and then he help me load it into my van.All of the extra service and special ordering etc was totally free!
The service at Taber Small Engines is amazing!

I was unsure about the PP style drive systems in my small space and that's why I was leaning towards push models. I think the front would be ok with PP, but the back is a small, tight "bowling alley". If the drive system on the LB allows for easy pullback that might be better for now.

Thanks for the advice on on-line mower purchase/shipping. I would have thought they would just have on shipped unopened from the warehouse, but I guess they don't want to carry the extra inventory of display/warehouse stock. I really don't want to deal with hassle of shipping damage to save $100 or so.

The Husqvarnas look pretty good, I have seen some models at OSH and one local dealer recommended them over the Toro, but the specs. are listed at 102 lbs. dry. The Toro, LB and the Honda push model are 20 - 30 lbs. lighter. That's quite a bit less weight for a weakling to move up and over the deck and around the tight corners of the house to get to the back yard. The weight issue is one reason I'm not seriously considering the Snappers, 106 lbs. dry and empty!

Just in case, is there any real hassle returning mowers to HD? I know the return policy is 30 days, but don't know whether they give you a hard time or not. I would love to patronize a local dealer, but when they don't provide the products you want Big Box or on-line is all that's left.

My suggestion is to spent money to buy a lower line commercial mower.
I live in the bay area. I just bought a TroyBilt top-of-the-line self propel less than two years ago, electric start mower. What a piece of garbage. I have been trouble shooting why the grass don't go into the bag that well anymore. Check the blade, wash the bag. The deck is so thin that it deform from hitting something. I have to hammer it back to get a good seal on the side discharge port. It rusted under the deck within a year. One wheel is dangling!!!. This is for home use only!!! I paid $375 from Lowes. I am starting to shop for a new mower only after two years. I am looking into Ariens and Snapper type with at least the Kawasaki FJ180v engine. Maybe even a toro or Honda commercial. It has been flustrating.

I am a little worry about buying Honda because people have been talking about Honda is not good at honoring warrantee. I had bad experience with my 10 months old Honda trimmer that they deny warrantee, claiming I used old gas. I use only 91 octane, less than a month old. Later, I actually open the carb and found metal fragments inside, I fixed it myself!!!
I am on all the lawn forums and quite a few people said they have problem getting warrantee repair from Honda. So this is something people should think twice on.

I know Honda make very good mower particularly the twin blades. But what good if they don't honor the warrantee. Buy other brands with Honda engine, maybe that will be better.

"There is a Snapper dealer 20 miles away and I've looked at the models at the Snapper website, but the comments seem to be that the baggers don't mulch well and the mulchers don't bag well. I don't know how valid that is. The Snapper dealer suggested the cheaper SE line might be what I would want since it's the more versatile homeowner machine. I found that a bit of an odd comment though. "

I have two Snappers and it is an odd comment. Though mine are bouth mulchers they bag well enough when I choose to. I woudn't want an SE model though. Look under the deck of the different mower mfgs and models. Snapper is the simplest design and the easiest to keep clean. I mowed my lawn today with a Honda HRC216 and had to stop to clean the deck due to short but damp(dew) clippings. I've never had to clean a Snapper deck while mowing.

To Sibelius

Since you are in San Jose. Just want to let you know, the dealer I have bad experience with is GardenLand in Cambell. They are the one that don't want to listen to me when I brought my Honda trimmer in because of the carb problem. I explained to them that I use new gas, but they just put down old gas and charge me $150 to change the carb on the 10 month old trimmer. We argue, and they finally reduced down the $85. But the trimmer never work right. It was back to the shop twice since and finally I was sick of driving over and took the old carb that was bad and open it up. That's when I saw all the metal fragments inside. The jet was clog and I have to use a guitar string to push it out. I put it back together and put it onto the trimmer and everything was fine.

So if you go to a dealer, remember this name....Gardenland of Cambell.

There are two different school of thoughs.
1) Buy a real commercial mower for about $1000 and up keep, pay for service.( over $100 each time) or.
2) Buy something for about $200 dollars where you can get a self propel one and treat is as disposable. Don't laugh if you get two to three years out of it. If something happened, dump it and get a new one, you always have a new toy. Get those factory reconditioned for less and try your luck. OSH, Home Depot or Lowes have plenty of those customer returns. If you get more expensive ones like a commercial, you might want to get it from a dealer because you are committed to have it service in the future.

I would not pay $400 or $500 for a consummer model. If it break, you going to fix it or not?!!! Easily $150 a pop!! It is not only just the engine, the deck, the wheels and the tranny. They all can break. I am a gear head, I want the best.......I paid $375 for the top of the line one and see where I am at now!!! I am going to buy a true commercial and maintain it myself. I ain't paying an arm and a leg to have the dealer doing the repairs.

JMHO

Yungman,

Thanks for relating your experience at Gardenland. It's disappointing to hear. If I decide on a Honda that is more than likely where I had planned on purchasing it since they are literally a two mile straight shot down Curtner from my house.

I've been there a couple of times. I never got the feeling they were a bad dealer though. I didn't get much sense about them other than they really want me to buy a loaded HRX machine no matter how many times I suggested it was overkill for my lawn, my finances and my technical capabilities.

As far as warranties go, I don't think there is a dealer of any product that sees warranty work as anything other than a thorn in their side, a money loser even if they are reimbursed by the mfgr. But that's the reason they give for their added cost, servicing the product they sell better than "Big Box, Inc."

That being said people like me who don't have the knowledge, skills or tools to do the repair and maintenance rely on dealers for service after the sale. I remember reading a post here suggesting the best thing to do is find an independent mechanic that doesn't sell any mower and use them for service since it's their bread and butter.

Thanks for the heads up and I'll keep it in mind.

People in Gardenland are very nice until you need service!!!! I don't have any recommendation on other dealers. I bought my back pack blower from MMI in Sunnyvale since. But no experience on service. I am planning to fix everything myself. I made the mistake of letting Gardenland took care of the trimmer thinking it is under warrantee. I know it is the carburetor already, figure why fix it if it is under warrantee. The mading thing is even after paying $85, the trimmer never got fixed. I have to end up doing it after all!!! Gardenland make a lot of fuzz about old gas, they make you watch a video about old gas before letting you go after buying stuff. And when they know I am a home owner, they just don't even borther to listen anymore and came back claiming old gas. They did get very rude when I started arguing. I am actually consider buying online if the price is a lot cheaper and maintaining it myself.

Mower do cut grass, cheap or fancy!!! That is the reason I make two suggestion, one of them is buy cheap and use it as dispossable. My TroyBilt is MTD which I believe make Craftsman and Cub. The deck is very thin, you hit something, you bend the deck!!!. YOu can try the Toro lower model in Home Depot.

It all depend on whether you just want to mow the lawn or you want to get a fancy mower. I want a fancy mower so I am going for the commercial one, if you are not, save the pain of dealing with the dealer service and get dispossible one. 3 of the $229 mower only add up to one decent mower, you are not going to get 7 to 8 years on one mower without any service. That would be $150 on top of the mower!! I like fancy and I am handy, so I have the commercial option.

Trouble free for years is over rated. With cheap mower, have trouble, buy a new one, still come out ahead. A lot of LCO use cheaper mower also, I don't think anyone can argue about 5 Craftsman out last one of the best commercial mower and much cheaper before you consider the maintenance. If you worry about warrantee, go to Sears and Lowes, they might sell extended warrantee. I bet they do honor the extended warrantee much better than dealers. I have a lot of experience using extended warrantee from big stores and I found them all very very good. They have to, they are in consummer market, they can't get away what the dealers can. If you want commercial stuff, you have to get it from the dealer or online.

'Get those factory reconditioned for less and try your luck. OSH, Home Depot or Lowes have plenty of those customer returns.'

Excellent suggestion and something I've done several times. The mowers may not be perfect but should be easy to fix. Sometimes they're missing parts or accessories. I have bought LB 10323 and LB 10684 this way and both turned out to be great mowers with a very little work.