Well I have a front yard that gets a good deal of shade, some areas no more than an hour or two of direct sun. For this reason I decided to go all TTTF last fall. So far it looks great, but the summer will be the true test. It's a good choice for Maryland since you are in the upper transition zone. Some of the newer TTTF is very nice looking, dark green, much finer bladed than the old stuff, and even exhibits slight rhizome activity (but it is no KBG). If your lawn is often moist and matted then you might be mowing a bit too high, or maybe you have drainage issues. This can lead to brown patch in the summer, a major drawback to TTTF. If you wanted to you could mix in 10% KBG (use a shade tolerant variety), which will give you some spreading ability, and better sod quality, although it will probably do poorly in the very shady sections. You could also add creeping red fescue to the mix, which is very shade tolerant, and it spreads, but very, very, slowly. Whatever grass you decide to pick be sure and check with the NTEP trials to see which cultivar does best in your area, and perhaps ones that are the most resistant to brown patch.

One of the sites I was reading said that you shouldn't mix a TTTF with other types of seed, didn't give and explanation why though. Ideally I would like to do a TTTF/KBG in the sunny area and then a TTTF/creeping red in the shady areas.

Here's what I had good luck with recently....

Check out the NTEP results for your area...
Contact one of the seed manufacturers listed in the NTEP report and ask for a local distributor.... meaning a Turfgrass company in your county or close by (Not a home store)

Call said local distributor and ask what will do best in your specific application -- likely, they will be able to recommend something that is proven out successful in your area...

Buy that product and apply per their specific directions at the time of year they recommend... Their directions will be calibrated quite closely for your actual local climate...

This is what I did, and I have 50 lbs of Scott's Gold Standard tall fescue mix + starter fertilizer on the way from my local turfgrass company for Mid August delivery...

Now would be a good time to do soil testing, make repairs, correct cultural problems like poor drainage, and start working on getting corrective amendments (Sand, clay, lime, etc...) done...

Thanks

John

I agree with john in sc to an extent. I wanted to plant a mix of three cultivars that were testing well on the NTEP in my area. I found a supplier for two of them, the second one I couldn't find anywhere, so I called the grower and they put me in touch with a seller. The only problem is sometimes you can only buy a large quantity this way. John you bought Scott's Gold standard tall fescue. I assume this was a mix of a few cultivars. If so, were they the ones you wanted? Or did you just settle with the Scott's mix? One of the cultivars I used was a Scott's seed as well, but I bought all my seeds separately.

Back to mixing different types of grass. It's done all the time, and most seed companies tell you their KBG mixes well with TTTF. It's very common to find seed mixtures containing three types of grass at your local Home Depot or Lesco. You need to keep a few things in mind though. KBG seeds are tiny, and the usual seeding rate is 2-3 pounds per 1000 sq. ft. TTTF is usually 6-10 pounds. If you did equal weights you would have a lot more KBG seeds down than TTTF, which you don't want. The usual recommendation is a maximum of 10 percent of you total mix (by weight) should be KBG. CRF seeds are also seeded at a lower rate, usually 3-5 lbs per thousand, so maybe 20 percent maximum by weight. Also you have to keep in mind the different germination rates. TTTF takes about 7-10 days to germinate, CRF 10-18 days, KBG 14-21 days. So you have to keep it watered for 3 weeks even though after three weeks the TTTF will be close to being ready for its first mowing. One thing you could do is seed the different grasses separately, KBG first, CRF one week later, TTTF one week after that, but that might not be an ideal situation, but as long as you aren't walking on seedings it might work out.

Thanks, a lot of good information here.

Here's where I saw that it TTTF should be seeded "monostand"

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Super Store

I was really hoping to try out several of the seed cultivars that did well in the Griffin, GA and NC trials... There were about 3 different brands represented...

Honestly, I have no idea what is in the Scott's Gold Standard - Other than it is 100% TTTF and it is reputed by our local Turfgrass suppliers to be "The Best" TTTF blend available for our local area.

From what I can tell, those companies adjust the mixes regionally, and even from vendor to vendor....... Trolling through the local home stores, I was surprised to see 4 different mixes within the "Same" brand/product (Pennington Smart Seed TTTF) between Home Depot and Lowes...

Once I get a bag and know what's in it, I am going to try to supplement it with 4 or 5 more high performing TTTF's from those trials.

Hopefully, I will find a TTTF that is tougher than K31...

Thanks

John

"Thanks, a lot of good information here.
Here's where I saw that it TTTF should be seeded "monostand"

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Super Store"

That's all well and good, but sod farms actually have to blend in some KBG to their TTTF sod, or else it won't hold together, and they produce some of the finest turf around. I am certainly not advocating that you add KBG, it will be easier to just grow TTTF by itself, but you can grow KBG in stand where TTTF is the primary grass without worry. Since TTTF is a bunch type grass over time you will probably need to overseed at some point. Perhaps it would be better to overseed with a KBG/TTTF blend at that point as you will require less seed and won't have to worry so much about the different germination rates.

Trust me, I'm not doubting you at all and mixing the KBG and TTTF is exactly what I want to do (in the sunny areas)I just didn't understand why they said that when what you say about sod makes perfect sense.

Here's what I would guess... Mind you, it is a complete guess, though...

1. Cultural... KBG and Fescue have totally different Nitrogen requirements... Fescue doesn't need quite as much... while KBG loves LOTS of nitrogen... so keeping the KBG really happy may call for too much Nitrogen and burn the Fescue... and vice versa with KBG lagging growth wise..

2. Mowing heights -- Not sure whether they are the same or not.. but Fescue around here likes being mowed TALL....

3. Looks -- There are quite a few fescues that run towards lighter green.. while KBG is really spectacular deep emerald green... Let's just say that the end product looks a little crazy when you make a mix like this....

4. Some KBGs are really fine bladed while many Fescues are quite coarse... Combine this with #3 and it looks *Really* weird...

5. Settling in the bag... KBG is a really fine seed, where TTTF is a very coarse, long seed... If you handle it too rough -- the KBG may settle out into the bottom of the bag... so you get a giant slug of KBG in 1 place in your yard...

As I said... it is just a guess on my part, though...

You would hope that whoever mixes up a blend would take this stuff into account -- to try to match up cultural needs to have something consistent looking (Fescue sod around here usually looks Awesome.. so apparently whoever is selling to the sod farmers has this worked out)

If I was going to do something to address most of this... I would 1st buy a well known and well reputed blend. Then, I would carefully mix up the whole bag of blend before spreading it out on the yard...

Thanks

John

"If I was going to do something to address most of this... I would 1st buy a well known and well reputed blend. Then, I would carefully mix up the whole bag of blend before spreading it out on the yard..."

Would it make sense to spread the TTTF blend and then make a second pass with whatever type of KBG I settle on? Seems that since the spreader setting would have to be different for the 2 types of seeds this would make things go a little better.

Plus I'd basically need some darker variety TTTF's and a coarser KBG. Wouldn't really work with the creeping red though since I think that tends to have a finer blade, although as long as the color was similar I don't think the blade difference would really be a big deal for me.

"1. Cultural... KBG and Fescue have totally different Nitrogen requirements... Fescue doesn't need quite as much... while KBG loves LOTS of nitrogen... so keeping the KBG really happy may call for too much Nitrogen and burn the Fescue... and vice versa with KBG lagging growth wise.. "

The requirements aren't that much different, maybe a pound or two more per 1000 square feet per year. The TTTF won't mind the little extra. Fertilizer burn is caused by applying fertilizer to wet grass and not watering it in, or applying too much at one time, but a small bump in the yearly amount isn't going to cause burn.

"2. Mowing heights -- Not sure whether they are the same or not.. but Fescue around here likes being mowed TALL.... "

Generally TTTF recommended mowing height is usually 2-3 inches per the grower, KBG generally 1.5-2.5 per the grower (of course there are always exceptions). TTTF usually grows faster than KBG, so if that is the predominant species your lawn won't be all lumpy and uneven.

"3. Looks -- There are quite a few fescues that run towards lighter green.. while KBG is really spectacular deep emerald green... Let's just say that the end product looks a little crazy when you make a mix like this...."

Most of the new TTTF's are med. to dark green. KBG comes in all shades of green from light to dark blue green. If you select the right cultivars this won't be a problem.

"4. Some KBGs are really fine bladed while many Fescues are quite coarse... Combine this with #3 and it looks *Really* weird..."

Again proper KBG selection coupled with the newer, finer bladed TTTF will yield similar grass texture.

5. Settling in the bag... KBG is a really fine seed, where TTTF is a very coarse, long seed... If you handle it too rough -- the KBG may settle out into the bottom of the bag... so you get a giant slug of KBG in 1 place in your yard...

I would definitely buy them seperately since cultivar selection is important, and I would also spread them seperately to get even coverage of both types of grass.

"As I said... it is just a guess on my part, though...

You would hope that whoever mixes up a blend would take this stuff into account -- to try to match up cultural needs to have something consistent looking (Fescue sod around here usually looks Awesome.. so apparently whoever is selling to the sod farmers has this worked out)

If I was going to do something to address most of this... I would 1st buy a well known and well reputed blend. Then, I would carefully mix up the whole bag of blend before spreading it out on the yard..."

Why settle on what someone puts together when you can pick and choose the exact grasses you want in your lawn? There are many seed sellers that carry the newer cultivars, and most of them are fairly reasonably priced. (Seed Superstore runs to the very pricey side so do your homework. Check out Pawnee Butte and The Hogan Company to get an idea of what's out there, and there are dozens more sellers.) Also you can check with local sod farms to see what they are growing. Pretend that you are pricing them out and ask what cultivars they use, they might tell you, but they might not.

Here in Raleigh, most lawns are Fescue/Bluegrass because is what the sod farmers produce and sell to home builders and big box stores. The seed can be easely found at any retail store. The turf produced is of high quality and appearance.

One of the reasons sod farmers mix both grasses together is because is makes a more competitive turf in terms of disease, drought, and heat tolerance.

Fescue is virtually inmune to Summer Patch disease which can be very destructive to Bluegrass, and Bluegrass is nearly inmune to Brown Patch disease which can devastate a Fescue lawn.