Oh so you're in Hawaii and have land to grow all those wonderful tropical fruits? Thank you for making me feel like my life sucks :-p As for what you're saying. It depends on the kind of tree. The don't-use-seedlings rule is from our TEMPERATE world, so don't assume it applies with all the tropical trees. And even with temperate trees, apparently peaches and apricots are likely to taste good from seedlings. Like, I could definitely see lychees having a good probability of tasting good from seed. And I'm pretty sure papaya doesn't even really change in taste that much from seedling to seedling. Do they even graft papaya? That would seem to be a weird tree to graft. It's more like a really tall vegetable plant than a tree - it doesn't have any real hardwood for a while. Anyway, I would stick with grafting just for the earlier harvest. Are the trees you're buying really that expensive? I bought some relatively large trees last year, and it was $85 INCLUDING shipping. That really is NOT a lot. The dollar has been getting weaker and weaker, remember, plus fruit is kinda expensive. If you don't want to spend the money, then why not graft onto seedlings yourself? They say any fool can graft. And surely in hawaii there must be a good number of people who could give/sell you scions. Anyway, don't just stick with the usual tropicals. Grow DURIAN! Truly an exquisite gourmet treat. I love 'em and I've only had the ones shipped frozen to New York City! Also there's mangosteen. And apparently there's a bajillion other tropical fruits you could grow. Jackfruit is delicious, and the sugar-apple trees are usually tasty - I find the tastiest is atemoya. There's sapodilla, and passionfruit. There's miracle bush, which takes away your ability to taste sour. and apparently there's a fruit that tastes like peanut butter. Oh man.... If I had land in Hawaii to grow fruits, I'd be having a ball!

That's pretty much what I would do speedster1. I don't get in a hurry about planting them because they will develop a good amount of roots in the refrigerator. Sometimes plant them straight in a pot with the seed still damp and sprout them using soil mixed with ash. Both methods work but if you use a grow light place It just over the apples so they don't get spindly trying to reach for the light and keep a fan on them part of the day to simulate wind which makes them stocky and hardens them off. The top leaves should rest almost on the fluorescent bulb and as they grow raise the bulb slightly.In Kansas it's very windy so they won't survive if you don't do use a fan. If you have a Seedling you like on its own root you can cut off some new growth and dip the cutting in clonex rooting gel stick it in a pot of sand and place a jar over it to control humidity and clone your cuttings in that way. If you want seedlings or clones to grow faster place them on a heat mat. You get the idea. Cloning is faster with some plants. What no one tells you is that seedlings roots are always better than layered cuttings of rootstock because they have a tap root vs side roots only. Tap roots head straight down but side roots are more shallow. There are more ways to do this stuff than what I mentioned but that's a few tricks.

From seed is highly variable with quality and time to production. An average is usually 6-8 years to produce, but some trees from seed have never produced. On quality, you have a small chance of better quality fruit, but a much greater chance of similar or inferior fruit quality. To me, its worth it to pony up $30 or $40 after figuring in time spent seeing a tree to maturity. Gary

I'd go with Macrocarpa. It likes alkaline soil, is recommended for your area, and as a White Oak Group oak is resistant to Oak Wilt. Probably the slowest growing and worst fall color, though. Be sure to mention alkaline soil in your posts...that is the big fly in the ointment. Actually, you should test the PH of your soil. Northern Red Oak grows fastest, may have decent Fall color, and takes best to being transplanted, but might have trouble with chlorosis. If I could find it I'd go with seed grown. Grafting just creates more opportunities for the nursery to botch things. They could pick an unsuitable tree for the root stock, often the rootstock is root bound, there is confusion as to whether to bury the graft. I'd only buy grafted if it was a special cultivar or something. Personally, I kind of like potted trees. They give me more planting time flexibility. I can buy them when I see a sale and plant them when I have a weekend free. I buy small trees, though. And many disagree with me. It's partly a matter of how much you trust the nursery...potted trees create more opportunities for the nursery to botch things. They can become pot bound. Lots of Q Rubra near me are only just starting to leaf out, with tiny leaves the size of dimes. A few haven't leafed out at all. We had an unusually cool Spring, though.