["he said he does NOT deal on mowers, only tractors. Is that true?"]

By that do you mean he doesn't haggle over price? That's up to the dealer if does or not so sure, it can be true. He may have little or no competition and have no need to discount.

In my opinion Honda is the best engine out there. Even if its the GC series homeowner engine, its still better then homeowner grade from anyone else.

If you plan on dying soon, I'd get a cheap mower! Otherwise, invest in something that will still be "self-propelling" a few years down the road.
I'm starting my 19th season on my Honda Masters I've changed the plug about 3-4 times and oil 1-2 times per year. Yes it WAS kind of expensive THEN. I don't think so now.

I can't recommend Toro Personal Pace either...
after engine locked up in less than 2 seasons :(

Well, the drive system has nothing to do with engine life. The failed mower could have had any of several very dependable engines, and for all we know it could have been allowed to run on dirty or low oil or without an air filter.
masondad; for just a little more you can get a Lawn-Boy 10685 at Home Depot; 6.5 hp Tecumseh LV195, Sens-a-Speed (Toro Personal Pace), mulch,bag or discharge, hi-dome deck and other features. The price I'm seeing this year is $349. The engine is the same as on the Toro you're looking at but everything else is better, including rear wheel drive instead of front wheel drive.

"The failed mower could have had any of several very dependable engines, and for all we know it could have been allowed to run on dirty or low oil or without an air filter."

If it was a Briggs Quantum it was probably run low on oil every time it was used, since these engines seem to be able to burn enough oil with every use to require adding oil for the next mowing.

I'm with Nevada_Walrus - even the cheap GCV160 Honda engine, "plastic" camshaft and all, is better than anybody else's consumer grade engine.

However, I also agree with Bill Kaupan -- if you really need a self propelled mower, I don't think there is one in your price range that will give reliable service for years.

The GCV160 engine is appearing on mowers with all kinds of names now. I saw one at a Cub dealer last week. Wal-Mart, Costco, Husqvarna -- everybody is selling them, in the $200-$300 dollar range.

'If it was a Briggs Quantum it was probably run low on oil every time it was used, since these engines seem to be able to burn enough oil with every use to require adding oil for the next mowing.'

I doubt that more than a small percentage burn oil.

Masondad; In re-reading your request, I'm wondering why you're selling the riding mower. 10,000 SF can be a lot for a 21" walk-behind.

Saxman, you might be right. I have no statistically sound evidence that more than "a small percentage" burn oil. But I owned two and both burned oil at a ridiculous rate. I rented one and it burned oil at a ridiculous rate. And a non mechanical friend ruined his in one season of mowing a small lawn because it ran low on oil.

That's four for four, or one hundred percent. But it's only four of the many thousands sold, so you are free not to draw conclusions. I'm superstitious, so I think Briggs Quantum engines are crap.

For the sake of statistics, I will go on record saying my Briggs Quantum does not burn an unusual amount of oil.
I bought it new at the beginning of last season, change the oil after its first 5 hours of use, then changed it again at the end of the season with plenty of oil draining out. I never added any after the first change, just checked it once and a while. I am an average consumer user who mows on average once a week - less during dry times, more during wet.
The Quantum is on a Snapper 21 inch walk behind. Its been a great mower, but Snapper dealers are few and far between. The dealer I bought it from says he makes most of his money off of zero turns and nothing really off of walking mowers. Maybe that is what is meant by not making "deals" (as in haggled discounts).

I WOULD GET THE LAWN BOY OR THE TORO!!! I'D TAKE THEAT TECUMSEH LV195EA OVER THE HONDA ANY DAY. I OWN ONE AND I CAN'T KILL IT EVEN WHEN I TRY TO. DON'T GET INTO HUGE SPECULATIONS ABOUT THIS THING, TORO HAS THE SAME TRACK RECORD AS HONDA, JUST NOT THE SAME PRICE TAG. LAWN BOY IS MADE BY TORO SO IF YOU WANT RWD GET IT AT HOME DEPOT 300$$

Around here the Big Boxes have returns out front for significant discounts. You might want to check into them. I saw a Toro PP 20017 for $279 yesterday and it barely had the paint worn off the blades.

I would say the same:Toro is better than honda..............especially if the Honda has a plastic camshaft;that's real garbage!! now I seen it all;a plastic camshaft,what's next a plastic piston LOL!!

"what's next a plastic piston LOL!!"

Possibly. And since my plastic camshaft equipped Honda has already outlasted my last two Briggs Quantum engines, I'd sure buy a Honda with a plastic piston before I'd buy another pot metal Briggs.

There is nothing wrong with Honda engines, plastic cam, etc. I am just not a fan of the Honda deck on the Harmony II series (which is more than $300 anyway) for a self propel version.

Also - any of the MTD or AYP built mowers (Murray, Cub, etc.) are crap and you need to stay away from them if you want self propel.

Go with a Toro or Lawn Boy - by shopping around you will find a RWD self propel in the $300-$350 range that will serve you well. The 20017 Toro will have the lowest price point of the various RWD models offered by Toro and Lawn Boy.

Now if you don't like personal pace/sens-a-speed - than you are going to spend a like more money to get something from Honda/John Deere/Snapper/Ariens that will last (IMHO).

Happy shopping!!

Jim

PS - Toro dealers typically don't deal on price of walk behind mowers, although now that Recyclers are sold at Home Depot and other box stores - they discount their list price a bit more than they used to.

8 year old Honda Harmony II - still runs great, does not use oil, starts @ 1 pull = $ 379 new & was worth every penny. However, also had Murray with old Briggs Quantum from 1987 until I bought Honda and it only started smoking a little at the end - with regular oil changes and air filters, never bought a plug for it. In-Laws killed it on a stump!