Dandelions & moss

16 years ago

Please be gentle... what I know about gardening you could put in a thimble and flush down the nearest drain without turning on the disposal.

I live in the Seattle area where it's wet 9 months of the year. I have no idea what type of lawn I have. It was here when I bought the place. It had been sodded in.

I have a bad dandelion problem in some areas of my lawn. I've pulled them till I'm blue in the face -- I mean I went on a mission in a rage and worked many days in a row. They came back with a vengeance. It wasn't worth it.

I've used weed n feed and the only result was I had to mow a lot more often than my neighbors.

I've used a spot shot type spray (I dunno -- I think it was Weed B Gone) to kill them and that may have helped a little... but... and I think this is very important... I also lost two dogs to cancer and I'm not sure I trust what it says on the sides of those poison packages. First question out of my herbalist/naturopath's mouth was, "What did you put on your lawn?" The man next door on one side of me uses a service and his lawn is gorgeous, but he got cancer. I dunno what the cause was, of course.

I also have two areas that are bad with moss.

Are there safe old fashioned ways to rectify these problems without poisoning anyone? Or should I just hush up and stick with the conventional means till death do us part?

Thanks!

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (13)

ted123
16 years ago
Try to use a product called Trimec by PBI Gordon or Turflon Ester by Monterey Chemical. They will both work on what you are trying to do. Don't apply it when the temperatures are above 75 also don't apply any water for a 48 hour period. Then
go ahead and do a second application in two weeks. After they are under control put seed down and after the seed is established put down some sort of pre-emergent like barricade.

Here is a link that might be useful: do_it_ your_self_website
Billl
16 years ago
Welcome to the lawn board!

Dandelions are a common problem, but are a fairly easy weed to control. If you don't want to use herbicides, your best bet is a little device called a Weed Hound. Basically, you stick it around the weed, step, and pop it out of the ground. The "trick" with dandelions is getting the whole root out. As you probably noticed, they have a long tap root that looks a bit like a carrot. If you leave any of that in the ground, the weed can regrow. The Weed Hound does a great job of getting the whole root out.

As for moss, it is really a symptom and not a problem. It tends to take over places that are shady, compacted and low in nutrients. You can rake the moss up, but it will come right back unless you improve conditions in the problem areas. That might mean trimming back some low branches, aerating, and tossing a little compost around.
Related Discussions
I need to grow a lawn but have no idea how!!!
Q
Comments (4)
Well, since you said you welcome any and all suggestions, I'll tell you what I think based on the limited information you provided and the limited knowledge I have. It sounds (to me) like you're embarrassed by the present state of your yard and want to rapidly turn it into a source of pride rather than an eyesore. I think that can be done in a matter of weeks if you have a little money to invest in the process. First, I'd get a soil analysis completed to find out if your existing soil is suitable for sustaining healthy turfgrass. You probably have a very acidic soil and possible compaction problems if your soil is mostly clay. The results of your soil analysis should include recommendations for amendments such as organic matter and/or an application of lime to neutralize the Ph. Second, I'd hire a landscape contractor to level your yard (I really don't think this is a job you want to tackle yourself) and incorporate any soil amendments recommended by your soil analysis. This process should churn the existing, unwanted flora back into the soil to decompose naturally, obviating the need to apply Roundup and keeping Lake Washington safe for the salmon. Third, find and install a sod with a blend or mixture of turfgrass varieties adapted to Seattle's climate and the hours of sunlight each side of your house typically receives. If you have moss in your yard now, that may be an indicator some light-loving turfgrass varieties won't thrive on that side of the house. I recommend sod because you seem eager to get something down that will look nice as soon as possible. Fourth, fertilize your new turf using organic means to further protect Lake Washington from harmful chemicals. I have no idea whether turfgrass in Seattle needs supplemental water. Intuition tells me no, but I could be wrong. If your lawn is small, as you say, you can probably get away with just using a hose to apply supplemental water as needed. You'll want to keep new sod from drying out as it's establishing, but at this time of year with cool temperatures and Seattle's rain that's unlikely to become an issue.
...See More
Can you help me bring my lawn back?
Q
Comments (6)
Coming from an organic background, I would suggest you forget about your NPK and the ratios. I realize that is hard to do and you don't see anyone saying that (anywhere and rarely on this forum). Work on getting a grain type of protein onto the soil. If you want to fertilize with organics, get a plain brown bag of alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow) and apply at 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Cost will be about $12 for 50 pounds. Apply now and again in a month (since the soil has had nothing in 5 years). If you prefer you can use Milorganite, but I prefer alfalfa. When you do water, water deeply and don't plan to water for at least a week or when the grass shows signs of heat stress (blades folding together or a change in color). KBG would have been brown/tan all winter. Is that what you saw? If not then you likely have fescue.
...See More
organic lawn weeding
Q
Comments (4)
The most effective way to combat "weeds" in turf grass is to provide a good healthy stand of turf and that starts with a soil test so you know what your soils pH and nutrient levels are and then fixing the soil so the grass can grow in thick. Following that is proper mowing and watering. Mow the grass high which will encourage the grass to grow in and crowd out the "weeds" and water as needed to keep the grass growing. Good soil needs organic matter and these simple soil tests can help guide you in getting there, 1) Structure. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. A good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top. Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drainsÂ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up. 3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart. 4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell. 5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy. My understanding is that AgCanada does not do soil testing but they may be able to help you find a lab that does.
...See More
dandelions and soil ph
Q
Comments (15)
A lot of wild plants in yard indicates grass is in soil at or below 6.3 Ph. These weeds are taking in the nutrients faster than grass at that Ph, because it's so far below the optimum nutrient uptake Ph value of Grass, which is 6.8 to 7.0. Grass will do fine between 6.0 and 7.0 BUT if you don't use pre-emergent herbicides to keep the weeds out, these weeds will steal nutrients from the soil, malnourishing the grass. It's like saying, grass will do fine between 6.0 and 6.3 if its the only plant there. With that low of a Ph, you'll see the cool season loving Clover and violets, the warm loving Dandelions, the heat loving Crabgrass, Plantain, Creeping Charlie, Nimblewill, Sedge Do a soil Ph test 5 inches down to determine soil Ph. Consult back of bag of lime to look at its chart to see how much lime to use. The chart will tell you how much to use to obtain a 6.5 Ph based on your current Ph. Once obtain 6.5 Ph, use 12 pounds of lime per 1000 sq foot every year for maintaining Ph. No less often than 36 pounds every 36 months. If you're dead set against doing a Ph test, use 14 pounds of lime per 1000 sq foot every year until you see the type of grass health you're looking for, then switch to 12 lbs per 1000 sq foot. Since moss will die out from malnutrition past a 6.5 Ph, you can keep adding lime to your yard every year at the rate of 14 lbs per 1000 sq foot until the moss dies out., then go to 12 lbs per 1000 sq foot per year. Keep at least a 6.5 Ph so the grass is healthy enough to become and remain established. Consider also, grass height. At 4 inches, lawn grass goes into down and out growth mode, focusing more on roots and side stems called a stolon, than on vertical growth (blade growth). At 4 inches and at least a 6.5 Ph, you have your self maintaining lawn, you won't have to water as often, or mow as often. 4 inch has the best weed suppression, the best insect suppression. Grass won't go dormant in the heat of the summer at 4 inches because it is only prone to dormancy when the heat comes if its focusing on blade growth, and grass is susceptible to dormancy to the extent that its focusing on blade growth (the lower the grass, the more prone it is). The grass blades will be thicker together and will be a darker green all year. At 3.5 inches or lower, one must use a pre emergent herbicide such as Haltz or Killz to keep weeds out, and overseed at least every three years to keep the grass lush and thick, and use nitrogen rich fertilizer such as turf builder to keep it dark green. Your maintenance is to use lime to first obtain then maintain at least a 6.5 Ph, using no less often than every three years, ideally every year. If the grass is 4 inches, use pre-emergent herbicides in trouble spots like fence posts, flower beds, side of buildings. Below 4 inches use pre-emergent in entire lawn, use Turfbuilder, and overseed at least every 3 years for thickness.
...See More
oceanna
Original Author
16 years ago
Ted,

Thanks for taking the time to answer me. Are these natural products or is there some reason you're recommending them? When you say "what you are trying to do" do you mean the moss or the dandelions, or both?

Bill,

Thanks for the warm welcome! :) I generally hang out over on the Home Decorating board. But it's that time of year when I want to get outside and make the yard pretty and I'm suddenly reminded that I have everything to learn.

If THIS (picture of tool on left) is the weed hound of which you speak, that's what I have. I agree that the dandelions come back if you don't get all the roots... but this tool only gets all the roots sometimes. Trust me, I was out there day after day after day using that thing. I must have a kazillion dandelions. lol! I never ran out of them. I just couldn't get on top of them with that tool. I had hoped, but nope.

The moss is worst on one side of the house where the ground is mushy wet 9 months out of the year -- I mean squish-squish-squish when you walk on it. Maybe it needs aerating and I can put compost on it - thanks! I'm not going to use Weed n Feed there again -- my neighbor there laughed at me and asked me "NOW do you see the error of your ways?" Yes, I did. The lawn didn't particularly look better, but it sure needed more mowing than was anywhere near fun.

I suppose putting down compost in the other area wouldn't make the lawn crowd out the dandelions? With my luck it would be the reverse.

I noticed something. One neighbor uses a service to come spray heaven knows what on his pretty lawn. My lawn that is near his has no dandelions. My other neighbor does absolutely nothing and he's overrun with dandelions. My lawn which is closer to him is lousy with them. I even put weed n feed and dandelion poison on the d'lions on HIS property that abuts mine. But nah. Dandelions love him.

Heck, if I knew the little beggars were really clean, I'd be picking them for salads. But I've done stuff out there before so I don't know that.

I just feel a bit sad. The lawn looked so perfect when I moved in here about 2.5 years ago. It was fairly new sod at that time. But there sure must have been a lot of dandelion seeds in that sod.
bpgreen
16 years ago
There are a couple of tricks in getting the whole root out with a weed hound. The first thing is that you have to make sure the ground is at least damp, if not wet.

When you use it, make sure you get it right over the center of the weed, where the root is. Step on it, then give it a twist.

Then (and this is important) pick it up by the knob that sticks straight up, not by the handle that juts out the side. If you pick it up by the handle, it can loosen its grip and you don't get the root.
gardenbug
16 years ago
For the past 2 months I've been pulling weeds. I'm seeing those darn things in my dreams. I bought one of those weed pullers that Bill recommended and they work like a charm. I would not be without one. I literally had thousands of weeds but you really have to be persistent. I was, and now they are pretty much gone. I just bought my new home too and the property had been neglect for several years. I also have plenty of moss growing in backyard right near the tall cedar trees that block the sun. I've just been raking like crazy, I aeriated that part with my weed puller (believe it or not) added some sand, top soil and sprinkled some grass seed on it and said a small prayer. I'm sure the moss will come back eventually but at least I'll have it under some sort of control. Good luck with yours. Oh by the way, depending on your age, (I'm older than dirt) you might want to consider investing in a good heating pad for your aching back.
gardenbug
16 years ago
I forgot to mention that I'm with you. I don't like using any sort of chemicals. I love the birds and wildlife too much. Yes, I wouldn't be surpised if some of these chemicals causes cancer and other diseases. My ancestors were farmers and I doubt they went to Home Depot to buy chemicals for their gardens etc.
User
16 years ago
Welcome to the board!

After pulling with the Weed Hound, one of the best ways of making sure that they don't come back (or invite friends over to play) is to thicken the lawn so that it won't allow a weed to grow.

One, mow as long as you can stand it--the top deck on your mower. Longer grass shades out weeds and also grows deeper root systems that make it healthier.

Two, water rarely (where you are, maybe not much at all). Apply 1" per week (rainfall counts) all at the same time. During a hot, dry period in summer, twice a week may be necessary.

Three, feed it. Grass is a nitrogen hog. If you'd rather not use synthetics (I sympathize and don't use them myself), check the Organic Lawn Care forum for a lot of tips on how to feed your lawn organically.

Four, seed the blanker areas. That'll close the holes. The best time to seed is in fall, but if you have a Pacific climate that doesn't get hot in the summer you can probably manage to get away with a spring seeding. Spring seedings get lots of weeds, though.

Do those things and in a year or two no self-respecting weed will come anywhere near your lawn for fear of being run out of town.
oceanna
Original Author
16 years ago
Bpgreen,

Yes, you're right about all of that, and that was a good description.

Cadence,

Bless your heart. I hope you have better luck with this than I did. I really gave it all I had to give it and I couldn't win.

I was born 400 years ago in the Highlands of Scotland. ;) Good point, I should get a heating pad. I have a massager and also a massage ball I stick behind me in my office chair.

Morpheuspa,

Thanks for the welcome! I'd love it if the lawn would be thick and crowd out weeds. Thanks for all the great tips. Now this is interesting... the back yard where the dandelions are so bad is on a sprinkler systerm (bless the PO). It is set to go off every night for ten minutes and I only have it turned on when we're not getting rain. From what you're saying, could this be a lot of my problem?

I'll try to find the organic lawn care forum, thanks.
What would happen if I spray all the dandelions down with vinegar? Would I have a kazillion brown spots in my lawn? Forever?
User
16 years ago
It is set to go off every night for ten minutes and I only have it turned on when we're not getting rain. From what you're saying, could this be a lot of my problem?

Ding, we have a winner! It certainly isn't all of the issue, but it's causing some of it. Watering like that encourages weeds to sprout because seeds like to be damped down daily.

This year, try playing it more by ear. Water the grass for an hour or so (set out a tuna can to measure the actual amount of watering) only when it starts to wilt. That'll discourage weeds and encourage good strong roots on the grass.

What would happen if I spray all the dandelions down with vinegar? Would I have a kazillion brown spots in my lawn? Forever?

Temporarily, yes. What happens over the long term depends on the lawn. Fescue and ryegrass don't spread very much, so the hole should be reseeded. Kentucky bluegrass can spread about the size of a baseball per season so it takes care of its own small holes (it goes faster if well-fed).

Right now I must have a thousand small brown dead holes in the lawn. The old dead stuff will drop off and disappear in a week or three, and the bluegrass will fill it in by the end of May with no trouble.
decklap
16 years ago
Morpheupsa is right on all counts. Take a sledgehammer to the timer on your sprinkler. Poor cultural practices like over watering and/or misapplication of fertilizer directly correlate to a good deal of the issues people see in their yard.

If you're game you might do a web search for weed flamers too. Some are big noisy and downright scary but Rittenhouse has just come out with an electric version that is perfectly scaled for the homeowner that has a heating element rather than an exposed flame. Err on the side of caution when using one of course but the bottom line is none of these weeds survive flaming.
oceanna
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks so much! I'll do things differently this summer then.

I've got a weed flamer. I need to find it and fire it up. I was just thinking about that last night. :)

Wow this board moves fast.
gardenbug
15 years ago
Well, here it is...September already. Thought I'd update on my weed progress over the summer. You guys wouldn't believe how beautiful and lush my lawn is right now. Pulling all those weeds OMG I thought it would never end but it did. You couldn't find a single weed on my front lawn with a magnifying glass. My lawn is thick and green. Even my neighbors are commenting and asking me how I got it that way. I just worked really, really hard, and pulled them all out without any use of chemicals whatsoever. Now I'm getting ready for fall/winter and next week I'm going to add a bit of lime to the lawn.

Ps. I read here where someone thought about killing weeds on their lawn with vinegar. Not a good idea. It will also kill your grass. Vinegar use is good to kill weeds on cement, rock crevices etc. Just be persistent and pull them out a bit everyday (make sure you get out the roots or they'll just come back. You can even overseed your lawn to thicken it up. Good Luck.
markey
14 years ago
My yard has a bad case of moss. It is so thick that water does not even get down to the grass roots. What can I do now (July) to control this and? I live in Bremerton, WA.

Dandelions & moss

Comments (13)

ted123

Billl

Related Discussions

oceanna
Original Author

bpgreen

gardenbug

gardenbug

User

oceanna
Original Author

User

decklap

oceanna
Original Author

gardenbug

markey

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Dandelions & moss

Comments (13)

Related Discussions

oceannaOriginal Author

oceannaOriginal Author

oceannaOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

oceanna
Original Author

oceanna
Original Author

oceanna
Original Author