It seems a little early to me. What zone are you in? How far off is autumn for your area? I'd wait until the trees were dormant.

Does your arborist know about pruning fruit trees? There's a lot of difference between pruning fruit trees and pruning ornamentals, because the goals of pruning are different. I'd be hesitant to hire an arborist to prune my fruit trees (at least without me being there to supervise) unless assurance of proper knowledge could be provided. Just because an arborist can prune shade trees, doesn't mean they understand the goals and objectives of pruning for best fruit production.

You'll get every answer in the book on this one. Personally, I think it's an OK time to prune. It's late enough so that new growth won't be stimulated. But early enough to allow healing of wounds. I don't like to prune when there is fruit on that I want to harvest, that would be my only concern.

I agree with Brandon, it seems early to me. Make sure this arborist knows what s/he is doing. I am not saying it's massively detrimental to do it before the trees are dormant, but it's also not really helpful. I would let the trees be for as long as the weather allows so they can store energy for the winter and next spring.

What I generally do is once the trees are dormant I prune off any branches that are growing in a poor direction and I know I don't want them left on the tree. Then I spray with dormant oil to kill off any nasties that might be trying to overwinter on the bark. Then I wait until after winter has ended and buds are starting to swell to assess any winter damage that may have occurred. At this point I prune away any winter injured wood and based upon what is left may do some shaping.

I have heard that some areas have disease problems over the winter and in those areas pruning is recommended during the growing season to avoid fresh wounds in the winter, but I don't know where these areas are or whether what I read was a bunch of bunk or not.

Insufficient input data to expect proper output data.
You don't say what zone you are in or how large of branches are being pruned. Even variety can play a part.

Going by my zone, new growth will indeed be stimulated and depending on your zone the new growth won't have time to harden off or produce any flower buds to replace the buds that got turned into branches from the pruning. It probably wouldn't cause much harm but it's certainly not "best".

The guys in PA. So he's pruning a month before frost. What we need to know is why are you pruning? Are the trees old and overgrown or young and need shaping? We can't give you a best without seeing the trees or at least getting a really good description.

If you can't prune yourself, this may be a good plan. But if you can, then do it yourself. Only by doing it yourself will you ever learn what is best for your trees. Don't think you can't do it yourself. Asian pears are impossible to butcher so bad that anything bad will happen. They will grow back from any kind of pruning and set more fruit buds. Apples are less forgiving but not that hard. If you want them shorter, prune shorter. If there is old dead wood prune it out.

If you will prune 2-3 times for the next 2-3 yrs, you will know what to do. And your trees won't be any the worse for wear.

The Fruitnut

"The guys in PA. So he's pruning a month before frost."

Conditions and date of first frost vary WIDELY from one location to the other in PA. Knowing he's in PA doesn't give me nearly enough location info.

-------------------------

Sakura,

There are many threads about pruning in this forum. If I were you, I'd take some time to read them and familiarize myself with a little of the background info you will need. Then, like others have suggested, I'd try it for myself. It's not nearly as hard as it seems once you get the nerve to try it, and, with very little effort, you may end up knowing more about it than the arborist you hired.

I live in city of Philadelphia and my zone is 6.
What means ISA Certified Arborist?
Can people fake about ISA Certification?
How can I check if she or he has real ISA certification?
How many years people must study about plant to get ISA certification?

Yes, I don't want to waste my $$$ by hiring wrong man and damage my trees because I don't think all arborists are knowledgable about total care of all kinds of fruit trees.

I spent so many hours trying to find fruit tree specialist who knows how to care for trees, including pruning, desease control, fertilization, etc, but only thing I found was Penn State extension.
A lady at Penn State Extension gave me address to send sample of my diseased leaves of Asian pear tree but I couldn't find anybody who is capable of helping me about care of my Asian pear trees and apple trees.
Did I tell people about my diseased Asian pear trees?
Yes, my Asian pear trees are diseased and had many oily looking tiny dark brown spots on curled leaves but now spots got larger and dry.
My guess is disease call Entomosporium (other name is Fabraea leaf spot?).
I hope there is hope to save my fruits trees.

P.S.
I took picture of leaves and whole trees but I must wait for my daughter to post here.

PA has 5 zones, Fruitnut.

Zone 6 PA probably won't have winter damage if growth doesn't harden off. I think that's near Jellyman's climate and he says he'll do any pruning at any time.
I was nearby in NJ and don't remember winters being overly harsh.

I'd say the only thing you have to worry about is what kind of job the arborist is going to do. I would hope an arborist wouldn't do a hack job but I've seen and heard about hack jobs done by people with that title.

Know that if this is a major pruning there will be regrowth that needs to be kept after next year.

Basically, an ISA certified arborist is one that meets the qualifications of the International Society of Arboriculture. Most really knowledgeable arborists are ISA certified. The easiest way to find out more is to visit www.treesaregood.com

Sure, I guess it could be faked, but, if they have the ISA Certification logo on their card along with the individual arborist's Certification ID number, they probably are ISA certified. You can verify a particular ISA certified arborist at www.treesaregood.com/findtreeservices/FindTreeCareService.aspx

My concern about the arborist would be more about whether he had specific experience with fruit tree rather than whether he would do a "hack job". If the arborist is ISA certified, he's going to know lots about trees, but being very knowledgeable about trees in general doesn't necessarily mean having knowledge needed to prune a fruit tree. I'd just ask him for references specific to this application.

An ISA membership in absolutely no indication of knowledge about fruit trees- all you can be sure of is that you will be over-charged because his insurance and equipment is about taking down huge trees and much much bigger work. You might run with someone who specializes in shrubs.

I am a professional fruit tree pruner and spend more time pruning them in one season than any arborist I know will prune in their lifetime and I assure you that you can prune that pear quite safely now but I sure wouldn't do structural (larger branches) pruning if there is still fruit on the trees. There is plenty of time for wounds to harden as any damage even on an Asian pear could only occur if temps dropped well below zero within 2 weeks of cutting (for most hardy apples it's more like -25).

The idea of damaging stimulation from any kind of pruning is completely unsubstantiated by my own personal experience. By now terminal buds are set and I doubt you'll see any response, but even if you did it would in no way stop the rest of the tree from hardening off.

When you spend over 6 months of the year pruning fruit trees you get a lot of time to find out what is myth and what is fact on the subject. I work in Z 5-6 around southeastern NY.

+1 on seeing no response this late in the yr. To me it's late to do summer pruning and early to do dormant pruning. But it's still better than not pruning at all if there is something that really needs to be done. We still haven't been given the info needed to advice on pruning. In fact the question seems to have become a disease question rather than a pruning question.

Guess that's par for the course.

The Fruitnut

I think that what you need is a competent gardener, not an arborist. An intelligent gardener can help you with diagnostics and will find out the proper way to prune your trees with much more diligence than any arborist is likely to. I don't know if there is a botanical garden near you with a certification program for horticulturists but that is a good place to look (such schools often have contact bulletin boards on which registration staff will post messages for you if you fax a hiring request). Your cooperative extension (under county listings) runs a master gardener program and may be able to direct you to a qualified professional.

A degree in horticulture or a 2 year certification is helpful in determining proficiency but some of the best gardeners are self taught.

Maybe this is self evident, but I'll add it anyway. Don't assume that just because someone is a "master gardener" that they know anything about anything. Many are very knowledgeable and experienced gardeners, but some are people with too much time on their hands that decided to take the courses to be sociable and still haven't learned much about plants.

Sakura,

I realize you're getting flooded with responses here, and it may be hard to sort it out. However, there is some consensus on hiring an arborist to prune your fruit trees. I would agree with that consensus. Hiring a licensed arborist is far from guaranteeing a quality pruning job for your trees.

I get wood chips from an arborist that owns a tree service. He is licensed and has had all the classes. Once he started talking about pruning my fruit trees, and I quickly realized he didn't really have any knowledge about it. Mind you, I wouldn't hesitate to allow him to prune shade trees, I'm sure he would do a great job safely removing limbs and opening up the trees, but I wouldn't want him to prune my fruit trees.

I remember your post about your pear trees. I can sympathize with your frustration. But I don't think hiring an arborist is the answer.

Pruning your trees now might be fine, if the trees were healthy. However, your trees are already having problems. Removing foliage now will likely exacerbate the problem. These weak trees need all the chance they can get to store energy for winter. Remember, a trees "food" is sunlight, and they need leaves to be able to eat it. In this case, I wouldn't prune the trees until they are fully dormant, if I were to prune them at all.

I also wouldn't hire an arborist to diagnose a problem with a fruit tree either. Despite what they may tell you, they likely have very little experience with fruit trees.

I know that leaves little options left for you, but here are a few.

If you want someone to prune your trees for you, you might call a local commercial orchard. Many of them have Websites you can Google up. Most of them are nice folks and are customer oriented. They might be willing to come over and prune your trees, especially if you told them you are willing to pay. They would probably be helpful in diagnosis, and any horticultural practices that may be helpful.

Another good resource is this forum. Lots of folks here with lots of experience. Try posting some pictures with your questions. Give lots of information including local growing conditions, what the soil is like, what specific practices you are doing to care for the trees, what sprays, if any, you are using, are there other trees close by, etc. Perhaps with more information, people on this forum can get you some answers.

These trees shouldn't be declining after just 15 years. Something is going on.

I have important question about pruning fruit trees.
In my understanding, good fruit tree specialists who are knowledgable about care of fruit trees NEVER remove MAIN LARGE BRANCH by cutting off because by doing this, fruit trees are going to get damaged and die slowly.
Am I wrong about this?
Arborist I am going to hire said he is going to shorten height of my Asian pear trees.
How can he shorten height of my Asian pear tree without cutting off MAIN BRANCH knowing MAIN BRANCH is tallest branch?
I checked his name on ISA website and found his name but I am not sure exactly how much experience he has pruning fruit trees and how knowledgable about fruit tree care besides he said he is going to bring other people to prune my Asian pear trees and apple tree.
I can ask for reference and liability insurance just a case they get hurt.
If I can find fruit tree expert and let him or her watch to make sure my fruit trees are not damaged by whoever come to prune my trees, this is good idea.
Now, I am going to do research on pruning of pear trees and apple trees and learn as much as I can.

P.S.
Can somebody give me step by step instruction(including link) to post picture of my Asian pear tree and apple tree?

Olpea's advice is excellent on all counts but in Philidelphia there may be no nearby commercial orchards. However a nearby farmers market might net an orchardist who's in town selling fruit anyway and would like to make a few extra bucks. If you're lucky there might even be someone selling Asian pears- at least make sure they grow some kind of pear.

Sakura, don't try to figure these things out by yourself. Major branches can be safely removed from most any tree inspite of what you've read. Fruit trees are almost always topped off to maintain a constant height. Of course any wound can be a threat to insect attack or other pests but healthy trees are bound to recover. Trees have evolved in forests where other trees are falling on them on a regular basis- they have to be tough. Part of Olpea's excellent advice is that you should forgo pruning right now anyway if your tree is in a weakened state.

Of course most Master Gardeners are anything but, however, my advice isn't to hire the first Master Gardener graduate you meet, but to talk to several and see if they recommend a professional with a great reputation, whether the person completed that course or not. It is still a far more comprehensive program than ISA acredidation and more relevant to fruit tree care.

I'm amazed that the arborist who's been scheduled would put up with so much questioning over such a tiny job. I would have dropped that opportunity the moment I realized that I hadn't established trust.

http://alturl.com/hpct
link above gives many informations concerning pruning fruit trees and I am learning.

Here are the pictures of my diseased Asian pear leaves.
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Considering the amount of excess rain we recieved on the east coast this season the level of necrotic tissue doesn't seem at all alarming on these trees. To me they look like they are still quite strong and your problem may just be unusual weather and trees that are not out in the full sun. I bet they come in with completely healthy foliage next spring no matter what you do.

On closer inspection the photos seem to show some mite-like bronzing of the leaves. Why not take some leaf samples to your local cooperative extension where a horticulturalist can look at them under a glass (assuming your branch employs one). I've never seen mites on an Asain pear and I am doubtful, but it does look like something might be eating the clorophyl.

If there isn't an easy to see and identifiable pest, for a few bucks they'll send the leaves to a university pathologist (or at least a promising student) who can identify any fungal issues.

I guess it's possible someone here will have experience with your problem and be able to identify it prcisely, but I've never had any foliage related pest problems with the many Asian pears I manage and a photograph is only so useful. The trees don't look to me as though they are under serious threat, however, and if it was fabraea I'd expect it to show up clearly on the fruit.

Sakura,

I went back to your original thread and re-read your posts carefully. I linked it below.

Perhaps you are afraid of losing your pears trees because of the link you posted from U. of GA, which states, "Over time severely infected plants die. Infection is favored by poor air circulation and prolonged periods of leaf wetness." The link goes on to recommend pruning trees to improve air circulation. Perhaps this is why you are strongly motivated to prune your trees very soon.

After looking at your photos, I don't think you need to panic just yet. I also think it may be jumping the gun to diagnose your problem as Entomosporium leaf spot. The leaves in the pictures don't match the symptoms very well.

I do have a few observations:

You don't appear to be thinning your fruit. It's hard to tell from the photos, but the second photo shows way too much fruit for that branch. There should be at least 10" of branch space between each fruit. This alone could account for the small fruit size (mentioned in your first thread) and the fruit drop. Fruit needs to be thinned early in the season to be of most benefit. You may have never thinned fruit before, and not had any problems, but perhaps this year it had a heavier crop load than normal. Problems with leaf issues will exaggerate small fruit size, if the crop isn't thinned properly. Additionally, over-cropping puts more stress on the tree, which is not good if you already have disease/insect issues. Tall trees are hard to thin, so it probably is a good idea to try to bring the height of that tree down some in the dormant season.

There is grass sod under your trees. Trees with sod have to compete with the grass for water and nutrients. I would recommend a mulch under your trees. Mulch a ring clear to the drip line of the tree. Keep the mulch from touching the trunk, and keep an eye out for rodents burrowing in the mulch. Mulch is very beneficial to keep the soil moisture even, and it builds the soil. This will make your trees stronger and better able to withstand stresses of disease. Wood chips make a nice attractive mulch.

I also see a little bronzing on the leaves in the photos. Are you spraying anything? Sometimes repeated applications of homeowner sprays can encourage mites to flare up. Leaf bronzing is sometimes a symptom of that. Many insecticides kill larger insects, but can actually increase the number of mites.

One of the leaves looks like it could be pear blister mite. A dormant application of horticultural oil will help against pear blister mite, and other mites as well. It's cheap enough, you might try it, and it certainly won't do any harm.

And as was mentioned, I'm all for having Penn State look at a leaf sample, as well as your pictures. They seem to have a good fruit program there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sakura's Original Post

Thank you everybody for kind suggestions!
I sent sample of my diseased leaves of Asian pear tree to plant disease clinic
Penn State University
220 Buckhout laboratory
this morning(08/08/2009) and waiting for result.
I will let people to know exactly what kind of disease and what do I need to do to treat my Asian pear tree to save them.

Firstly, thank you so much for taking your time to post kind suggestions!

Some leaves of my Asian pear trees were exactly same as picture below.
http://plantpath.caes.uga.edu/extension/plants/woodyornamentals/PearEntomosporiumLeafSpot.html

After about month, as you can see by looking at picture I posted, tiny spots are expanded now.
All my fruit trees are planted in sunny part of my garden where they get at least 10 hours of sunshine but I need to prune to increase air circulation by removing vertical branches, dead branches, and crosing branches, etc.
This morning, I raked fallen pears and leaves to clean around my Asian pear trees.
Needless to say I could not put these in my compost knowing trees are diseased.
I put in trash can and let sanitation workers to get rid of.
Lately, I am learning many things about care of fruit trees to increase my knowlege before arborist to prune my Asian pear trees.

I just gave a peach tree a severe pruning...like some very major limb reduction. I keep brushing up against while i was moving some things inside and that drove me over the edge. A few saw cuts later and now its 1/4 its size. I'll let you know how it comes out next year.

I plan on spraying all the wounds with copper.

Hi everybody, I received letter from PennState Plant Disease Clinic and here is message I got.

Rake and destroy leaves in the autumn to remove overwintering inoculum.>>

How many of you had anthracnose leaf spot on Asian pear trees?
Is there cure for this disease?

Hi, Sakura! I think you would come to love your trees even more if you would service them yourself.
Pruning isn't difficult, and there is no precisely right method. Most important, you can become one with your trees and you needn't worry about causing permanent harm. Here are some basics: 1) You be the boss! Shape and size the tree the way you want. Don't be afraid to make cuts. 2) Start by removing any suckers, then 3) remove any dead or seriously diseased limbs, then 4) remove any branches that are too low, then 5) remove any hangers, then 6) remove watersprouts, then 7) remove any branches growing toward the center of the tree, then 8) remove any crossing branches--leaving the stronger or more important, then 9) remove any mummified fruit, then 10) top the tree if it's getting too tall to suit you. Shape it like a Christmas tree with no upper limbs shading lower limbs. Use limb spreaders to force 70-90 degree angles with the central leader. Stand back and throw your hat through the tree. If it won't sail through, cut some more to allow good air circulation and spray penetration to minimize the disease that so concerns you. Thin your fruit big time. Live life to its fullest. Perhaps Harvestman will weigh in with his thoughts!!! Good luck, Misterbaby.

misterbaby, thank you for quick reply!
I was reading the article about pruning of pear trees this morning and wondering if this is true or not.
The article tells me that if we prune old pear tree to shorten height, we are risking to have fire blight disease.
I had fire blight disease on my Asian pear trees over 10 years ago and had hard time to remove affected branches.
The reason why I hate to lose my Asian pear trees is because I have heavy concreate like clay soil in our back yard and that was real hell to plant frut trees.
I dug up little and poured water to soak over night and next morning dug up little more.
I repeated this for several days to make large deep holes to plant these two Asian pears.
If pruning old trees to shorten height cause fire blight disease, I cannot shorten height of my Asian pear trees.

Hi, Sakura. Radical pruning may increase vulnerability just as does heavy fertilization. I recommend the use of agromycin to combat fireblight. Misterbaby.

Sakura2006 ....

Looks like some good suggestions have been posted so far, but you are still faced with a choice: if you don't know any of us, how do you know who is right, or who really has the experience or wisdom they claim.

ISA certification would actually be a safer bet than an anonymous post on a forum. Unless you can verify the information posted, which is possible. Usually, if a piece of advice sounds pretty smart, it's available to find out elsewhere if it's fact or myth.

Personally, I like to do fruit tree pruning for customers between mid-October and March. Preferrably prior to January and February. If people choose to dormant spray, although many don't have a need, a pruned tree requires less product, and coverage is better without as many interfering sprouts and twigs.

In some ways, I find good fruit tree pruning to be even more challenging than good general tree pruning, because it requires fighting the natural tendency of crown expansion, as well as replenishing and rotation of limbs.

Hope is goes well. Maybe share some pics before and after.

M. D. Vaden of Oregon

mdvaden, I was discussing ISA certification with another arborist yesterday. We were laughing about the limited scope of the testing, comparing it to the Master Gardeners program. Plenty of hacks are ISA certified arborists. It is useful only in establishing the basic arboricultural literacy of a tree tradesman in my opinion, and is as much about PR as anything else. There is not one question in a certification test that applies specifically to fruit trees.

Many of the posts here are not annonomous (check My Page for some background on some of the participants) and most are made by people with far more experience with fruit trees than commercial arborists.

I prune more fruit trees in one season than any certified arborist I've ever met will likely prune in their entire lifetime. I get to clean up the messes that ISA certified arborists make on a regular basis.

Commercial arborists will prune fruit trees without usually seeing the results of their work year after year, so they have difficulty developing technique, even if they are otherwise very competent. The real money is in take-downs.

I'll also defend the advice of experienced folks on this forum above the advice of many professional arborists.

This forum has folks who've spent years tending their small orchards and reading fruit literature. Occasionally there are commercial growers that also check in (Geraldo). And people with nursery businesses (Hman).

The arborist that brings me wood chips is truly a professional operator. He's mentioned his certifications with pride, has well maintained, nicely painted trucks, and uniforms. As I've mentioned, if I needed to take down or prune a big shade tree, he'd be my guy. But he appears to be fairly unknowledgeable about fruit trees. As an example, he knows I use the wood chips for mulch around my trees. This summer he went to extra trouble to get me a load of black walnut. While I very much appreciate the free deliveries, it would appear he either doesn't know about the herbicidal properties of Juglans, or he doesn't think it's a problem.

In contrast, many folks on this forum would spot the issue, and potential risks, a mile away.

Olpea, I suspect you know that if the black walnut mulch sits in a pile for a season it will be fine. I've read that it doesn't take to long for it to become inactive.

By the way, I also manage about 100 orchards which run from a few trees to a few acres. I do most of the pruning in all of them. My nursery is only a quarter of my business and is quite small- just 4 or 500 fruit trees at any given time. I'm more of a fruit tree arborist than a nursery man.

"By the way, I also manage about 100 orchards which run from a few trees to a few acres. I do most of the pruning in all of them. My nursery is only a quarter of my business and is quite small- just 4 or 500 fruit trees at any given time. I'm more of a fruit tree arborist than a nursery man."

Hman,

I knew the general focus of your business, included a lot more than nursery services, but couldn't think of a quick terse way to sum it up in one sentence. Perhaps a, "nursery, pruner, tree establishment, pest control, fruit tree management person?"

The walnut chips have been sitting for a couple months. I thought when I spread them, I'd be careful not to mulch any trees with straight walnut mulch, but mix it with other mulch. Thanks, actually I didn't know how long it took juglan toxin to degrade.

I just wanted that arborist to know who we are that he's dissing. I have learned a hell of a lot more about fruit trees in this forum that I'd ever learn from attending , say, an ISA arborists convention. Most of us know more about trees in general than the certified arborists I meet-with some notable exceptions, of course, but certified means close to nothing.

Was given a jonathon apple tree in small container that has spindly branches. can and should i try to prune it back before i plant it. it has a feew leaves on it.