Too much heat where you are. Some apples need cool nights when they ripen and some need pretty cool days as well. I think they used to grow decent Macs in the Santa Cruz area.

Axel, since you are growing about everything you have probably tried several of the broader "mac family" but if not I think thats the best route. I call the "mac family" all of the flattened, rubbery-skinned (for lack of a better term), sour, distinctively aromatic apples. To me that includes Worcester Pearmain, Akane (WP is a parent), Belle Fleur Rouge, and Doctor Mathews. There are several other old French apples in that general school as well, such as Rambour d'Automne. None of these apples have McIntosh as an ancestor and they all ripen well for me. Well, all but the last one - it ripened for the first time this year and got extreme watercore.

Scott

I don't know if it's the hot nights at ripening. It was hot this year at McIntosh ripening time. I almost didn't eat any fresh but set one aside at my last pressing, it was amazing.

Now I am really confused, I am in the Santa Cruz area and nobody's macs are any good even though it's quite cool here. Because we had the coolest Summer in years, it's even more bizarre, the nights were usually 50-55F, days 65-75F. We had one single day at 108F, (burned 20% of the sun exposed crop on some varieties, but didn't burn a single Mac).

The macs here not only do not develop any of the complexity one would expect from a mac, but also they have really low brix.

My theory is that you need a warm Summer for them to be any good.

Scott, I am growing many of these alternatives you mentioned, no fruit yet except on Calville Rough D'automne, they are delicious, but I wouldn't put them in the same category as Macs.

I am quite fond of all the French apples, they really taste good grown here. We seem to have a good climate for them. I had really delicious Reine de reinettes this year, plus several others that were yummy.

Axel-

They grow a massive amt of McIntosh apples across the river in SE MN. My wife use to babysit on McIntosh Lane :) Its by far my favorite apple and i've ate about 5 of them this morning already. Lets just compare our two climates:

monthly max high temp/max low temp/avg temp

June
La Crosse 88F 50F 70F
Santa Cruz 91F 45F 62F

July
La Crosse 92F 59F 76F
Santa Cruz 82F 47F 61F

Aug
La Crosse 94F 51F 76F
Santa Cruz 104F 47F 62F

Sept so far
La Crosse 83F 46F 63F
Santa Cruz 93F 47F 62F

What i notice is our summers are WAY WARMER then yours, yet those temps drop drastically come ripening time. Maybe that is it? I know when i've read local articles on apples, the orchard guys always talk about cool Sept/Oct wx is good for the crop. By that time the Pacific has started to warm and your temps probably increase.

Axel, Calville Rouge d'Automne and Rambour d'Automne are unrelated appples FYI.

Those were averages from this year...not a normal year...but still gives you an idea of what may be causing your McIntosh to taste bad. Can you buy Wisconsin or MN grown apples out there in California or don't they let our stuff into your state :) :)!

Frank, the Summer temps you put there are extreme highs/lows, we need to compare average highs and lows. As you say, I think that our lack of Summer heat is the culprit, the BRIX on our Macs is too low. But our late August/early September temps look very similar.

We are usually quite cool right up to McIntosh harvest time. By the time the Macs are off the trees, temps begin to rise. People around here often joke how Santa Cruz county's real Summer begins after labor day. By that time, all the macs are off the trees.

Here are the average statistics without stating the extreme temps (it occasionally gets above 80F in Santa Cruz, rarely above 90F, maybe once or twice above 100F.

Santa Cruz: Av high/Av low
June: 74F/49F
July: 75F/51F
Aug: 75F/51F
Sept 76F/50F

See Western Climate Data Center.

La Crosse, Wisconsin

June: 81F/58F
July: 85F/63F
Aug 83F/61F
Sept 74F/52F
See Midwest Regional Climate Data

From what I can tell, it's definitely a lack of Summer heat that is the culprit, we just don't get the BRIX to go up. It's interesting how other apples like Gravenstein sweeten up just fine in our cool weather, but not McIntosh.

Just looked up if it grows down south of here and according to some publication out of Missouri, McIntosh softens under their summer heat...

Still is weird it doesn't do better for you... Maybe next year!

So some heat, but not too much... Sounds like a very picky apple.

OK, I didn't even notice that was your post Axel. Here's what I think- we get warm summers here but in the best Mac years they don't ripen until the first cool days and nights of fall (late summer technically).

This year they started dropping from trees about mid-Aug- 2 weeks early- and warm weather has for the most part continued till today with a few short breaks.

The later ripening Macs have good texture and decent color with enough brix to be a very good apple but generally probably not top rate for the variety. The earlier ones were OK so I think they need some good summer heat to get adequate sugar. Only partially shaded trees still have significant apples hanging.

I would never have thought that McIntosh likes hot Summers, but indeed it does. So the conclusion is it needs a hot Summer finished off by a cool Fall. Seems to make sense.

Well, I am going to graft over my Mac. I've tasted locally grown McShays, they were quite good, so I know there are better alternatives.

Hi Axel;

Timing is everything; after a cool last couple of weeks its supposed to be between 106-110 Monday. I picked a late Gravenstein today and it was wonderful; crisp, juicy, sweet-tart. Enterprise and Terry Winter are ripening right now, both excellent but both a month early. Cool fall weather won't arrive for good until November, and so all the apples that blossomed early this year may get incinerated this weekend.

Sometimes our lack of chill works in my favor, delaying bloom so that they get all the heat they want through the summer but ripen in the cooler November/December weather; this year we had cold/wet winter which messed the clocks up and made some bloom in April. We'll see what's still on the tree this winter.

Applenut, we are getting the same heat wave, it's not cooling off tonite as we're above the inversion layer, it was 95F today and it's supposed to be in the low 100F range this weekend.

Would you recommend picking what's pretty much ripe now? For me, Jonathan and empire are prime and dark, they look like they could get pretty fried this weekend. I am on the fence because many of the apples could use a jump in brix level, but what's the point of more sugar if they turn to mush?

What brix are we talking? Mine are always about 12.5� (1.050-1.055SG), what makes the difference between average and great is the texture and flavor.

I guess my August nights are generally "cooler" although I wouldn't call them cool.

Axel, just out of curiousity - how does Macoun do in your area? Thanks, Rick Godsil