Hi Chad-
Youve been studying hard! Just a couple comments from a fellow apple grower / orchard forum student.

3.) What are you targeting with the Bordeaux mix on the apples?

4.) I would add some Kocide 3000 to your 1/2" dormant oil spray. This should be done at a 1-2 tbsp rate to ward off both apple scab and fireblight. In this way, the oil pulls double duty: First, its fights scaling insects. But, second, it also acts as a sticker for the Kocide. For me in RI, the half Inch green stage is around April 19th or so.

5.) IÂm curious to where you got "pink" start timing info for the Immunox. IÂm just going by the Harvestman "pedal fall" start timing. Last year I did 3 sprays around harvestmanÂs periods 3 only because I didnÂt have my orchard timing down yet. IÂm worried by starting at pink, youÂll be 2 weeks too early? Also, I believe Harvestman has said that he does this Âminimum spraying only for people who request it, and for others, he may be doing a couple additional sprays? Anyway, my point here is that the timing of these 2 sprays are very critical. Do you have a reason to be going with ÂpinkÂ?

7.) IÂm sure youÂve read the Imidan Source thread. Make sure youÂre up on all your precautionary measures. IÂve been too chicken to use mine. Luckily, by never letting the buggers get established, I havenÂt needed it (yet).

Since you have problems with deer, IÂd add a deer spray of some sorts to each of the sprays. I use liquid fence when weÂre no where near harvest. I use Deer Out as the time grows closer.

Look at it this way Your plan for last year was no where near as advanced as what you have above And your trees still did OK. With the plan you have above, theyÂre going to be much, much better off. So, as for preparing for the unexpected For me, the only other thing that IÂve considered is getting some AgriStrep as a fireblight preventer. I still got a couple small strikes even with the Kocide. But, I havnÂt procured that yet. I also got some BT for a caterpillar issue I had here, although that doesnÂt appear to be rated for fruit??? (I just sprayed it my trees that were too young for fruit).

Hope this helpsÂ
-Glenn

I dont think you want to fall fertilize, usually you dont want a flush of growth before winter. Someone advise when the best time to fertilize and why please?

75% petal fall. I dont agree with spraying pesticides while bees are still interested. Usually a storm knocks the flowers off here before it even gets to 75% petal fall.

If you dont want to use imidan, spectracide trizide once and done labled for fruit, has worked well for us in pc alley. Its cheap also, and is almost odorless unlike imidan.

I stopped spraying on 1 tree june 20th , the others july 12th. Just to see what I can get away with. Seems like im in the clear. I think my schedule here next year looks like this: Green tip to pink oil and immunox ,100 % petal fall (imidan immunox + captan) and 3 cover sprays(also imidan immunox + captan).

I am channeling harvestman..

"OK, I don't know where you live and your spray issues are going to be greatly affected by your location but here's my spray schedule for the scores of orchards I manage around SE NY.

No dormant oil- do an oil spray somewhere between the point where emerging shoots are 1/2" and the flower clusters begin to show pink. Mix Nova (myclobutinol =immunox) at highest legal rate with 1 to 2% oil. If it's closer to pink use 1%.( Remember oil and captan are not compatible.)

Don't spray again until petal fall when petals have mostly gone from latest flowering varieties and bees have lost interest. Than spray Imidan + Nova + Captan mixed together at highest legal rates. Repeat in 10 to 14 days.

Where I manage orchards, the space between earliest flowering Japanese plums and latest flowering apples is only 2 weeks or so which usually allows me to wait until the latest flowering trees are ready to begin spraying anything. Plum curculio seems to time its appearence conveniently to the rythm of the last flowering varieties. This may not be true where you are.

Sometimes it leaves me with plums too far along to spray oil by the time I do the apples and Euro plums sometimes get mites because of this- so you may need to spray oil on different trees at different times.

If you can't find or bear using Imidan- an organiphosphate that is restricted in a few states, you best use Sevin instead but add an extra spray and apply at about 7 day intervals. (OR spectracide trizide once and done labled for fruit 10-14 days)

All this is based on plum curculio being your primary insect problem which is the case most areas east of the Mis. River. These sprays will also absolutely control scab, CAR and Mildew as well as most of the crop fatal insects. Apple fly maggot is an exception, but I haven't had much of a problem with this pest in the orchards I manage. This pest can be controlled with a lot of fake apples smeared with tangle trap.

If you don't want to use synthetic chemicals, you will probably have quite a battle on your hands. You'll probably have to do at least 4 applications of Surround about a week apart.

Stone fruit will require the addition of another fungicide application or 2 (Indar) starting 2 or 3 weeks after final insecticide spray.

Because I manage so many orchards so far apart I have to resort to a spray schedule that is based on expectations rather than actual monitoring. You may be able to reduce insecticide sprays with monitoring but PC are quick and sly.

Other problems may occur later in the season and you will in time learn to monitor and react to the pitfalls.

Good luck, Alan Haigh- The Home Orchard Co.

First, Thanks Glenn & Alan for the time & effort for your replies. I will use them to revise my plan and perhaps repost it in a few days.

Glenn, the Bordeaux mix from my understanding is hydrated lime and copper sulfate used to prevent the blight on apples and the leaf curl on peaches and was recommended by the grower. Perhaps Kocide 3000 is a better effort. I sprayed deer repellent monthly since I removed the fencing in spring and have not had 1 issue. Through last fall and winter even though I thought my trees were well caged, the deer still managed to find a way to do a little damage. For the deer this year I plan to ante up for an experiment shown at the link below. My little orchard is still small enough that the idea is feasible. If proved not effective I will have to ramp up the repellent spraying or invest in a real fence.

Glenn and Alan, you both cite Harvestman's timing. I will have to look at that closer and adjust as well. While I'm at it, I have to familiarize myself with identifying visually the "growth" terms as well.

I have already aquired Imidan W-70 & Immunox. I will locate Kocide 3000 next.

Alan, thanks for locating H-man's schedule and posting it for me.

Even though this particular spring was probably uncommonly wet for our region, it is not feasible for me to reduce the potential CAR effect due to the fact that the Eastern Cedar populates alot of my property and surrounding properties, so I need to make the best of that Immunox timing.

Thanks again, Chad

ohh im sorry Alan IS harvestman. Everything in "" is h-man. most of the stuff in ( )is stuff I added. I should have been more clear.

Joe-il, one application of spectracide is all you need where PC has only one generation? That wasn't my note and I have never used Spectracide but if this is true I probably will or actually I'll use one of the formulas for commercial growers. Is this all you use, and how long have you been succeeding with it?

If I get the timeing right I can sometimes get away with a single application of Imidan but that timing may have to be right after petal fall or on the timing of the second Imidan spray. If warm weather arrives late so do the PC.

I have sites where I can no longer use Imidan and have been contemplating trying one of the permethrin formulas although Cornell is steering commercial growers from its use due to potential extreme mite flare-ups. But the users on this site haven't mentioned any such problems and I was thinking of maybe using it with summer oil to reduce the risk. Than I'll have to stop using Captan.

Black- you may not need to be overly concerened about blight. I seldom see it here in z6 NY and even when I do the only treatment I use is cutting it out. It's yet to kill any of the many hundreds of trees I manage on scores of sites (I always mention this to try to give extra confidence in my advice- I'm hoping it's not about ego.). I only have had it affect the shape of 2 Bosc pears at 2 seperate sites. Maybe if I used fully dwarfing rootstocks FB would be more of an issue, however.

I always think it's weird how people will set up deer fencing in winter only- I find the pressure much worse when the trees are in leaf.

H-man, no everything in ( ) is stuff I added to your post that I dug up, I did note that in my second post so it doesnt look like im putting words in your mouth.

You need about 3 sprays of spectracide to get thru pc season here. 1 at petal fall and 2 cover. June 20th was my last spray on 1 tree and it seems fine. scab is another issue. This is my first year growing, and all I used (trizide) on 1 full sized tree, another 3 trees I used a trizide twice + a 4th spray of imidan.

If your interested an orchard near me has eliminated OP's from their protocol and have a spray schedule you can view below.

Thanks Joe for the post.

The stuff posted by Royal Oak Farm is pretty soft. I sorta know Dennis Norton, of Royal Oak Farms, from the internet. He is very environmentally conscious, and frequently changes his spray program from year to year, to try to balance the most environmentally friendly approach with an effective control. He doesn't have the pest pressures common with a lot of folks in southern latitudes (He is north of Chicago).

I've been using a lot of the soft stuff on pomes this season (Delegate, Intrepid, Assail) and have had problems with catfacing (stinkbugs) on fruit). I think next season, I'm going to hit the pyrethroids heavier to eliminate stink bug damage. If weather permits, I'll add oil to try to reduce mite damage.

As Myk previously mentioned, Triacizide is the same as Proaxis. Warrior (which is very similar) is supposed to have an ultraviolet inhibitor, thus lasting longer, however, it supposedly stinks something fierce. For a pyrethroid, I use Mustang Max, which has a fairly long residual, and doesn't smell too bad.

Yup, I know Dennis as well. I think Avaunt might be better suited for PC control (soft on beneficials and more affective then Dennis's choice) but it's only labled for commercial production.

Olpea, you spray quite a few trees- have you experienced mite flare-ups with Mustang Max?

H-man, the deer fence thing IS weird in my case. I am not a big deer expert but on my property it seems that once the antlers fall off in the spring I don't see many until fall. Once fall comes and rut approaches, the herds seem to change their travel patterns and I have 2 small herds traveling through the property early morning and early evening. Later in the winter, they will try to chew a young fruit tree or one of my Oak leaf hydrangeas to the ground. I uncaged my young trees when they woke up in spring and haven't had any evidence of damage since. However, once it cools off in October, I will need to "train" those herds. Since some of the trees are in their 2nd year, they are too big to cage.

Ah, that's interesting. All pest problems can have huge variations depending on location. The reason I mention the strangeness in the timing is because landscapers here often protect tender plants from deer in the winter only. For evergreens this makes sense but when they wrap up fruit trees that I have to prune I get annoyed.

The bucks do a lot of damage in late summer and then again in late fall. A hunter explained to me the reason for the timing but I have forgotten. Of course protecting trees from rubbing is much easier then from browsing.

Hman wrote:

"have you experienced mite flare-ups with Mustang Max?"

I really haven't used pryethroids on pomes enough to say. All the warnings about mite flares have made me skiddish to use it on pomes. I'm starting to question that though. There's a commercial apple guy about 50 miles from me and he uses Warrior and Guthion as the foundation for his spray program. Myk on this forum apparently has not had any problems with repeated pyrethroid usage.

I did have a problem once with pyrethroids aggravating pear blister mite, but I seem to have that under control now.