Just in case you think Honey Fire is something sensational all on it's own and the reason for the quality mentioned, think again. The patent says the brix averages 13.3. So mine is 10 to 20 points higher.

Can't buy that in the store.

I've got a few questions about this as I'm considering adding a high tunnel in my orchard. First of all, are those pots larger enough forever? Are you growing on mostly standard peach rootstock and relying on the pots themselves and your pruning to keep the trees manageable or could I consider some really dwarfing rootstock like Gisela 5 for cherries or Krymsk for the other stone fruits?

Secondly and perhaps you wouldn't know this because of your locale but, how much extra protection would I get from the high tunnel. Could I grow apriums and things that typically would not handle zone 5? Could I grow Pink Lady, Fuji and Granny Smith apples that typically require a longer season than I have? Could the high tunnel stay up and could the trees stay in it during the winter or would they need to be brought in if they weren't particularly cold hardy varieties?

Thanks, I've really been thinking about this and I don't want to waste my time and money to find out that I have some weird expectations that never occur.

ganggreen:

I'm not going to anything bigger than 15 gallon ever again. They are just too heavy. You probably will need to repot every few years depending on what mix you use. And you need to read up about potting mixes. There are lots of ways to go wrong there. My mix is similar to Al's 5-1-1 on the container forum.

Dwarf rootstocks are good and the precocious cherry rootstocks are great in pots. But they are not essential. The pot will limit tree size all by itself. Pruning for size control is hardly needed on any rootstock. You'd probably be amazed how little pruning is needed on any root. I prune mostly to shape the tree. I have trees on probably a dozen roots and they all work. Gisela 5 and Krymsk 1 are as good as any. Lots on Citation.

Don't figure on a lot of freeze protection from a high tunnel. And I won't leave it covered all winter. Heavy snow will crush a poly covered tunnel. Plus that would encourage blooming too early. Cover it only when the first thing needs frost protection. Then figure on a heater to be sure.

Apples would be better outside. Although potted apples could be moved around to aid season length.

I'd start out with potted trees and figure that out before committing to a high tunnel. Then when you put it up you will have trees ready to fruit.

If I knew what climate you are in I might be more help.

What do you do about pollination?

agility:

Nectarine are normally wind pollinated and self fertile. But inside the greenhouse there isn't enough wind. So a light spray of water once a day seems to help. Just enough water to wet the blossoms.

I use bumblebees to pollinate where needed. They can be purchased in a small cardboard hive for about $150.

Here's a picture of Honey Blaze on the left and Honey Fire on the right. This is my first crop of Honey Fire and about the 8th of Honey Blaze. Not sure which I like best yet but both are special above about 24 brix.

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Fruitnut, thanks for your kind response, it's very helpful. I'm in zone 5 in northcentral Pennsylvania. We have spring frosts kill most or all of the fruit buds about3 or 4 years in 10 but we grow nice fruit in the other 6 or 7 years. I get plenty of sun and plenty of rain but we also have a shorter growing season and the apple varieties that I mentioned above typically don't ripen completely.

I'm also glad to hear that you've had good luck with Krymsk 1 and Gisela 5. I've got some of each in the ground in my orchard but I have a good source for trees on those stocks and may try some potted varieties next year.

It's the brix junkie back with more musings about gourmet quality fruit. It doesn't bother me to be called a brix junkie because almost everyone I give or sell fruit to seems to be about the same. But it's not just all about brix. Brix stands out because it's the only thing I know how to quantify. And I'm not very good at describing various tones of flavor. So it plays second fiddle.

As I've said before, my feeling is that the same things that concentrate sugar, concentrate flavors. Honey Blaze and Honey Royale are similar tasting fruits. And their flavor changes dramatically under stress. It takes on an almost fermented taste that can be superb but when over ripe goes off track.

My limited experience with Honey Fire says the flavor tones are about the same from 18 to 33 brix. I really like it and it's quite different from Honey Blaze. But it takes several years to be sure about fruit flavor so I may change my mind on Honey Fire.

These varieties aren't widely available. Blaze and Royale are available from Adam's County Nursery. And if you asked they might decide to stock Honey Fire which is early maturity and medium chilling.

Nice looking fruit, FN. What is your fertilization program for potted trees? Misterbaby.

misterbaby:

I usually add some complete controlled release whenever the trees show signs of nitrogen deficiency, light green leaves. I'm only wanting medium vigor so not much fertilizer is needed. It looks like after about 4-5 years I'm going to need to repot because the trees get excessively rootbound and vigor drops. But if not pruned properly they will need a major pruning by then to keep vigor up.

I've thought about going entirely to pots for higher eating quality. But haven't tested everything enough to know what to expect. If properly grown, in-ground pluot and nectarine trees will give fruit of 20 to 24 brix or higher. The fruit averages larger size and that's sweet enough that almost any customer or friend is highly pleased. That's about what I shoot for on most of the fruit I sell.

Fruitnut, this is very interesting. I haven't tried stone fruits yet, but have about six apples (B.9 and G.11) growing in the blue rope tubs using Al's mix with good results. I like the control and predictability of not relying on the horrid subsoil most of my trees are planted in. Will start some stones next spring. Thanks, Misterbaby.

I don't mind you being a brix junkie since it's more than a word for you, it's a hard number.
Acid would be another you could quantify, although not as fun as a refractometer.

Stella sweet cherries are just turning dark red. I had the soil of my pot (half whiskey barrel) covered last night (.68 inches of rain fell), so no rain could get to the roots...I still had a half dozen cracked cherries this morning. Must absorb into the skin of the fruit or leaves?

Almost 8 inches of rain have fallen in my backyard this month.

I've got a Raritan Rose white peach in a 15 gallon pot holding on to one fruit.

Thanks for the info. I have a site for a future greenhouse and wanted to know my options.
By the way, your plants are incredible, great job.

frank:

Cherries absorb water thru the skin of the fruit. That is the primary reason for cracked fruit. I haven't really tried to limit water in pots for sweet cherries. But it may be limited whether I'm trying or not. All my cherries were as sweet as they are likely to get potted or in-ground this year. Quite a few had brix above 35% as the fruit dehydrated late in the harvest season.

My outdoor cherries have been too water stressed resulting in very high brix, small fruit, and off flavor. The fruit outdoors is half the size of greenhouse fruit. So this stress thing can easily go too far.

agility mom:

Are you sure about a greenhouse in Z9 AZ? That sounds like very hot summers. We have been having very hot weather here for my location but I'm at 4500 ft so 100F is near peak not 120F like low elev in AZ. You could probably do greenhouse fruit there with 40-50% shade cloth but I'd think you are on the razors edge. Why not do it outdoors? Too much monsoon rain? They are growing lots of fruit outdoors in N Las Vegas NV. Colder winters than you but about the same in summer. Dave Wilson used to have videos of the N Vegas operation.

How big will your inside/potted trees get?

gary (in central California)

gary:

The biggest has a top about 5ft wide and tall. That's in a 15 gal pot with one watering each morning during hot weather. To get bigger I'd need a bigger pot or water more often. I want the top size to be limited by the 'bonsai' effect.

What type of training system(s) are you using?

gary (in central California)

gary:

There isn't much to training a tree that small. It's mostly about shaping the tree into whatever you want. Some are a vase, others are fan shaped, and some are central leader. They all work.

Given that the trees are small and not overly vigorous, there is good light penetration into the canopy. This is essential to achieving high quality fruit.

The other aspect is renewal pruning. I probably don't prune enough early on to maintain fruiting wood down low. I'm working on that.

Here's a picture of one area of the greenhouse showing several potted trees of various shapes. Notice the area is open and I have reflective fabric on the floor. This gives good light exposure.

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"The other aspect is renewal pruning. I probably don't prune enough early on to maintain fruiting wood down low. I'm working on that."

That would be my concern with small trees.

I do have a much abused, wood-borer damaged PixZee peach tree that's only about 42" tall. I've thinned it twice and it still has 3 dozen peaches on it.

gary (in central California)