Kansas:

Fully agree with Scott that larger fruit tree stock is to be avoided. In my view, it's worth less, not more. I have had the best luck here with one or two year trees, and that applies to both pome and stone fruits. A nursery flogging larger trees at higher prices is to be avoided.

Also agree that Stark Bros., after several reorganizations and/or buyouts, seems to be doing pretty well. They have a broad selection, although you don't specify what types of trees you intend to plant. There are at least a couple dozen nurseries across the country that ship nationwide, and it wouldn't take much Google searching to find them. Raintree and Adams County are a couple of them.

Before you make a mailorder purchase, be sure you understand the influence of rootstocks on the growth patterns of trees, and the relative advantages of dwarf and semi-dwarf trees. Again, you can find plenty of info on the net on this topic.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Greetings fellow Kansan:
I live in North-central KS and have purchased apple trees, strawberry and raspberry plants from Miller Nurseries over the last several years and have been satisfied with their plant material and service. No, I don't have any interest in the company, just a satisfied customer. Also, they have a fairly wide selection of apples to choose from.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miller Nurseries

I have not had good luck with Stark Bros, however they did replace some trees but they were not much better.... just dont buy anything from garden direct, bad products and bad PR.... millers are good also as is raintree.. good luck, bob in oklahoma

Willis is high $$. I was very dissatisfied with what I got ...3 puny trees for almost $190 And the trees turned out poor. They even sold me an apricot tree for zone 7 and I told them I'm in zone 6. I would not buy from them again.

I bought at Lowes and they sucked. Nice thing is you can practice planting trees and refund the trees in 365 days if they don't do well.

A local nursery had high priced stuff with borers in them and would not stand behind them... I wont go back.

I found Southern Sates Co-op and was VERY VERY happy. Giant selection of hundreds of fruit trees, priced right and large trees too. I could get 8 fruit trees at the Co-op for 3 at Willis and the Co-op's were triple the size and produced fruit this year.

http://www.southernstates.com/

Although Millers and Starks may have good trees, they don't indicate what root stock they use. You might be able to get this info by contacting them. But, with Adam's County Nursery, you know what root stock you're getting, and in many cases can select from several root stocks to meeet your needs. I'd recommend ACN.

Van Well Nursery is pretty cheap and they have quite a few rootstocks to choose from. Garden Watchdog has only positive ratings for them. Their trees are $15.95 a piece and that includes shipping. It's about a third of that for quantities of 50 or more but I think freight charges are added at the time of your order. I plan on ordering some cherry and peach trees from them in a couple weeks. If I liked modern apple varieties I'd probably order quite a few trees from them. You can't order over the internet yet but the site says you'll be able to soon.

Here is a link that might be useful: Van Well Nursery

larry t is right about not knowing what rootstock you get from Stark.
But not all of us care to worry over such things and leave it to the pros.

My present Stark trees are old and I'm pretty close to them for climate and soil and so far they've done me right with their rootstock.
My semi-dwarf never has any suckers. My dwarfs use a dwarfing interstem, I'm assuming to use a better anchoring semi-dwarf rootstock (but not the same as the semi-dwarf because they do sucker, maybe that's because of the interstem).
It took a few tries to get my Butternut to take but they stood by their no questions asked 1yr warranty.
The sizes are just what they advertised.

But my attempt at a sweet cherry from them mysteriously died this year (probably too wet of a year for that tree being so young in my clay) so I don't have anything recent with any age to judge them on. All I can say was the service on the bare root sweet cherry didn't strike me as being any different than they've ever been.

I'm a believer in trying to get trees created close to you. If I was somewhere else in the country I'd probably have trees from a different nursery.
I'm not a believer in going extremely local with a greenhouse who simply mail orders bare root, sticks them in a pot and puts a price tag on them.
Lowes has burned me out of trying another non-nursery tree.

Hi,
Thanks for all of the replies. Sorry for the late post. I misplaced the name of this forum and just found you again tonight. Without knowing your advice, I ordered 16 trees from Willis Orchards. Ranging from 6 to 15 ft. tall. They are to come this week. 14 are fruit trees. Apple, Nectarine, Apricot, Cherry, Pear, and Peach and then 2 Red Oak. I have been to my local extension office and they gave me info on pruning. We have rented a bob cat with a 36 inch augor. My husband is concerned about making the hole too deep. Thus, HELP!! What do I need to do to take care of these things! Obviously this is starting out as an expensive hobby. We have one apricot tree and got over 500 apricots this year. We were so excited that I decided to make an "orchard." I am so impressed this your site and the responsed I got. Too bad that I lost the link and got the large trees, if I should have gotten the small ones. Anything special that I should put in the holes when I plant them?
Thanks

What to put into the holes you dig?
The dirt that came out of them.
Your trees will have to grow in your native soil at some point in time; they might as well get on with the job, and right away.
In most instances, unless you have pure sand, amending the soil in your planting hole is a bad idea - better to keep them mulched well and allow earthworms and soil microbes to 'deep cycle' the organic matter.

Sorry,
I did not phase my question well. Do I need to add fertilizer or anything?

Kansas fruiter:

Actually, you did phrase your question clearly, and Lucky's answer was equally clear. Dig the hole, then gradually replace the soil as you plant your very large trees. Do not add any bagged topsoil, compost, peat moss, or anything else to the soil you return, and, above all, no fertilizers at this point.

You have probably spent a lot more money than you needed to start your orchard, but no point crying over spilled milk. Does a 36 inch auger mean 36 inches wide, or 36 inches deep? Certainly, no hole for a fruit tree should have to be that deep. Normally, 12-14 inches deep is adequate for a fruit tree, although it helps to loosen the soil in a much wider area around the trees. It is a shame you will incur the additional expense of renting a Bobcat because of the size of your trees. I would never use machinery like that to plant fruit trees, and would rely instead on a spade.

You have not asked about spacing between the trees, but I would recommend a spacing of 12-15 feet minimum for most of them, especially if you are not cramped for space. I hope I turn out the be wrong that larger trees are a bad bet, but I am afraid that two to four years from now you might agree with me.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Welcome back Kansasfruiter, drill the planting holes only as deep as the pot. If you dig the hole too deep tap the soil down firmly so the tree does not later settle below the graft. You want to make the planting hole 2-3X wider than the pot. The roots can grow out through the loose soil and not remain 'pot bound'. Large potted trees should be soil amended and bare root trees should not unless the soil is deficient. You can add super phosphate to the bottom of the hole and cover with some soil. When you dig the hole save the topsoil and pile it on one side. Discard the subsoil. Mix the topsoil with peat moss and fill around the root ball. You want the roots to easily grow out. Mulch to conserve water and reduce grass around the tree. Prune broken branches. In the next few weeks, apply the first dormant spray to sanitize the trees. I use Chlorothalonil then Volck dormant oil.

Thanks for the help. Sounds like I needed it. The augor will go 3ft wide and deep. If I understand right, I only need to go 3ft wide. As the trees are not here yet, I might go 2 ft deep, and can fill it back in if I need. What do you mean by graft? The bobcat was not too expensive. We live in a small town and got it for the whole weekend for $130. With a total of 16 trees, counting the two 15 ft red oak, I think I needed it. My husband and brother are OK to help with the holes, but did not have the time to dig them by hand. Do I water these trees throughout the winter? If all goes well, maybe I can post some pictures when they come. Ordering from an internet company, I am a bit nervous. Thanks

Kansasfruiter, You'll see the graft at the base of the tree trunk. You can also mix a combination organic fertilizer into the topsoil back fill. Inspect every tree and inform the shipper of any damage. Have the shipper mark down damage on both invoices. It happens, and the shipper will reimburse the nursery to replace the tree. Do take photos and post them here. Wow, over 500 apricots on one tree, you have the luck. What kind? I'll bet you don't even spray.

Thanks for the help. I will be sure to take pictures. Holes are dug and even my husband is getting excited! Haven't sprayed the apricot ever, but I need to treat it for bores? Someone told us that the tree needed to be treated. Can I do that now? The apricots were awesome. We have lived here for 3 summers. Usually get about 200 apricots, but this year got about 500. So many that my husband would get on the roof of the house (the apricot tree over hangs the roof), and pass buckets down to me and the kids. Here is what I having coming...

2 Bing Cherry
2 Ranier Cherry
2 Nectarine
3 Peaches
1 Sugar Pear
2 Yellow Delicious (already have 2 red delicious)
2 Apricots

Thanks for the comments! Jenny

Hi Kansas fruiter,

About borers: Don't know what part of Kansas you're from, but I'm also from Kansas (near Kansas City) and haven't seen borers on anything except perhaps a few dogwood borers on apples. Don't be too anxious to spray for things until you see what pests your dealing with, they'll be plenty of time for spraying when you see what problems you have. I've seen lots of unsprayed peach trees around here and never seen a borer (apricots get the same type of borers as peaches). Regarding the planting, Lucky and Don Yellman have given you good advice. I'm on another online fruit group with them, that's tailored for more in-depth fruit discussion. They are both recognized as seasoned fruit veterans, and know their stuff.

Regarding winter watering. Water the trees once after you plant then (assuming the weather's normal) forget about it till next July.

Thanks Olpea,
I appreciate the advice. Live in the middle of KS. We have a good County Agent, so I will have him over to check out the Apricot.

Fed Ex. freight called to set-up delivery. They stated that is was 200 lbs. I am not sure if that is alot or a little, for 16 trees, doesn't sound like very much. I found a great website on planting bareroot trees. Guess I will get started tomorrow.

Fruiter:

Good Lord, 200 pounds! Sounds more like a lumber shipment. Did they tell you the cost of shipping from South Georgia? Ouch. Such is the instant orchard from Willis, son of TyTy.

I sure wouldn't let those trees sit around long before getting them in the ground, or they may actually turn into lumber.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

olpea, this is your first post here. But I have to disagree with;

"Don't be too anxious to spray for things until you see what pests your dealing with, they'll be plenty of time for spraying when you see what problems you have."

The trees are potted large bearing age fruit trees from a nursery that sells every kind of large bearing age fruit tree. Sanitize the trees with dormant spray ASAP!

"Water the trees once after you plant then (assuming the weather's normal) forget about it till next July." Newly planted trees shouldn't go eight months without watering.

Ace:

I think these are bareroot trees rather than potted. At least that is how they are described on the Willis website. As for the watering, I think Olpea is assuming adequate precipitation. Here in Northern Virginia I have seldom had to water newly planted trees, spring or fall, unless normal rainfall patterns change. Our annual average is about 40 inches; Kansas probably gets less, especially in the north.

The issue here will be successfully transplanting bareroot trees that are apparently very large. I saw some on the the Willis website described as 7-8 feet tall and priced well north of $100 each. When I see this kind of thing, I just shudder. Of course, they sell much smaller trees too, and some of them look like pretty good buys if you like the varieties they carry.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Don, my point was that these large trees come from bearing age nursery with the fruit diseases and eggs attached to the bark. kansasfruiter gets big Apricot harvests with no spray. Infect kansasfruiter disease free orchard ??? In olpeas defense you seem to have missed the dormant spray, while being the authority on watering, you know nothing of the soil conditions.

Being from Kansas Olpea kind of does know the soil and weather conditions.

July would be pushing it here but a good watering now would stick around until it stays thawed in the spring.

Ace:

Any nursery worthy of the name maintains a spray program on their nursery stock. Nursery shipments from many states include a phytosanitary certificate, certifying that the stock is free from pests and diseases. I very much support spraying when that is necessary, but there is such a thing as spray overkill. Of course, dormant oil when planting would not be harmful, but I wouldn't call it a top priority.

I am frankly puzzled at how Kansas Fruiter obtains perfect apricots without problems from plum curculio or oriental fruit moth -- and no spraying at all. It's difficult enough just to get apricots past the late freeze. If I tried no-spray on my apricots I would get zero.

As for watering, keeping competing weeds and grasses away from the trees, and applying a thick layer of stable manure or other mulch around the trees really reduces the need for watering. Watering the fruit trees has never been an issue for me, except in conditions of extreme and prolonged drought, which are rare where I live. I know that locations like California where summer drought is a normal event are quite different.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Adding to the conversation, my mom a couple miles a way gets awesome apples and has never sprayed either. Both the apricots and the apples tasted delicious.

Trees are here! They actually sent them in containers, not bare root. Only got 8, they stated the other 8 were not ready and they wanted to get me a partial order. Will take pictures later today and post. Much better than I could have imagined.

That's nice they halved your order. It sure makes it easier on you to get them all planted before they suffer any damage.

I'm amazed anyone can get fruit without spraying. I did for a short while but then the bugs found me.

The Fed Ex man was shocked by the quality. Stated that Fed Ex delivers a lot of trees and some are dead when picked up. States that these looked exceptional.

Ace,
Regarding tree watering. We get about 40" of water per year around here. Central Kansas gets a few inches less. Last time I checked we were at 42" so far for this year. Our rain is fairly spread out except in summer. May and June both get 5" per month, July less. Wintertime doesn't get as much rain, but the ground stays wet, if you dig down. Kansas soils vary, but most are clay based with varying amounts of organic matter. In normal years, watering is not an issue until July, even with new trees. Over-watering is the danger here, especially with someone excited about their new fruit trees, and anxious to make them grow (I speak from my own experience/folly). A little mulch around the trees would be beneficial.

Regarding dormant spray on new trees. Not going to hurt anything, but I don't know how much it'll help either. Dormant oil, as you know, doesn't get rid of any major pests, just a few aphids, mites, and scale, which aren't generally a problem anyway, except in an intensive spray orchards. Even so, I am not aware oil has complete eraticative abilities. Likewise, Chlorothalonil, for fungus.

I only skimmed through the above posts quickly, so if I repeat something, sorry.

Since the trees were in containers, be sure to inspect them carefully for encircling roots (even inside the rootball) before or while planting! If encircling roots are found, they must be addressed while planting.

If the holes you dug were deeper than the rootball, firm the soil under the rootball well before planting to decrease the likelihood of settling. The top of the rootball (the top of the highest root) should rest at or just slightly above the surrounding grade when planted. Any graft should be above soil level.

Don't add amendments to the fill dirt. Use only the soil you removed from the hole. Amendments frequently cause drainage issues and root growth problems. Old school thought was that amendments helped the tree get off to a better start, but this has been proven untrue in pretty much all modern studies.

Mulch the planting site at least as far out as the hole you dug. Farther out is better. If you use hardwood mulch or small bark chips, about 3" is a good depth. Mulch should not be placed up against the trunk. Leave a few inches right around the trunk unmulched. Mulching adjacent to the trunk can lead to trunk rot, contribute to disease issues, and give cover to rodents that might like a bite out of your tree. "Mulch volcanoes" should definitely be avoided.

Kansasfruiter; "The Fed Ex man was shocked by the quality. Stated that Fed Ex delivers a lot of trees and some are dead when picked up. States that these looked exceptional."

Now that's a hoot. Willis nursery shipped potted trees from Georgia with the leaves still on. Fed Ex ships dormant bare root trees believes they were dead.

Kansas Fruiter:

These are troubling developments. Ace figures Willis shipped trees that are not yet in dormancy, which would account for the fact they are potted. Your FedEX guy may not be the best judge of nursery stock for fall (almost winter!) planting in Kansas.

If Ace is right, and I think he may be, your large, expensive trees are in for a hell of a shock when they encounter the Kansas winter. This might also help explain why they did not ship the other eight trees. They are not dormant yet either.

It may begin to sound that I and some of our colleagues here are hoping for the failure of your new orchard planting. I don't think that's the case, and it certainly is not for me. I hope, in spite of signs to the contrary, that your orchard grows and prospers. But I do think you could have taken better advantage of the advice available to your here.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Don,
Thanks for clarifying that you do not wish for the trees to fail, however, let me clarify that I never thought you did. I feel that this forum is a great place to get advice. If I did not, I would not participate. Please realize that had I found the forum again, prior to ordering, I would have not ordered large trees and would have most likely used the Adams County nursery. That said, the trees were ordered and I must make the best of the situation.

The trees that were shipped have no leaves. I believe the fed ex man was commenting on the size and packing. They look better in the dormant state than I would have expected.

Kansasfruiter, do not be concerned about planting large trees. Every winter I routinely transplant several up to 4 yr dormant fruit trees to cram in more trees in my home orchard. I've noticed next season the transplants produce good as the identical tree not moved. Last fall we planted potted and bare root at our cabin in upstate NY z5. The temps go to -20 and there was only a little small tip die back but they bloomed well last spring. The delivery men here also think bare root trees are dead, and potted leafy trees are good, when we inspect the delivery for damage. I do think it is wise to sanitise your trees with copper and/or chlorothalonil so you don't introduce brown rot or other diseases prevalent in Georgia. Most of us have to spray repeatedly and bag to harvest good fruit. You have a garden of Eden for growing fruit trees. I believe this is because Kansas prairie/farmland has few wild prunus species or abandoned orchards to proliferate disease. Ask your local extension agent.

Our orchard is on the Johnson/Douglas county line in Kansas. We have to spray the trunk to the first branches at the end of May to first part of July for borers. This plus a sulpher or copper application (to prevent curl) earlier in the year usually produces healthy peach trees for us.