I'd be thinking more about getting a frost free site than what zone it is in. Usually a site that is frost free in the spring will not get as cold in mid winter. So there will be plenty of 6b sites in a generalized Z5. I've read about banana belt sites in the mountains of NC. These are sites on the side of hills and mountains with great air drainage. In the fall everything in the bottoms and hilltops freezes while the hill sides stay green. I'm sure the same would apply further north. Finding such a site is the hard part.

Also, don't underestimate the difficulties of growing fruit in the country. You're likely to grow more fruit on a small patch where you are than on an acreage in the country.

The Fruitnut

Hi Fruitnut,

VERY interesting.

1. Would there be zone 6b (actual) sites on "zone 5a" sites - or more like zone 6b sites on "zone 5b" sites. I thought maybe a zone 6a site could be found on a listed "zone 5b" sites, but if this is the case, then great.

2. I wonder how likely it is to get a realator out there to help me find a site like this.

3. If the land is a field and not water-logged, what are the reazons that an acreage in the country would present a problem - bears?

Thanks,
Steve

One way to know if a site is relatively warm (has a longer growing season with fewer killing frosts) is to look for land in mid-fall when you can compare how far along native trees are towards dormancy. Best fruit growing areas are often known in the East and will already have established orchards. People have been growing fruit here for 300 years but you might luck out, I guess, and discover your own tiny "banana belt".

As far as productivity- of course you will be able to grow a wider range of varieties in a 6 than a 5 and some would yield more with a longer season- at least over time. But your question really seems to be can you find a Z6 in regions that are predominantly 5.

I think it's the leeward (southeast) side of large bodies of water that have moderated temps as in far upstate NY, not far from Buffalo and areas like Lake Geneva. Also along rivers such as the Hudson Valley and running up the Housatonic in CT.

Some of the fruit you listed, like cold-hardy figs and Jap persimmons aren't going to work for you, even in a Z6 without protection.

Steve: Harvestman is right. The good commercial sites are identified. Most either have good air drainage or are near a large body of water that moderates spring and fall temperatures. The commercial sites are large, say 10 acres or more. There could be small areas, say half an acre, that are suitable. But mostly you will be gaining a few degrees, not 10-15F. Study the areas where they grow fruit commercially and understand why.

You will have problems with bear, deer, coons, etc, etc. Good fencing will be a minimum requirement. You will need a source of water for spraying and tree establishment. You cann't just plant the trees and come back once a month to harvest your bounty.

The Fruitnut

>Some of the fruit you listed, like cold-hardy figs and Jap persimmons aren't >going to work for you, even in a Z6 without protection.

Figs will certainly need protection, but there are several varieties of Asian persimmon that do fine in zone 6 without protection.

Alex

Z6 can get to -20 on a test winter. I am trying to grow Japanese persimmons (for about 20 years) but they keep dying in my Z6 and I know of no one who succesfully grows them around here- never seen any at a farmers market. I think south Jersey and maybe up to Long Island right by the coast you can grow them. I've got a Shin in a pot but I don't have the nerve to risk the plant by leaving it out in the winter. I'm going to graft a piece of it on a native instead.

I know someone in Wayne, New Jersey who grows either 'Jiro' or 'Ichi Kei Jiro' persimmons - no mulch, nothing. They've been doing great for 10 years. The climate is zone 6b and not too low or high elevation. Google the elevation of 07047: Wayne, NJ.

I think that my newly planted Asian Persimmon: 'Saijo' is rated to go down to -20 F. You should grow this variety - it's the sweetest, anyway. Alexander is correct.

Btw, I want to grow native fruits - xeroscaping (sic?).
So I should try to get land next to an established orchard.

It's been about 10 year since the last test winter but If I can get crops in between it might be worth it. Global warming and all.

The thing is that its the non-astringent varieties that I really lust for which is why the Shin is my thing, I'm OK with sweet slime but if I can get a little firmness it's better. I'm waiting to see if I can really get the sugar up with this variety. It's supposed to be the hardiest non-astringent.

The -20 reliability is extremely suspect- it all depends on a trees state of hardening- a warm spell in winter followed by extreme cold can be lethal for trees said to be hardier in colder temps than what turns out to kill them. The cold areas in Asia are said not to have this problem as their winters are very stable.

10 years seems like a long time but we've been on a fairly mild run for about the last decade. Still, I'm excited to know that someone has had success as far up and inland as Wayne. Thanks for the info.

Another thing to consider is that as a very general rule, the colder the zone, the fewer problems you'll have with insects and diseases. That might be an issue with your stone fruits.

That said, here in zone 5 central NY, I don't know anyone growing persimmons or figs. Our farmers market is huge, but I've never seen these fruits offered there. Peaches are unreliable. Your other fruits can do well here. Have you considered pawpaws? They do well here.

Here in New York City, (I know a warmer zone) I grow asian persimmons without a problem at all. I also grow white figs (which I cover in the winter time)