Chuck: I'd prune the weaker one and train the other to go vertical. You can tip them quite a bit when they're young. Applenut

I don't have pictures- as crazy as that is. I'm really pretty technically backwards and it took years of prodding from my son and wife to enter the internet age. I have changed over entire orchards of wild seedlings for clients that I should have taken a photographic history of to record the process. Same thing with very huge old apple trees that I transformed from being ugly mismanaged things into graceful specimens.Thing is, there's always something more directly practical to do on work days. However the process is pretty straight forward and as long as you use well lit water sprouts (as said, pencil thick, more or less, is good) and go for not more than 4 total scaffolds on an open center tree you will get there. On a central leader tree another construction method may be called for where upper tiers are formed from a single graft in center of tree. You can start to harvest more fruit sooner by putting 2 or 3 grafts along the length of the old scaffold and just gradually eliminate pieces farther out on the branch as interior one takes over.

You must have set them straight, Scott, because all 10 of mine have generous moist roots. It's impossible to tell if the grafts are good, because they are all wrapped up. Two of the scions are skinny, but I understand that should be OK as long as they are lined up OK on one side. All the root stock and scions I got from Wagon Wheel looked good, too. I am aware that bench grafts are a risk, but it is the only way to get some of the heritage apples, so I will cross my fingers and take good care of them. My only complaint about Greenmantle, and it is very minor, is that they graft quite low. I'd prefer to have the graft just a bit higher.

Applenut, IMHO I would not use seedling rootstocks. They are unpredictable and don't have the drought tolerance and climate adaptability that MM-111 provides. In Santa Cruz county, MM111 is the preferred rootstock because under dry conditions, growth won't shut down. With other rootstocks, adverse weather conditions can shut down growth and it's much harder to get the tree going again. I have had very poor luck with seedling rootstocks in my poor soil and southwest facing hillside that cooks up to 100F in the Summertime. MM111 will generally overtake a seedling in no time. Antonovka seedlings have been especially terrible for me, they don't take well to dry sandy soil. Also, a number of local growers have noticed that MM111 seems to lower overall chill requirements for many cultivars. I don't know how this works, and why it does, suffice to say MM111 has proven itself in our milder climate. If you really need a low chill vigorous rootstock, then you might want to root Northern Spy, this is one of the parents of MM111, and it's quite vigorous, and cuttings will actually root. It should have some similar traits to MM111 except be much more vigorous. Variety wise, I think Anna and Dorsett Golden are good choices, but I've always been curious about the "truly tropical" apples, e.g. those that require a super long growing season to ripen, and will not ripen well in shorter season climates. The varieties that come to mind are all from the Southern hemisphere, and include Granny Smith, Lady Williams, Sundowner, and perhaps even pink lady, one of the only apples in my backyard that doesn't get sunburned. These varieties seem to not be very sensitive to lack of chill accumulation. I believe Granny Smith even came from Sydney surroundings, where the climate is as mild as coastal Southern California, but with humid Summers. Around here, Granny Smith ripens as yellow table apples in mid January along with Pink lady, followed by Lady Williams in early Febuary, and then Sundowner a bit later. The trees defoliate here just as the apples ripen. The only drawback of the longer season varieties when grown in the tropics is that you have to get them through the rainy season with fruits on them, not a good prospect when it comes to disease, but maybe some of them are disease resistant. The trouble with Anna and Dorsett golden is that they are disease prone in humid climates, so one would need to breed in resistance into low chill cultivars. You may want to post to the Cloudforest at www.cloudforest.com/cafe/, there are a bunch of tropical fruit growers there that also grow apples in some of the mildest parts of California, Australia and New Zealand. There are lots of discussions there about low chill apple cultivars.