"For those in California you can get Perlite at OSH for about $11 for 2 cf. They have the Earthgro there also." Thanks Gman. How have you found the OSH Perlite so far? I visit the store near me often. It's the one on Bundy but they never seem to stock the large Perlite bags, also things tend to cost more there. Is the Perlite itself very fine? This Perlite seems to have the highest ratio of large granules that I have found so far. "Rudy - the lime serves both to raise pH and to act as a source of Ca & Mg. It acts somewhat 'locally' because of its insolubility, and for that reason is best when incorporated thoroughly throughout the root zone."Ahhh. So then that makes perfect sense. For whatever reason I thought it was minutely water soluble. "FWIW - if I had my druthers, I would have chosen either peat or a peat-based potting soil as a replacement for the 1 part peat in the 5:1:1 ratio. Not trying to be critical - just helpful. ;-) "Are you kiddn' you're so nice I don't think it's possible to be offended by you. Besides I'm clearly a noob. :) Now I purchased Gardening soil instead of Potting soil for this exact reason. This product contains Sphagnum Peat Moss in it and its texture resembles peat moss much closer than the potting soil. Home Depot does sell Peat Moss also from Miracle Grow, as I can't seem to get away from this brand. :O But it is augmented. I also found some peat moss at the store that I purchased the Perlite from but it was from Alaska and not Canada, so I got cold feet, not knowing if it was any good. Can you explain, or point me with a link to an explanation, why you prefer 100% peat moss to a soil mixture that contains it? "Thanks, Al! Hey, Rudy, Al nailed it. I try to mix the Lime as thoroughly as possible.... I sort of dust and stir, dust and stir, until it looks as though the Lime has lightly coated all the bark. " Hmmm this makes me a little nervous. The Espoma Garden Lime I purchased isn't in the powder form. It looks like tiny round balls, some bigger some smaller. But all of them smaller than a grain of rice.

I would have to say that it took time but well worth the effort. Chopping that up took a lot out of me but it was a work out. I am kind of in shape but have ankle, knee and hip problems from an old highschool injury many years ago so I have to sit down to do a lot of the work. I am approaching 40 now and trying to get back in shape and by doing that and how good my body felt after the sorness went away I would do it again next year. However there may not be a need to because I bought the Agway Pine Bark which is near perfect. The price is also excellent I think they have a deal where you can buy 3 to for 4 (3 cubic ft bags) for around $20. The price keeps lowering the more bags you buy. Also I love the cheap cost of Peatmoss. $10 for 3-4 Cubic ft. The perlite is the problem with expense though. Now I would use a commercial mix but the cost would be far too high. I had to fill 9 (20) gallon containers and 15 (5-7) Gallon containers. So as a safe estimate I filled about 250+ gallons which would work out to about 16 (2 Cubic ft ) bags of a commercial mix. If I did my math right I estimate that 15 gallons is about equal to 2 cubic Ft. I estimate that I have spent $20 for about 6-7 Cubic Ft of Peat moss, $50-$60 for Perlite, $10 for 40lbs of Garden Lime, and about $50 in Pine bark. So Let's say I spent around $140 for 16 bags (2 cubic Ft) of mix then the total price per 2 cubic Ft would be about $8-9. This is also not to mention that I have plenty of Peat moss (about 2 cu ft) and a bunch of lime along with more perlite left over. So technically I saved over $100 if I were to buy a commercial 2 CU Ft. Mix bag at about $15. Now if only had to make a small amount I would totally buy commercial and I almost did but the cost was way to high. I also forgot to mention that I did not use control release Ferts, instead I used MG liquid soluable tomato food. This was because it was cheap at the time and I was on a limited budget, but next year I will do it after this crazy weather. Here in Philly area we just got about 7+ inches of rain in one day a few days back and another inch yesterday. It has been very tricky to plan the fertilization days. Edit: I forgot that I had 4 (5) gallon Bell peppers in the front growing and my Yellow Kellogs in 2 (16 Gal) containers so that would make it 300 Gallons of Mix I made which would bring the price down to about $7 per (2 Cu Ft). Also the production is doing great. This post was edited by thebutcher on Fri, Aug 2, 13 at 14:19

Around here the pine bark mix at Home Depot that works is the #302 Golden Trophy bags. I've been using this for the last 4 or 5 years. The only problem is that the #302 bags vary significantly from pallet to pallet. You need to check an open bag and make sure. If the chunks are small then the entire pallet is probably OK. If not the bags in the entire pallet is not usable. I got burned this year in my first buy and had to unload all the bags to someone's in ground garden (after a harsh winter I wasn't thinking straight :-). The bags were wet and the chunks seemed small after a quick inspection but after getting them home they stunk (which I heard was not good) and had a lot of sticks and bigger chunks hidden in them. A week later I went to a different Home Depot and found a pallet of perfect #302 pine bark and loaded up as many bags that will fit into the van. A couple of years ago the good pallet of #302 was behind a bad pallet which required me to climb over the bad pallet to get to the good pallet. The employees at Home Depot must have thought I was nuts. Last year I found #302 Golden Trophy at Menards with the same pallet to pallet differences but this year Menards doesn't seem to carry it.

I only had 2 problems with 5-1-1. dried out too fast in july-sept. and too light in weight when the Santa Anna winds blow. I've been using pomice (white chunks about the size of smaller sized Perlite). I guess you could call it 5-1-1-1. I also use as low as 3 parts bark instead of 5 for certain plants. I use 5 parts bark but add more perlite and or pomice so it ends up 3-4 parts bark. Basically mix up 5-1-1 but add pomice and or extra perlite. I only grow non bell Peppers,nothing else. I don't like adding organic stuff like manure to my mix as a replacement for peat. It comes back to bite me in the butt when/after it breaks down and washes to the bottom of the pot after 1 season. I end up with sludge in the bottom that stops proper drainage. I never sift anything out for size etc. I just mix the stuff straight from the bag. BUT I use FINE orchid bark that is REALLY uniform(and more expensive than fines). I believe it was already sifted since growing orchid of various kinds has to have some pretty exact soil mixes... I tried orchid mix but it has sand in it. Sand sucks in pots,works it's way to the bottom and forms cement. I find 5-1-1 needs to be fine tuned for different varieties of peppers. It might be a PH issue,water retention thing,heat of the soil mix for roots or whatever. I do know I get monster C.Pubesvens with the 3-4 bark mix with 1-1-1 where other peppers like the 5-1-1-1 better. I never used tarface(whatever-SP?). I don't know what the difference is between water retention with Pomice and tarface. I use my mix for at least 5 seasons with only topping off the pots as needed with new mix as it shrinks.degrades.Bark decomposes or whatever. I DO use more Dolomite Lime than is recomended. It supplies a VERY slow release of Ca. and Mag. as it breaks down. I don't see any PH issues in the years I've been messing with the original 5-1-1 mix. I probably add at least 2X the amount recommended originally in the posts here. BUT I am a big believer in adding Ca. to pepper plants via the soil. I like soaking dolomite lime in vinegar to make calcium acetate (bloom sprays for bud set sold at $$$$ for a cup). I think the Dolomite Lime and Vinegar stuff adds both Mag. and Ca, in even amounts for the plant.The acetate is usable by the plant as a foliar spray and a fert. additive. SO they say... Mag. and Ca. are taken up by the same receptors in plants. PH is supposed to make both usable by the plant,though I think adding both in even amounts lets the plant take what it needs at the time. I think as long as you supply both in small amounts the plant will take either as it needs it. Larger amounts of either I think is supposed to flood the receptor with only 1 of the 2. In general,my plants tell me when they aren't happy. IF I figured things out right I get the results I want. I get greener plants adding the right light than adding ferts, in general. As a side note.I think foliar feeding is mostly a waste,I think the runoff of what you are spraying is what is really doing whatever to your plants. IF your soil is cool and the ferts are cool for the roots,that is all that matters. Leaves were designed to make sun do certain stuff for plants,roots were designed to feed the plant. I find a LOT of people that are into making different witches brews their first season especially in new raised beds or pots saying Teas are the way to go. I think tea runoff in the soil is what is really doing the super growth in general. I don't see anyone who says they are doing a comparison between foliar feeding and not foliar feeding spraying the same stuff as a soil drench or preventing the runoff from foliar feeding from dripping into the soil. That to me is what is needed to prove if either is better than the other. I personally think a small dose of organic ferts. evertime I water is best. Feeds the stuff in the soil AND the roots. I also think all the micro this or that shouldn't be needed as a constant additive if you have good soil in the first place. That stuff should or could be added when you first mix up fresh soil,after that,I THINK,if your soil is cool,it will reproduce itself as long as your soil is cool. Once the micro whatever is established in the soil you should be set up forever IF you keep your soil cool. The micro whatever is a living fungus/whatever and if you keep your soil right you don't need to keep buying or brewing all the stuff forever. I wonder why Molasses is considered a good thing to add to the teas. I brew beer. Molasses turns to the precursor for RUM,Alcohol,then breaks down to vinegar(acetic acid). Only thing I can think of is it kills the bio process as an alcohol BUT as in the acetic acid state it turns some of the teas nutes into plant usable nutes. Without actual lab tests or whatever.Adding a sugar might kill off all the yeast type stuff that is responsible for fermenting a tea and only adding whatever is an acetate of the nutes you made. I'd think alcohol would kill a lot of the stuff they say is being produced by the tea. Seems to boil back down to,IF your soil is cool you don't need to mess with other stuff that might have,at one stage had the bio stuff in it at first but the finished brew isn't what it had in the first place when you actually use the stuff. Might boil down to since an acetate of certain nutes is plant usable in an acetate by the plant,specific nutes are getting used from your teas. A lot that were there-that were killed by the alcohol might be lost. Depends at what stage you used your tea I think and soil chemistry that was present at the time. To me,too many people aren't happy unless they are constantly messing with their plants. Most would have the same growth whether they used whatever tea or not. Since they brewed a tea and got happy plants they feel like everything they did was needed to be done. They overlook that they might have gotten the same results from using fish emulsion and seaweed extract or whatever with a maybe a shot of micro nutes (at first as a kick start). Guess I got side tracked.Just trying to give everyone what I think works with what I use - 5-1-1 mix and my experiences over the years using it. 5-1-1 I think is a great start for a potting soil.BUT it isn't the thing to use for every grow,in general unless you have the time to water 2-3 times a day in places like I live/grow in. I've found out that the 5-1-1 is a lot better the second year. I think the bark soaked up more nutes and the PH is more stable. After a couple seasons I find it works even better. Probably better than early years due to less nitrogen loss due to bark and peat breakdown and a more even nute ballance or ? I forgot to say I add 14-14-14 osmacote to my first year mix and use a 1/10th +/- mix of fish emultion and seaweed extract every time I water. This post was edited by smokemaster_2007 on Fri, Apr 19, 13 at 5:18