I've used 511 for a couple years here in Florida....I like to experiment a bit....this season I added a portion of Milorganite (sewage sludge Nitrogen)....Here's a Happy Habernaro

Keep your compost about ONE part.....replacing the peat or in addition to.....that way you still have your basic structure but just a little sweeter.......Your mix will hold more water

doug

Bruce,

I added 1 part of cow manure to four of my 5-1-1 pots just to see. I did not add any other Ferts and they all seems to be doing well. (Been in final containers for a week now).

Bill

Hmmm, OK, I will probably mix it in with my 5-1-1. Still a couple/three or more weeks away from containers though. I have a lot of sifting to do between now and then.
Bruce

I'd only use it on a few test plants.

Truly, I wouldn't recommend it at all for a container, but if you replace the "peat" fraction it should be alright. Doug's comments are spot on regarding moisture retention.

Josh

I only had 2 problems with 5-1-1.
dried out too fast in july-sept. and too light in weight when the Santa Anna winds blow.

I've been using pomice (white chunks about the size of smaller sized Perlite).
I guess you could call it 5-1-1-1.
I also use as low as 3 parts bark instead of 5 for certain plants.
I use 5 parts bark but add more perlite and or pomice so it ends up 3-4 parts bark.
Basically mix up 5-1-1 but add pomice and or extra perlite.
I only grow non bell Peppers,nothing else.
I don't like adding organic stuff like manure to my mix as a replacement for peat.
It comes back to bite me in the butt when/after it breaks down and washes to the bottom of the pot after 1 season.
I end up with sludge in the bottom that stops proper drainage.
I never sift anything out for size etc.
I just mix the stuff straight from the bag.
BUT I use FINE orchid bark that is REALLY uniform(and more expensive than fines).
I believe it was already sifted since growing orchid of various kinds has to have some pretty exact soil mixes...
I tried orchid mix but it has sand in it.
Sand sucks in pots,works it's way to the bottom and forms cement.

I find 5-1-1 needs to be fine tuned for different varieties of peppers.
It might be a PH issue,water retention thing,heat of the soil mix for roots or whatever.
I do know I get monster C.Pubesvens with the 3-4 bark mix with 1-1-1 where other peppers like the 5-1-1-1 better.
I never used tarface(whatever-SP?).
I don't know what the difference is between water retention with Pomice and tarface.

I use my mix for at least 5 seasons with only topping off the pots as needed with new mix as it shrinks.degrades.Bark decomposes or whatever.

I DO use more Dolomite Lime than is recomended.
It supplies a VERY slow release of Ca. and Mag. as it breaks down.
I don't see any PH issues in the years I've been messing with the original 5-1-1 mix.
I probably add at least 2X the amount recommended originally in the posts here.

BUT I am a big believer in adding Ca. to pepper plants via the soil.
I like soaking dolomite lime in vinegar to make calcium acetate (bloom sprays for bud set sold at $$$$ for a cup).
I think the Dolomite Lime and Vinegar stuff adds both Mag. and Ca, in even amounts for the plant.The acetate is usable by the plant as a foliar spray and a fert. additive.
SO they say...
Mag. and Ca. are taken up by the same receptors in plants.
PH is supposed to make both usable by the plant,though I think adding both in even amounts lets the plant take what it needs at the time.
I think as long as you supply both in small amounts the plant will take either as it needs it.
Larger amounts of either I think is supposed to flood the receptor with only 1 of the 2.
In general,my plants tell me when they aren't happy.
IF I figured things out right I get the results I want.
I get greener plants adding the right light than adding ferts, in general.

As a side note.I think foliar feeding is mostly a waste,I think the runoff of what you are spraying is what is really doing whatever to your plants.
IF your soil is cool and the ferts are cool for the roots,that is all that matters.
Leaves were designed to make sun do certain stuff for plants,roots were designed to feed the plant.
I find a LOT of people that are into making different witches brews their first season especially in new raised beds or pots saying Teas are the way to go.
I think tea runoff in the soil is what is really doing the super growth in general.
I don't see anyone who says they are doing a comparison between foliar feeding and not foliar feeding spraying the same stuff as a soil drench or preventing the runoff from foliar feeding from dripping into the soil.
That to me is what is needed to prove if either is better than the other.
I personally think a small dose of organic ferts. evertime I water is best.
Feeds the stuff in the soil AND the roots.
I also think all the micro this or that shouldn't be needed as a constant additive if you have good soil in the first place.
That stuff should or could be added when you first mix up fresh soil,after that,I THINK,if your soil is cool,it will reproduce itself as long as your soil is cool.
Once the micro whatever is established in the soil you should be set up forever IF you keep your soil cool.
The micro whatever is a living fungus/whatever and if you keep your soil right you don't need to keep buying or brewing all the stuff forever.

I wonder why Molasses is considered a good thing to add to the teas.
I brew beer.
Molasses turns to the precursor for RUM,Alcohol,then breaks down to vinegar(acetic acid).
Only thing I can think of is it kills the bio process as an alcohol BUT as in the acetic acid state it turns some of the teas nutes into plant usable nutes.
Without actual lab tests or whatever.Adding a sugar might kill off all the yeast type stuff that is responsible for fermenting a tea and only adding whatever is an acetate of the nutes you made.
I'd think alcohol would kill a lot of the stuff they say is being produced by the tea.
Seems to boil back down to,IF your soil is cool you don't need to mess with other stuff that might have,at one stage had the bio stuff in it at first but the finished brew isn't what it had in the first place when you actually use the stuff.
Might boil down to since an acetate of certain nutes is plant usable in an acetate by the plant,specific nutes are getting used from your teas.
A lot that were there-that were killed by the alcohol might be lost.
Depends at what stage you used your tea I think and soil chemistry that was present at the time.
To me,too many people aren't happy unless they are constantly messing with their plants.
Most would have the same growth whether they used whatever tea or not.
Since they brewed a tea and got happy plants they feel like everything they did was needed to be done.
They overlook that they might have gotten the same results from using fish emulsion and seaweed extract or whatever with a maybe a shot of micro nutes (at first as a kick start).

Guess I got side tracked.Just trying to give everyone what I think works with what I use - 5-1-1 mix and my experiences over the years using it.

5-1-1 I think is a great start for a potting soil.BUT it isn't the thing to use for every grow,in general unless you have the time to water 2-3 times a day in places like I live/grow in.

I've found out that the 5-1-1 is a lot better the second year.
I think the bark soaked up more nutes and the PH is more stable.
After a couple seasons I find it works even better.
Probably better than early years due to less nitrogen loss due to bark and peat breakdown and a more even nute ballance or ?
I forgot to say I add 14-14-14 osmacote to my first year mix and use a 1/10th +/- mix of fish emultion and seaweed extract every time I water.

This post was edited by smokemaster_2007 on Fri, Apr 19, 13 at 5:18

SMokemaster, thanks for the "Rambling" post. Seems like a long list of do's and don'ts from someone who has been doing for many years and has some good sound advice.

One particular part that caught my interest was the fact that you "re-use" your 5-1-1 year after year. Is this common? I was under the impression that most people toss their mix at the end of each season and start fresh every year. If re-using the mix is not only acceptable but maybe even preferable, it would make me a lot more interested in using it. Can you clarify your take on this? Do you just leave the containers of 5-1-1 in the bucket and replant in the same one the following year? Do you remix it at all?
Bruce

I don't re-use the 5:1:1 - because this is the first year I've used it at all. But I will. Too much work just to toss it.

Fwiw, the MGMC "peat" component is on its second year.

smokie, I find that in small pots and in the current conditions the 5:1:1 mix actually retains water better than the MGMC. It will be interesting to see what happens in the summer.

Dennis

Man, Smokemaster, you gave some excellent information there about fine-tuning the 5-1-1, and many other helpful details.

My Manzano and my Black Pearl haven't been re-potted at all, so they'll be doing a second year in 5-1-1. I've pushed the 5-1-1 for several years with other plants, but not peppers. I look forward to report back. As Smokemaster says, I expect the mix to be more "bound" and stable, as far as moisture retention.

Josh

Well, I thought the 5-1-1 was strictly a one season deal. If I can reuse it for two or three years, then heck, it doesn't sound like quite so much effort after all. But this season will determine how much I want to pursue it in the coming seasons.
Bruce

I grow ferns, oaks, buckeye, maples, citrus, osage, willow, conifers (calocedrus, cedar, cryptomeria, cypress, picea abies, pine, sequoia), birch, holly, and pistache in 5-1-1 for 1 - 3 years before re-potting. That's not advised, but it happens. The fact that I use uncomposted bark buys my mix some extra time. As the mix ages, it invariably begins to hold more moisture.

Josh

I don't repot anything unless it seems rootbound.
I do use #15 pots or bigger.
I use it at least 5 yrs with only topping it off if I'm keeping the plant or stir it up with new mix if I'm tossing a plant.

5-1-1 is more or less growing hydroponically.
There isn't much of anything in the soil.
All the ingredients are slow breaking down.
I can't see tossing it out every season.
When I toss a plant I just mix all my old stuff with new mix to make up for whatever I lost and pot it up again.

http://s403.photobucket.com/user/smoemaster_2007/media/IM004559.jpg.ht ml?sort=3&o=334

http://s403.photobucket.com/user/smoemaster_2007/media/IM004470.jpg.ht ml?sort=3&o=415

http://s403.photobucket.com/user/smoemaster_2007/media/IM004451.jpg.ht ml?sort=3&o=431

This post was edited by smokemaster_2007 on Fri, Apr 19, 13 at 5:36