Ray, those are psyllids. Actually, they're the nymphs, but all that white stuff you see there is psyllid sugar (a.k.a. poop). I was looking at your plants in the other pictures, and it does look like your plants have suffered and ultimately died from psyllid yellows, as are some of mine.

Neither Sevin nor permethrin is going to do anything to kill them, and as long as they're around, they'll continue to feed off of, and infect your plants, but to date, I haven't found any information on how to completely eradicate them. The only thing you can do is to douse the plants in Spinosad on a regular basis, and hope that it does what it's supposed to - which is only to keep them at bay, and I'm pretty sure it requires ingestion.

All those little scaly things on the leaves are also nymphs, but in an earlier stage. As soon as you see any evidence of psyllid sugar, look on that leaf and on any surrounding ones, and you should see either the teeny tiny brown scales that kind of look like nothing more than minor leaf damage (but they're really bugs - eew), larger brown scales, greenish scales, whiteish to light brown winged things that aren't aphids, or grey/brown full grown psyllids that have the telltale white stripe across their bottom.

Well, Thanks (I think) for the information.

Seriously, I do appreciate your analysis of what is camping here. First year ever in seeing this. Keep me posted if you come across a safe treatment to eradicate them. Any idea as to why they are not attacking the Big Beef plants in the back of the yard? Or, haven't they found it yet???

Raybo

Just checked a Colorado Ag Publication. They do claim Permethrin will take care of them. As I have a bottle of 38% Concentrate in the garage, I think I will give this a shot. Next year, the key will be to apply EARLY, and not wait until one sees the "evidence". Lesson learned.

"""Control

Because these Insects are so small, damage to tomatoes or potatoes frequently occurs before the problem is detected. It is important to be able to identify potato/tomato psyllids so developing problems can be detected and treated in time. One of the most important means of identification is the psyllid sugar that is excreted by the insect and collects on leaves. Psyllid problems do not occur every season. In some areas of the state, Extension pest alerts provide warnings of psyllid outbreaks.

Homeowners not able to properly identify psyllids may wish to routinely treat susceptible plants. Protectant treatments may be needed from when plants are 6 inches tall until midsummer. Well-established plants with abundant foliage usually can tolerate late season infestations with little yield loss.

Among insecticides available to homeowners, products containing permethrin or esfenvalerate are most effective when used at rates labelled for other potato/tomato insects. Alternately dusts of sulfur can provide control. Regardless, application must be thorough, covering the underside of lower leaves where the insects tend to concentrate. Insecticidal soaps (two percent concentration) may also be useful, although control is more erratic.

Some tomato varieties appear to be partially resistant to potato/tomato psyllids. Increased hairiness of the leaves is reported to make plants less favored by psyllids."""

Perhaps this is why they seem to attack certain varieties (Druzba, JBT, Purple Haze) and leave (so far) my Big Beef alone.

Raybo

I would try Neem oil. So far it has worked on all the small sucking insects for me.

Interesting, I'm sure I've seen that site (pretty sure I've read them all at this point), but I didn't recall the permethrin, and have primarily seen Spinosad recommended. I picked up some permethrin spray the week before last, so maybe I'll give that a try in conjunction with Spinosad.

They do definitely seem to prefer some to others, and some just don't exhibit the symptoms as badly as other too, I think. I have a White Rabbit in the back that's basically dead now after only finding one infested leaf, but Stupice, who I've continually found nymphs on, is still doing really well. KBX and Persimmon look to be the next two that'll fall prey to the yellows, although KBX is holding up a bit better. Black Krim, Gold Medal, Amish Paste, and several proprietary cultivars I got from Bountiful Gardens in Cupertino are holding up the best, and Sungold seems to be doing ok, though I'm seeing he beginning of some yellowing of some plants.

My determinates are the only hybrids I'm growing this year (aside from Sungold) and they seem totally unphased by the psyllids. They're basically being left alone, so maybe there's something to growing them, although I'd hate to imagine having to switch over to solely growing them to avoid the bugs. Hopefully, since they supposedly don't come around every year, next season will be better, but since I've had them 2 years in a row now, I'm not going to be overly optimistic.

Oh wait, no... I picked up pyrethrin, not permethrin... names are too similar. I was just reading up on pyrethrin, and it sounds like exceedingly nasty stuff, and it's very toxic to cats. I guess I'll stick with the spinosad, even though it doesn't seem to be doing much, since I don't want to take any chances with accidental contact with my kitty.

Let me know how it goes with the spray though. I'm very interested in how well it works, or doesn't.

Pyrethrin is not toxic to mammals. Permethrin probably is.

Permethrin isn't supposed to be terribly toxic to most mammals, but it is to cats. (According to the almighty Wikipedia, lol) they put it in flea and tick treatments for dogs, but cats often die when they come into contact with dogs that have been treated. So even though my cat lives indoors, and would only possibly come into contact with it via the clothing I would wear to spray and then take off immediately and wash, I don't want to take any chances.

Why escalate to the nasty stuff right away? Since they say insecticidal soaps are effective why not use that? It's less poison than many things you use every day such as bath soap.

Normally, I'd share that sentiment, however when it comes to tomato psyllids, pretty much nothing is all that effective in taking them out. Insecticidal soap is probably the least effective of anything they've mentioned that may or may not be helpful. If I wasn't concerned about the safety of my kitty, I'd bring out the big guns too. I am not a proponent of killing everything in sight in order to take out an aphid or two, but I'm also not a proponent of spending half a year growing something only to have it die at the beginning of the season.

hoodat,

I don't mean to sound too sardonic, be here are a couple of "visual aids" to consider.

Bloody Butcher on the left, Early Girl on the right:

{{gwi:89365}}

Goose Creek left, Brandywine Sudduth right:

{{gwi:89366}}

After working hard all Spring to get a Summertime crop, I feel I don't have too many options left. So this is what I am now applying to the remaining somewhat healthy plants:

{{gwi:89367}}

Suffice to say, come next May when the plants are knee-high, I will start my Fungal and Insect treatments in earnest.

Raybo

No comment on the neem huh? Oh well it's your body and your crop. Neem(Greenlight brand) does suffocate aphids and other soft bodied pests IME. I've watched aphids turn brown within a couple hours of spraying and they were all black and dead the next day.

taz,

We're trying to kill Psyllids, which are a whole different class of insect. Neem works great on Aphids and I've used it successfully. These new bugs however, seem to laugh at Neem and even Sevin.

Not happy about ratcheting it up a notch, and am careful to not spray directly on tomatoes, and will not eat any from the plants I've sprayed for at least two weeks. But not too many options left this Season. Next year, more "prevention" not "reaction", as is called for this year, sadly.

Raybo

I just got back in from my daily inspection routine, and cleared out a bunch of foliage that either had eggs or nymphs on them, and took out as much of the yellowed leaves as I could on the ones that are already infected. I also ended up killing at least 15 adult psyllids. If their population is high enough that I can kill that many without even looking for them, my tomato future is looking quite dismal. My poor KBX is looking so bad, just in the last day, and the tomatoes aren't even close to being ripe yet.

It's things like this that make me completely want to throw in the towel. I have 44 plants, and it looks like I'll be lucky if half of them live long enough to produce fruit, and of those, the fruit quality may be impacted because even if they're not exhibiting symptoms, they've likely all been infected by the psyllids. My entire family thought I was insane to plant so many tomatoes this year (double what I grew last year), and they've all been joking that I'll have more than I know what to do with, but I've been telling them all along "Just you wait... I have bugs... it's only going to get worse." Now they're beginning to see what I've been talking about. Sigh. I wish there were a better solution to killing these guys off.

I kid you not, every other day, when I'm looking out at the tomatoes I have in containers and thinking about watering them, I contemplate just letting them all die. Gardening is one of the most frustrating hobbies I've ever picked up. It's rewarding too, which is why I haven't committed tomato-cide, but argh.

Next Season, you may want to be more selective in picking varieties to grow. For example, Big Beef seems to be immune from the Psyllids (maybe there is something about this variety they don't like?) in my garden this year.

I haven't seen any "sugar" on these two B.B. plants at all. Leaves looking great, etc. Even with some visible "sugar" on Druzba, JD C-Tex, and most of my Goose Creek, the plants are still mainly green from bottom to top.

While I am sensitive to the caution made by Taz, my thought is to experiment on a few plants that I have duplicates of with the Permethrin, which I may not eat any fruit from the rest of the Season, and to experiment along with Sevin to determine what works, and what doesn't work. The thought being next Season if I am prone to Psylllids, use the Permethrin up until fruitset, then switch over to Sevin, as the fruit develop. Hopefully, this "down-shifting" in lethality when fruit is developing will be the safer route to take and will have killed off all of the Psyllids in the process. Thoughts??

Raybo

I may be wrong but I think you both are over thinking this. The adults are the only ones with wings and you could spray the majority of the juveniles off with a stout spay of just water(I could be wrong about this if they have hooks for feet) and then spray with Neem. Neem works in several different ways. It smothers soft bodied insects, screws with the minds of insects that actually ingest it and deters others from feeding all together. Do you have any research or personal experience that Neem is ineffective on these Psyllids?

There's a lot of information out there on what will and will not work on psyllids, and Neem is one that's been mentioned time and time again, however there are conflicting reports on its effectiveness. I've seen several instances where people have said it's basically ineffective, and what little it does requires it to be sprayed at too-frequent intervals, and others where people seem to think it's doing something ("Sprays containing an extract of neem oil [Greenlight Neem Concentrate] help control a variety of garden pests and may also work on tomato psyllid," according to the Ventura County Master Gardeners). I also came across an article about neem granules, but I've never seen them sold before, and they supposedly need to be put into the planting hole, so that's out at this point.

As far as the scaley nymphs go, they don't come off all that easily. They're not like aphids or whiteflies in that regard. And the eggs are even harder to get off. I've rubbed them, pinched at them, sprayed them... they do not come off. I guess I could take a magnifying glass and an expensive pair of slant-tipped tweezers to squish them all, but that would take me years to get them all.

Different methods of control work with varying degrees of success, but after doing battle with these guys last year and having them take out my entire tomato crop, I want to use whatever's going to make them die the fastest, provided it doesn't also make my household pets die. I'm not overthinking anything, really. I'm going on what I've read from various sources, and that's all I can do, since it seems that there are no experts on tomato psyllids roaming around doling out advice on what's guaranteed to kill them all off. Even the commercial growers haven't figured out the best way to stop their crop loss with all of the crazy insecticides they have access to, last I read, and I'd imagine if anyone was going to try everything under the sun and come up with a solution, it'd be those with money to lose, so I'm doing the best I can with what I have.

Oh and Ray, as far as the Sevin goes, I've come across several recommendations against it. It kills off everything, including any bugs that could be beneficial in eating the psyllids. And the only thing I've read about being proactive against them is the one weird article I came across talking about the neem granules that seemed more like an advertisement than anything scientific. If they want to eat your plants, it doesn't sound like there's must to deter them, but if you find something, let me know.

rnewst

Over here on the East coast, my Goose Creeks are holding up quite well against the common foliage diseases that are taking some of my plants down. Interesting that they might also afford some protection against insect pests, too.

I know that when you are growing in containers, flowers are the last things you want to put in them when you're looking for vegetable production, but maybe you need to think about interspersing your mini-monoculture of tomatoes with other plants (doesn't HAVE to be flowers -- other non-related veggies will do) to slow down the spread of insect pests. Just a thought to add to your thinking about finding disease- or pest-tolerant varieties for next year.

Are tomato psyllids a problem only on the west coast?

I always keep some Neem handy for emergency use but you have to be very careful with it. It is a very broad spectrum insecticide and harmful to bees, parasitic wasps and other garden friends. The temptation is to take the attitude,"So long as I have some mixed I may as well hit the whole garden". If you do that I can virtually guarantee you will have an upsurge of harmful insects within a few weeks. There will be no beneficials around to hold them in check.

hoodat neem does not effect beneficials unless (maybe) you spray them directly. It doesn't even effect beneficials that eat pests that have been sprayed. Neem is the safest insecticide out there besides soap or a horticultural oil. You need to do some research!

How would you suggest spraying a plant without spraying the beneficials that are around and on that plant? I once almost lost a colony of valuable digger wasps that had been keeping my caterpillars in check when some spray got on the gound where they had their burrows. The ground was under the plants I was spraying, so I got rid of some white fly and sacrificed my friendly wasps. I also had a fast reurgence of the whitefly because I had unknowingly killed the tiny parasitic wasps that were feeding on them. that's when I learned my lesson about being careless with Neem.

As I said you need to do some research. Neem is not the best control for caterpillars. I wouldn't spray caterpillars that have been parasitised(sp) anyway. I personally don't point the sprayer toward bees, wasps or ladybugs etc. etc. You can shew them away before spraying or wait for them to leave on their own.

I seldom have to spray caterpillars with anything. My digger wasps and yellow jackets take care of that chore. That's why I was so dismayed to lose that colony of digger wasps.