You have a big landscape. What I mean is that this entire area is a composition of itself because it is so viewable in its entirety. Making outdoor rooms on one level of this terraced area seems very out of place to me.

First, from a functional standpoint, what type of activity do you see happening in what seems to be an area that is some distance away (both vertically and horizontally) from your home or any other activity? Keep in mind that passive activities are also activities as I use the term (sleeping, viewing, relaxing, reading, bird watching, ... gardening, horse shoes, fencing, kick boxing).

Secondly, why choose an area so open and isolated to create an outdoor room? An outdoor room, as I see it, is a space dedicated to enhance a certain activity or activities by creating a particular environment that best supports that activity(s) and isolates it from conflicting activities. It is always a good idea to build such an outdoor room in an area most suitable for its use by virtue of its proximity to other activities, supporting infrastructure, solar orientation, slope, ease of access, and other existing conditions that begin to lend themselves well to what you are trying to create.

Thirdly, you have the beginnings of a nice landscape composition. It is big, rather symetric, and appears to be something that is more seen from a distance or passed through than a place that is closely integrated with the home or a destination. If that is the case, it would seem that the balance of values of what you would want this area to do would lean heavily on keeping it a composition that is not visually fragmented with small theme areas. Creating outdoor rooms often will often take the form of larger plants to create the space within it. It is a space that is made to create something inside of it rather than something that is viewed as part of a bigger landscape. When the entire composition is viewed, which I would judge from your photos will be the majority of the time, those types of plantings may work against the structure of the landscape that you have so far created.

I think that the "build it and they will come" approach can often fall short and trying to make too many things happen in one area is likely to create so many conflicts that none of them can reach its potential.

I tend to agree with laag that an "outdoor room" for no reason is not what your site is crying out for. I would be more inclined to sit up near the house and look down on this area as something to open rather than closed up. It looks like an ideal spot for a pond, winding paths down the slope with some nice trees to walk among.

I've enclosed another pic to give a sense of the terraced area in relation to the house. The structure in the other picture is actually the garage.

We have started with a clean slate. Unfortunately it is very open, However, over time I hope to create a sense of enclosure with the landscaping. I already have several garden rooms: a potager area, a future cottage garden area near the garage "cottage" (currently being used as a play area for our son), the top terrace just outside the back door -"the lawn", I plan on an allee garden, and finally a long narrow walk planned for the area across the back fence. I hope to plant more trees to give a ceiling to the gardens, but all of that will take time to grow. Fortunately, this is our "forever" house, so I do have time on my side.

I am an admitted anglophile, I love the look of English estate gardens and would like to create a Southern version of that. I enjoy the landscaping P Allen Smith has done around his home. I realize that the setting is very different- a neighborhood vs. countryside, but I still hope to acheive that sort of garden.

My goal is to create several smaller areas around the house to make the garden feel more cozy and human scaled. I also hope to become less formal as I move away from the house and into the surrounding pasture.

All that said, perhaps I should abandoned my initial idea and try the "landscape style" also popular in England.

Thoughts??

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You have created an interesting space to plant. Two aspects must be considered. The view from the top and the view looking into it from below. I would concentrate on planning it as one unit with constant seasonal color which can be accomplished with tree and shrub choices. Question...are you considering planting any medium sized trees in the terraced area? Without shade it would be difficult to create a southern style garden.

We moved into a property that had more land - 5.5 acres. Some of it treed. I have always wanted garden rooms and struggled for a long time how to make these rooms in a more open landscape. I love plants and admit to being a collector.

Over time I decided that there are a lot of small lots that lend themselves well to garden rooms. Few lots have a grand view. The view is want will make this garden special and different from other gardens.

Make use of what you have and what the land offers you. I just do not see garden rooms.

To provide better advice on what to do with the land, we really need to understand your desires and requirements. You mention shrubs - do you want to collect and grow shrubs? Or is it just something to plant?

I try to do two things.

#1 - clearly understand how I want to use the space other than for growing plants. Then meet that need first.

#2 - How will lit look from all angles - inside and outside of the house.

If you can't clearly define these - don't do anything until you can.

Many of you have asked what I plan to do in the space. That is a great question. I suppose I don't have a good answer, I just feel that I need to "landscape" and not have a bare patch of land. I already have an area for vegetables, flowers and play. I envision this area as a transition, going from the more formal "lawn" and into the meadow. I do enjoy bird watching and thought a variety of fruiting shrubs and trees might be nice. I agree that the entire area should look cohesive when viewed from the top or bottom, but I hope that within those areas I can create little niches for a quiet reflective moment or a good hiding spot for a game of hide and seek. Eventually there will be a wide, straight path that leads from the back porch, down the stone steps, through the boulder wall and out the double gate. All this is aligned with the back of our house. I think this will provide a nice axis that connects the three terraces and the house. I do hope to plant some large trees (oaks, hickory and poplar) to provide some shade and a ceiling to the space. I would like to preserve the view, but "frame it"

Laag- I guess I got one thing right by having the pond! I've enclosed additional pics of the view from the top looking down and the bottom looking up.

Thanks for all of your comments.

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This is a difficult scene to imagine, is there any chance that you can fire up the helicopter and take a birds eye shot? I do get on odd feeling about the white picket fence what about anyone else? It seems to slice up the area, for instance, that last picture would be vastly improved without it.

Ha ha, yes I can get the 'copter up to get some better shots. ;-)

It has been a dificult site to work with. We chose the house, which didn't exactly fit the site, but we made it happen anyway. The house is on a slope, and because I didn't want the' house on stilts' look from the back, I decided to terrace the back. The very back fence was supposed to be black chain link to help it recede, but the SO wanted the board fence (because chain link is so low class...) so that's what we've got. (we do need the fence for dogs and kids and I doubt I will be allowed to change that aspect of the landscape) I agree that it totally breaks up the view to the pond. I am hoping to soften the fencing all around the yard with vines and shrubs. I realize that it looks really glaring at this point, but it is not my ultimate vision.

The area I am focusing on is the terrace in the back of the main house. It consisits of the top terrace which is a lawn surrounded by hedges, the middle terrace which is currently just mulch and the lowest narrow terrace which is a strip of grass. There are additional terraces behind the garage, but I already have those designed as a cottage garden and a potager, so they really don't fit into the picture.

We just moved in 2 yrs ago. I have tried to undertake the landscape in a logical manner, completing the grading and hardscape first, then onto the larger trees, hedges and shrubs, and finally detail planting. We do have a master plan done by a garden designer, but he didn't really specify what to put on that middle terrace.

I'll post shots of the helipad later when I get ready to landscape that.

Please keep your thought coming, I'm really stumped by this one.

I also find the fence a distraction -- especially since there are at least two different styles of white fencing that join in a contiguous line. The bold lines of the classic, horizontal white board fence are usually reserved for definitive perimeters. This one just seems to jut and jag around willy-nilly in areas for no apparent reason.

Particularly if you have only lived in the country for two years, I believe the size of this "landscaping project" is overwhelming for only one or two people on what sounds like a weekend basis. I think the site has potential but you seem to be attempting far too much and doing nothing well. Keep this up and you will begin to dread and hate your landscape. We are all only human. Get some serious help if you can afford it or think about scaling back.

Another thing: Delevoping an axis by incorporating "a winding walk" probably will not work too well.

IronBelly

The fence does not freak me out. It looks like it fits its context while I am assuming a rural area and horses in the region. To some degree, I think it is supportive in that the OP is not looking to naturalize the garden, but to develop it more ornamentally. It gets rid of the "no man's land" between the natural and developed with some efficiency, practicality, and fitting with the context.

The thing that I am concerned about is that the rest of the big picture is going to be a sample board. Some people talk about plant collectors who want every kind of plant to the point where composition has nothing to do with their garden. I'm concerned that this is a broader view, so to speak, of collecting garden styles as if they were collected plants and the landscape as a whole is the collection garden.

I don't have any problem with someone using several garden styles when they have a sense of place that belongs to that particular garden. Sometimes that is a back yard differing from the front, or a space created by a hedge or of a clearing in the woods.

It is possible to build separation and/or transition through a big space, but that will take big trees and shrubs and lots of time on this particular stage. I would suggest that if that is where you want to go, why not set up the transitions in what is a contiguous landscape now with the knowledge that you can develop those spaces as outdoor rooms once they form? ... sort of like not moving your furniture into the room until the walls are built.

The garden "room" concept is a paradigm for how to think about a garden space. But just like a house-room the floor-space to ceiling height proptionality is key to how people feel comfortable being in a garden space. Most people would feel uncomfortable sleeping in a bed in the middle of a basketball arena.
The sweeping vistas presentend in your photos do not show any celing height nor walls in the field of view, so "garden rooms" become garden arenas. Maybe if you re-phrased your question in how do I design my estate garden, responses would be different.

I'm going to rather strongly disagree with you on this one, Laag. Although you are absolutely correct that the white horizontal fencing implies horses; we have the visual incongruity of, confusingly, nothing to do with horses. The horizontal-style fencing's angularity works well in a rectangular usage; not particularly well in free-form. To add to the fencing visual woes, the "horse fence" directly abuts vertical picket fencing in the middle of a straight run for no apparent reason. WhatÂs up with that?

The white fence makes a bold statement  one which even you picked up on  horses. However, even by the OP's own admission, the fencing, forced upon her by another's wishes, does not fall within the bounds of her concept. I agree that her first choice of fencing was better.

Does this property hold potential? Yes.
Is this project going in too many directions? Yes.
Is this project too big for someone lacking experience, a crew and equipment? Also, yes.

IronBelly

Wow dogridge, what a nifty place. Some see things like this as a problem, I see it as an opportunity. I live in an area where I can't grow things that you can, but I always liked certain temperate flowering trees and shrubs.

I see a big, fan-shaped planting of things like dogwoods, flowering cherries, lilacs, azaleas, kalmias, pieris...maybe even some japanese maples. The house is high enough so you can enjoy just about anything from that height. For some reason, the pics make it look bigger than 40 x 15 though.

Maybe the only general suggestion is to have trees & taller shrubs to the sides and/or further down. Because of the fan shape, make it somewhat balanced but not really formal. That way you can still have your meandering walk but still kind of a balanced look.

By the way, I have no problem with the white fence. It does add a 'horsey' look. Where are the foxhounds?

-Ron-

Our 'client' has clearly stated her wants and her confusion as to how to landscape the area to the rear of the house. It appears that other garden areas demand care. This one is to receive minimal care yet be a front and center design to the house and view.

Let's start down along the fence line where a pathway will be installed in the future. Here I would plant the thornless, evergreen, disease free Lady Banks rose (both white and yellow blooming types) every 15' to be trained up and over the fence splaying outward into the pasture. In several years as they gain some maturity I would plant at the shady base of each rose a Type One Clematis vine (which never needs pruning) to climb through the roses. This planting will help to make the transition from formal to informal. It will be an impressive display and the arching forward manner of rose growth emphasizes looking outward toward the pond.

I would plant the terrace to grass as it is easy to maintain. Then I would cut several beds of shubs on the sides, leaving the center open. No tall trees in this area. Minimal planting that makes a real statement of fragrance, color and interesting winter branching. Standing at the house looking down:
1. On the right side of the terrace a grouping of three Chionanthus retusa. As they mature their growth habit will provide a protected area for seating.
2. A bit to the left another grouping of 3 Wintersweet (Chionanthus praecox).
3. Along the intended stairway from top to bottom work a curving bed with lower shrubs such as Edgeworthia chrysantha, flowering quince (Chaenomeles speciosa var.) and blueberries for fall color.

Work in groupings. Do not do spotty plantings. Just a few quick ideas that might inspire you.

Hi Dogridge, Just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one with this dilemma! I went from half acre to 6.6 acres of farmland and 60 acres of timber and at least I DO have horses. The immense scale just makes it frustrating to figure out how to afford the size of plants I need. Are you feeling that too?

I see that you did what I did, hire someone to help me define the bones and then I went against all advise and made a list of plants I truly loved. I am slowly acquiring all the lilacs know to planthood, all the clematis I can find and peonies, peonies, peonies. What plants really capture your interest and make a collection. I chose soft pastel shades in the blue family and plant at least three plants of the same variety so it doesn't look like I threw it out there all by itself. When I plant, I would rather plant grand scale of only five varieties than many varieties hodgepodged like a crazy quilt. I will wait and buy the largest, healthiest specimen I can find. One thing I have had to learn is patience since unless you have all the disposable income in the world, these thing will take time to become the huge gardens we all drivel over. Lastly, I looked at my hardscape (barns\tin shed\greenhouse) to help me define my areas. When I see your VERY NICE arena ;), I can see a little playhouse for either you or your children, perhaps a tongue in cheek "racetrack" for them to run around in (lined in shaving), drifting sweeps of grasses (there are so many fun ones now), SUNFLOWERS - at least three rows of them! Have you seen "Claret", it's the gorgeous shade of red and Moulin Rouge - yummy! and don't forget native plantings. I'm crazy and have been know to plant 3 orders of "The Works" daffodils. My idol is Tasha Tudor :). You are so LUCKY to be in your zone! I converted an acre of my land to protect pheasants and little grouse. See if you are in a watershed area, your local extension office can help you contact people who will provide seed and trees for free. Like one person said in here, this is an amazing spot and your house is beautiful. Maybe, keep the English rose sheltered nearer to that darling house and use native grasses, plantings, perennials and a few trees to transition naturally to your pond?

Anyway, all my friends drool when they see all that I have planned, I'll be busy for at least 60 years ;). Aren't we the lucky ones????

Mindy

Hi Mindy- It sounds like we have a lot in common- Tasha Tudor is my idol too- I love her picture book on her gardens. I am totally envious that you can grow lilacs and peonies. We can't grow lilacs at all and only a few of the early blooming peonies. Making a list of favorite plants is a great place to start and I love your idea of the sunflowers. i will have to try that this summer.

I totally agree that finding large plants in my budget has been hard. I have resigned myself to buying smaller specimens and waiting. It is funny to see these dinky little shrubs planted 10 ft apart, but I know one day they will be a wall of green. I feel lucky t hat I have been able to do so much grading and retaining wall building in just the last 2 years. In addition we have awful soil, so I have brought in truckloads of good compost blend. By the way, I have been using horse manure mixed with shavings to build my soil. I just bring it straight from the stalls, dump it in a future planting area, rake to about 4-6 inches and 6 mos later till it in. It is a great soil builder.
I'd love to see some pictures of your place. Please post if you can.

dogridge

Hi Dogridge, we have a remarkably similar site. Big house on a small rise, sloping down to a woods and pond. ( Only our pond is more off to the right.) I also have a hard time photographing it to show proper perspective. Like Mindy, five years ago I went from a quarter acre suburb lot to 40 acres (and had two kids in the process!)

I thought nandina had a great idea for the fence with Lady Banks rose and clematis. Have you considered painting the fence black? Right now it jumps out of the landscape, painting it black would really tone that down and make a great backdrop for plants.

I am unclear, do you have a grassy area off your patio in addition to the grassy terrace or is it the same area?

Since this area is so close to the house and has the potential to obstruct your view of the pond, I would try to keep the planting low and simple. Not fussy as in lots of paths and ornamentation, and only one or two small trees.

At our woodsline, I didn't like the "wall" effect of having very tall trees abruptly erupt from the grass. A more natural effect is to have it rise up, starting with small shrubs, large shrubs, small trees. I planted lots of flame willow for their wonderful winter bark, holly for an evergreen note, dogwoods and redbuds for beautiful spring bloom and fall foliage. Your plant selections may differ for your warmer climate, but use the idea of multi-season interest when making selections.

For Mindy, I planted these lilacs from 1 gallon pots when I was pregnant with my daughter, and here she is at 3 years old.
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Also have the peonies
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I'm also smitten with clematis (15 different kinds) but they aren't large enough to photograph well. I buy small and wait.

Perhaps a different thread (different forum?) is in order. . . .