misss r, i don't think you're being a snob at all. i've gone to clients' homes and seen trees planted 4 feet from the foundation, ginormous shrubs totally covering windows, caladiums planted in the sun, 1/2" of mulch applied over really crappy fill dirt...and these are done by landscapers and "designers", not the homeowner. i try not to talk badly of another professional (although that's a generously applied term here) so i usually stick to the issue, "yes, the problem is that the caladiums are burning up; they need shade", "yes, you have a foundation problem because the tree roots are growing into it".

funny, in five years, i've never had anyone ask for credentials, proof of insurance or referrals! 100% of my business is word of mouth, so i guess the new client trusts the old one! go figure; if i'm spending thousands on something, i'm sure gonna get some evidence that the person i'm paying knows what the hay they're doing.

Jenny

My company performs environmental remediation, and is recently moving towards commercial vertical construction. Being the resourceful (nosey)person I am, I reviewed a landscapers bid and plant list left by the fax machine for landscaping a shopping center. Other than the price that was probably the only real review this plan got.

The running joke in our sizzling real estate market was that all it took to be a "builder" was a new pick-up and a Golden Retriever/Labrador Retriever. But when improperly installed flashing failed and the roof or windows leaked/rotted they were nowhere to be found... unless you tracked them down at the Orange place in aisle 5.

I don't think your's was a snotty post. I think you're right. But I think home owners too often jump at the cheapest quote because they want to see something improved visually, without understanding the importance of the groundwork. As with anything, the "devil is in the details", and it's attention to details that costs money.

You have to have quality materials and quality installation to derive maximum, longterm benefit from anything you "hire out". Sadly, too many people fail to consider the ramifications of shoddy workmanship. It will always cost more to rip it out and start over again. A fool and his money are indeed soon parted.

Unfortunately, it is often very difficult to find people who do good work. Even people who come highly recommended by word of mouth aren't necessarily any good if the recommenders don't know what they are looking at.

I haven't found that to be true at all, Mad..

Maybe it's blind luck, or maybe I have a more exacting eye than many, but when a particular name surfaces repeatedly in conversation with wholly unrelated people my ears "prick up". We work "in the trades" and hear all sorts of talk. And we make mental note of it.

We live in a relatively small town. The news that travels fastest is the bad news. If you keep your mouth shut and your ears open you can learn a lot.

But that's not always the most efficacious way to sniff out the "winners" and the "losers" when you're building a home from "away". I have great sympathy for those who've been "burned" by the contractor with the new truck and the year old Golden...

Mental Note To Self: Only hire tradesmen with old trucks and old dogs.

Hire the ones with well-behaved mongrels and a predictably battered truck.

;)

I've got the battered truck, and i guess i could bring my old Basset, Harley, with me. that old stinky hound would class up any joint.

speaking of word of mouth, this is a hoot! my mother-in-law invited me to a knitting class at this yarn store today and here i am sitting around in a group of about 8 women, knitting, and my MIL tells one of them that i'm a landscaper. she asked for my business card, and when i gave it to her, she said "Oh I know who you are! You did my friend Sandi's yard last year! It is so beautiful!" and 5 more hands came out for cards!

Yesssssssssss!!!

People with good credentials still make problems. One thing that can happen is that the person you talk to beforehand isn't the one that comes back later to do the work, whether it is kitchen cabinets or a perennial border. About all you can do is compare notes with others. This may still exclude someone who is a genius but doesn't work every neighborhood in town, or have all the formal qualifications, of course.

I had my bathroom spiffed up by an independent whose approach I knew from a kitchen remodel I saw him do for friends I visit frequently. Works by himself, no advertizing I'm aware of other than word of mouth. Probably has no official prescence, other than with state and IRS etc. Got a great job done for a fair price, in fact the fully credentialed company who looked at the work prior to him wanted to rip the whole thing out and start over for many times the amount.

Expertise and legitimacy separate from public presence.

We should subtract more points if the Golden is wearing a bandanna, right? ;)

I have the battered truck, too, but no dog. I do have a three-year-old Bourbon Red turkey named LoverBoy, and while he would not keep a bandanna on for more than a few seconds before trying to eat it, I think I could get him to sit on one of the jump seats in the back of the cab.

"You did my friend Sandi's yard last year! It is so beautiful!"

That is one of the big problems. This is not directed at Jenny who is probably doing a great job.

Just because one person 'thinks' it was beautiful does not mean the job was well done. Unless they have some experieince in design or have had great experieince in hiring designers, they are poor references.

Most people seem to accept a average job in part because they do not know better. The guy painted the house and it looks good. They don't know he used the wrong paint.

We just had a sun room added. Got great references - one for a recent job, one for a 5 year old job. The work is well done, but the project management sucks big time. A project that was to be done in May, did not start until mid June and is still not finished. So much for references.

I think the best defence you have is to learn as much as you can yourself, and then 'think' about the solution they are providing.

Yes: The better you can evaluate what is proposed by the prospective service provider representative (salesperson, designer or installer, in the case of small operator all three in one) the more likely you will pick the right one for you. I mostly got what I thought I was going to get because I dealt with a small operator, whose work and personality I was already acquainted with.

In the absence of a degree program defining the field, or some sort of official or semi-official certification, the only defense customers (and good qualified providers) have against fly-by-nights is careful evaluation of references and checks with state agencies (i.e. the consumer protection division of the state attorney general's office).

I tried a snappy blue bandana on Bessie the Labrador, but she doesn't believe in fashion accoutrements beyond her collar.

mostly I think people get what they deserve. If they don't grasp that designers have to have technical knowledge in grading, drainage, soils, plant requirements... on top of some degree of artistic ability, they get a non functional disaster that serves no purpose. It has to do with people not recognizing the profession as anything more than "he/she planted the columnar thing at the corner (cause that's what you're supposed to do)" LOL screw'em! raise your rates and make sure those type of people will avoid you.

It is a diverse field both in terms of what the clients want done and in what services are offered.

It is further diverse by the balance between client expectations vs. who they hire and what they'll pay.

Again, it is further diverse by the varying range of skill sets that any one designer has vs. what he is being asked to do. Someone who was great at addressing a neighbor's needs may not be so able to address the new client's needs.

Anyone is well qualified for some segment of the field. The problems occur when either a service provider takes a job that is over his head, or when a client tries to get, or expects to get, more out of a service provider than he is capble of.

I wonder what can be discerned about a person or the work they do from the car they drive or the dog they own? I had a meeting booked with the guy who does some fence work for me, I was standing alongside my truck with the dog inside (labrador cross) waiting. A shiny sky blue Ford Mustang GT pulled into view parked behind me and out stepped the fence guy, I thought the clients eyes would pop out of his head. What was the client thinking "wow this guy must be good" or "wow this guy must be expensive" or perhaps he looked at my dog in the truck and thought "wow what a nice dog".

Wow, what arrogance from some that have posted on this thread. It appears that you designers are a little more elevated than the rest of us commoners based on the self-aggrandizing rants posted above.

OK, reality check. Perhaps you might step outside your high quality, landscaped world. As a member of the "common homeowner with landscaping needs" (i.e., the rest of us), I am willing to defend the many unfortunate owners who spend thousands of dollars on bad landscaping (notice I said "many", not "all"). The bottom line is that if a person is not a professional landscape designer or even a gardening hobbyist, the process of selecting a person to design your landscape, much less knowing what kind of design you want is extremely complex. It should not be a surprise at all to be called in for remedial landscaping. Even a layperson that researches garden designs and then designers can easily get blindsided because it is not our profession.

I hope you guys feel just as confident in your own intelligence in a room full of astronauts or computer scientists or whatever it is that you're not.

TXAGGIE, you might be wasting your breath on this crowd.
My wife and I did a couple of little landscaping jobs and I posted trying to get a little "constructive" feed back, and all I got was condemation for lowering the standards of the "Professional Landscape Design" field.
I really didn't know that we were that powerful to bring the whole thing down.
All that really mattered was that our 2 clients, who were little old ladies that had a hard time doing gardening on their own anymore, were and are very happy with the results.

If you detected arrogance in posts that say pretty much the same as you are saying aggie perhaps you should read them again. It is problematic from both sides and if you read laag's post above I don't think it is arrogant. His post pretty much covers notsohappycthulhu complaint too. Imagine a room full of astronauts and the guys who make the rockets they fly in "That one didn't work too well Bert" says Fred the rocket scientist, "Luckily there were only monkeys up there, eh Fred?" said Bert, another rocket scientist. "So, what are you going to do before you send us up there?" asks Arnold the astronaut. "Use up all the monkeys, eh Bert." Fred said. Some people in the design business want to improve the quality of the service the same as a rocket scientist so that there is less hit and miss, this is not arrogant it is conscientious. And when nicethyme says "It has to do with people not recognizing the profession as anything more than "he/she planted the columnar thing at the corner (cause that's what you're supposed to do)" LOL screw'em! raise your rates and make sure those type of people will avoid you." she is joking. Constructive criticism from ones peers is a viable way to improve but if all you are looking for is "wow what a nice dog" fuggedaboudit.

Anyone who has watched a few episodes of "Holmes on Homes" knows the various scenarios which lead up to the disastrous end result (at which point Mike swings in to save the day!). There is a wide range of people: those who did their homework, those who didn't, and any type in between.

What matters in this case is that despite anything that the homeowners did, they ended up with a badly done job. Even references, as pointed out above, do not always guarantee a good job. What may appear to be a nicely constructed addition or a beautifully sloped and graded lawn may be falling apart on the inside.

What is generally being proposed in this thread is a sort of autonomous mode of thinking for the homeowner in order to prevent such cases from happening. It doesn't matter what you know or what you don't know. It's meant to be a process of inquisitve questioning, trying to put two and two together (and hoping that the result is four). It applies to whether you're buying a car, renovating a kitchen, or re-doing a landscape. No one expects you to be an auto mechanic (or enthusiast), a carpenter or contractor, or a lisenced LA, but it would be helpful if people critically think about whatever they're getting into, especially something with such a large financial commitment.

-Audric

>It applies to whether you're buying a car, renovating a kitchen, or re-doing a landscape. No one expects you to be an auto mechanic (or enthusiast), a carpenter or contractor, or a lisenced LA, but it would be helpful if people critically think about whatever they're getting into, especially something with such a large financial commitment.Ding!

Once again, Audric, our "boy-wonder", steps in with a beautiful dose of common sense, well articulated and reasoned. Hope school is going well, sir. I know the Canadian system runs slightly different than the US's--are you looking at/applying for colleges this year? I bet the folks on the forum could write a HECKUVA "group rec" for you! Too bad we wouldn't count. Keep us posted. I want to be able to say "I 'knew' him when" when you turn out to be the next IM Pei or (more likely?) the new Olmstead.

mama mel

PS--Holmes on homes is a great "reality" show--I enjoy it as well.

Msjee i agree Audge is a going to do awesome things. I pale in comparison to him as a newbie.

But I digress. My post is for Txaggie...You demean these professionals calling them self elevated and all....yet you know them not. Im a older man changing directions these last couple years....heading into landscape design. You mark them as arrogant in attitude, yet these are the same ones that have taken time to offer me support and criticism over a long period of time now as Im heading into this field.

Home owners expect a certain return for their money, and as such these designers have to be committed and detail oriented to handle what that client wants. You should appreciate that fact aggie...as it is your money being utilized for your home. You want a hack or someone with experience? That should be a "no-brainer".