There has been lots of discussion about different things you can substitute. Try the link below for a good place to start. Good luck.

Al

Here is a link that might be useful: More info here

Perennial,
I substitute Pumice for Turface, and Quartz gravel for Granite.
I also use Perlite to increase drainage and reduce weight.

Josh

Which ingredients are you having difficulty locating? Perhaps some of us can help...

I found it tough to find everything I needed at first... but I've got it all now!

Could fine aged pine bark be substituted for vermiculite? I read past threads and AL stated that pine bark was used for water retention.

No: Vermiculite is not used in Al's mixes.

The bark does hold moisture, but the primary moisure-retaining ingredient is Turface.

Josh

I typed that wrong I meant to say vermiculite substituted for pine bark. What is the primary reason for the pine bark is it for PH?

Thanks for the fast response AL. Im trying to make a long term container mix and was thinking of using your recipe replacing the pine with vermiculite and use it for bonsai and smaller containers.

The PH is not a big issue, because I have a meter and was planning to hand water bonsai with a water/fertilizer mix around the 6.5 range.

I, myself, would not use vermiculite as a substitution for the pine bark. I think it will hold too much moisture for use in bonsai. But, of course, that's up to you.

If you can't find pine bark pieces at your local garden centers, look for it in PetSmart or any pet store that handles reptiles. Look for ReptiBark reptile bedding. It's the perfect size for use in medium mixes, and is already dust free. It's made of 100% fir bark, which is perfect.

I rarely use vermiculite for anything. It's very water-retentive and collapses in ......... ohh ..... say about 10 minutes (thanks, Dori).

I use some variation of the gritty mix for all my bonsai soils. I would also expect any significant fraction of vermiculite in any of my own soils to be a detraction from the way I intended them to perform, but YMMV.

Al

I posted this in another thread but I figure it had relevance here...

A national landscaping company called John Deere Landscapes carries both the Turface and Pine Bark Fines. The Turface is marketed by John Deere under the name of Turface All Sport. I spoke with Profile Products the manufacturer of the Turface line and they assured me that the Turface All Sport was actually the Turface MVP repackaged specifically for John Deere. John Deere Landscapes has a website you can check to find a location near you.

Here is a link that might be useful: John Deere Landscapes

I posted this in another thread but I figure it had relevance here...

A national landscaping company called John Deere Landscapes carries both the Turface and Pine Bark Fines. The Turface is marketed by John Deere under the name of Turface All Sport. I spoke with Profile Products the manufacturer of the Turface line and they assured me that the Turface All Sport was actually the Turface MVP repackaged specifically for John Deere. John Deere Landscapes has a website you can check to find a location near you.

Here is a link that might be useful: John Deere Landscapes

Are the pine bark fines the right size for the mix?? I'm looking for them in the 1/8 in. through 1/4 in. size.

There were a few pieces larger that were mixed in. I ran mine through a 1/4" mesh screen first just to separate out the few larger pieces. For anyone living in Ohio looking for pine bark fines Ohio Mulch which has multiple locations throughout the state stocks this in bags and bulk.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ohio Mulch

For me, the Reptibark reptile bedding is the perfect size fir bark pieces... and it's dust free and ready to use right out of the bag. Meijer's carries small bags in their pet section... and PetSmart carries three bag sizes. Some may say it's a bit expensive, but I like it for the convenience.

I also bought the fir bark Jodi mentioned and it looks to be about perfect. Good size and little, if any screening needed. Havent tried it yet but will this spring. When I bought a bag of it there was a deal of 2 extra quarts for free.

A day late and a doller short I am, but could I request a Al's Gritty Mix recipe in it's original/ current fomula ? ( 57 links to look through on the blue line thread provided )Ive been trying to keep up but wow some threads get so long I end up loosing the recipe.

1:1:1
bark:turface:granite

Josh

Just a gritty mix question here... can I store it, once it has been mixed, in an unventilated plastic storage tub, or will horrible things happen?

Store for eons if it's mixed dry. I always have at least 10 gallons all mixed & ready to go. (Lots of local friends use it.)

Al

I only need to make small batches at a time, but I store unused portions in a covered plastic ice cream bucket, and just add more ingredients and mix it up the next time I have a plant to re-pot or pot up.

Hmmm... then I think I am just about ready to march off to the garden center, and fill a tub with mix.

I start everything from seed, though; will small seeds fall through the mix? How do I handle that? Or should I use the 5:1:1? Or something else? God, I am so excited; I am dying to see what I can grow this year.

Scatter/arrange the seeds on top of the gritty mix and cover them lightly with the fines you'll be screening out of the Turface. Mist occasionally until the seeds germinate. Start fertilizing at the first set of true leaves.

Al

Will do. THANK YOU. :)

Can bird grit be used instead of the granite? The granular stuff you give to cockatiels in cages?

What exactly is Turface? I was imagining tufa rock powder, but now I'm thinking I'm way off base.

Turface looks like small rocks, say 1/8" to 1/4" cubes - imagine largish kitty litter.

It's like kitty litter in that it's made from clay, except it's hardened by high heat so it will not disintegrate in water; kitty litter will disintegrate.

Nat,
Here's a picture of turface.
And no, the bird grit/ cockatiel grit cannot be used. It's not big enough. The grit needs to be about 1/8", about the same size as the turface.

JoJo

{{gwi:5064}}

WARNING: OFF TOPIC ALERT

natschultz!

Grit should not be given to cockatiels, ever. It can actually be very harmful. Just make sure the birds always have a cuttlebone and a diet of pellets and veggies.

According to the Turface website, which does not seem to give any technical info about what it is made from, the MSDS states that it is made from Crystalline Silica.

I do not think it is fired clay, rather it is most likely crushed Quartz. It would be much more expensive to produce if it was fired (as clay itself uses finely ground Crystalline Silica as a major ingredient). I used to do pottery and ceramic sculpture, but the cost of fuel to run the kilns is why I no longer do ceramics.

Because the MSDS does not specify Alpha vs. Beta Quartz, just "Crystalline Silica" I'll assume it is not fired.

It is technically different than Diatomaceous Earth as well, which is Amorphous Silica.

If you are interested, here is a fantastic fact sheet about Crystalline Silica (one of the primary minerals in all rocks and soils):
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/silica/780292.pdf

BTW: My cockatiel was not harmed - he lived for 18 years! I no longer have any birds though, and unless I get chickens (to produce compost pellets and eggs), I won't be keeping any birds in cages (chickens would have a coop).

I'm pretty sure you read something too hastily. Turface is calcined (baked at high temperatures) Montmorillonite clay. I wouldn't be surprised to learn, would even expect that it might have some small fraction of silica in it, however.

Al

I have been reading this column for some time now and thought I could find the answer to these questions.
Al's gritty mix calls for gypsum and his other recipes call for lime or gypsum. What does the gypsum do in the gritty mix? Isn't gypsum used as an soil conditioner also? Can lime be used in this mix? This probably has answered some where else in the forum but have not found the answer. I have made the Al's basic mix (5:1:1) and planted some spearmint cuttings. I like the texture of the mix and the results.
Thanks
Diane

Hi, Diane - I use gypsum as a Ca source in the gritty mix. When a lower soil pH is desired, or when making the gritty mix, there is benefit in using gypsum as a Ca source in lieu of dolomite (garden lime) because the gypsum doesn't raise pH. Whenever you do chose to use gypsum instead of dolomite as your Ca source, you need a Mg source. For that, Epsom salts fills the bill very nicely.

As a general rule, I use lime in the 5:1:1 mix to raise pH and supply Ca/Mg. In the gritty mix, I use gypsum because it DOESN'T raise pH and to supply Ca (and S). Because Ca and Mg need to be present in soils in a favorable ratio, and you DO need a Mg source, when using gypsum I also use Epsom salts. Clear? .... or still fuzzy? ;o)

4 kinds of mint in the gritty mix, all pinched nice & tight:

{{gwi:43056}}

Chocolate, pineapple, spearmint, and I forget mint. They'll grow equally well in the 5:1:1 mix, too.

Al

Al, thank you for explaining this to me. I have used epsom salt last summer several times on my brugmansia. What mixture would be good to use for repotting the Brug? I was thinking of using the Gritty mix but I am not sure because now the soil is alway dry when I test with a dowel.
Would the 5:1:1 mixture be fine for carnations and houseplants? Thanks you again. Diane

Lol - because they grow so fast, I use the 5:1:1 mix for brugs & datura. There is no way I would go 2 years with these plants in the same soil. They really need root work beyond potting up every year. Those are also one of the few plants that I give a little extra Mg to - both in the ground and containers (I grow them in the ground as annuals & take cuttings every summer to winter over for next year's plants).

The 5:1:1 mix is very good for houseplants and holds up much better/longer than peat/coir/compost-based soils, but the gritty mix would still perform a little better. I always judge what soil to use by how long the plant will be in the same soil. Even though the 5:1:1 mix is much more durable than most packaged soils, I still hold pretty tight to the rule: 1 year in the same soil = 5:1:1. 2 or more years in the same soil = the gritty mix. In the end though, it's whatever you feel is the best choice for you. I'm not selling (you on) soil recipes, I'm selling the importance of aeration and durability in your soils, and showing you various ways to achieve those ends. After I've helped folks understand those points, it really doesn't matter to me what they choose to grow in, though it always pleases me to learn of people having improved their effort:reward ratio because of something I might have shared. ;o)

Take good care. I know you'll do well!

Al

Al, a few weeks ago I gave some cat-mint to a friend (potted in a gritty mix!)
So add that to the list! ;)

Also, up-Thread I mentioned that I substitute Pumice for Turface. I can see how
this statement could cause significant confusion. Let me iterate: Pumice does not
hold as much moisture as Turface, nor is it as consistent in size or internal porosity.
For this reason, I have to adjust the ratio of Pumice to Bark to Perlite to Quartz grit.

I just wanted to emphasize that it is *not* an even substitution.

If you want a consistent, high-performance mix without all of the guess-work, seek the
proper ingredients for Al's mix.

Josh

Thank you very much for the clarification and comments, Josh.

Al

Looking for a proper substitute for Gran-I-Grit as they DO NOT ship this product to Florida AT ALL! Also no luck in finding 6/14 sand in this area as the most I can find is 6/20 and it's all the way across the state of Florida which is a trip I am not planning on making for a few bags of sand. So what other substitutes? I heard pea gravel but others say it's not suitable.

pkapeckopickldpepprz, I believe pea gravel CAN be used if you absolutely cannot find anything else, but the size is a bit too large for optimal use with grit mix.

I do have a couple plants from last year growing in a mix that includes pea gravel and they are doing well. Pea gravel has many different sizes of stone but ideally you want something a bit smaller and consistent.

You might also look for silica sand, used in older swimming pool filters. A bag of that is only a few dollars and might be a good substitite for granite.

Just some ideas, hope this helps.

The grade needs to be 6/14 silica sand no? If so then as I have said I checked several sand companies and either they do not carry that coarse grade or they are so far away, or they do not have anyone close to me that buy their coarse grade sand. I also called several pool companies today and none had any sand never mind their inability to even answer if the sand they can order would be the 6/14 grade

Well if you cannot locate anything else except for pea gravel for grit mix then I guess you can use it. I have a maple tree growing in grit mix with pea gravel and it's doing well.

The pea gravel I used last year had a large variety of sizes in the same bag, from about 1/8" to 1/2", probably one reason you shouldnt use it unless you have to.

One other option might be aquarium gravel from a pet store. Sometimes they have uncoated gravel for aquariums and if the size is more consistent then that might work as well.

thanks.