I'd be willing to take on such a client if I encountered them, but most of my client's feedback is more verbal or cerebral than being provided with sketches of ideas. I guess that isn't always quite true, when I collaborate with builder/architects, there is often a first pass at a landscape plan, but the finished product is usually quite abit different in form and sometimes materials, and usually would not pin down plants except in a most general way. If you phrase your request to one of hiring a designer's time to help you tweak your initial design, or to critique it and offer suggestions to improve upon it, this may or may not require the designer to prepare plans. Certainly you can simply hire someone and not be obligated to have them do plans, so payment should't be an issue if billed as a consultation.

I've also had potential clients hire me for a consultation, give me a very detailed planting wish list, and we talked about my reaction to her choices. Hopefully it was useful to her, but I did not end up being hired to do any further work. I suspect that I hadn't gained her trust to really work with her plant list, because it contained alot of things that I didn't think would work with her site, limitations of large existing oaks with its impact on irrigating and deep shade, etc. This is someone who really did know the plants because she volunteerd at the local botanic garden, but wasn't as knowledgeable at how to combine them.

Might have been Knew Enough to be Dangerous situation, where she was offended or perplexed that you didn't think her choices were All That. Bringing in AutoCAD could have same potential, but really it boils down to compatible personalities hooking up more than what particular methods are being used to communicate. If you aren't confident in your consultant you will not like what they have to say. The flip side is the situation to look for, if the two of you hit it off it won't matter if you bring in your ideas on stone tablets.

This would not be something that I would be very intersted in. The reason why? If you look at any critique thread on this web site, you will find someone asking for input and then defending everything they have done and getting upset with those who think something should be changed. The same holds true with Bahia's client above.

The fact is, and it is human nature, that the further the client goes in making his/her own design, the more personal that design becomes. It can be fairly strong with a plant list. It gets stronger after they work with a "designer". It would be much stronger with an ongoing CAD plan.

In other words, there is a high probability of a client that will be at the point of defending what he has rather than one who will respond to the designer. It truly is a backward role in my opinion.

Typically we work from finding out your needs, wants, and desires in fairly broad sense. Then we come back with something that works in every sense except how you feel about it. The client reacts to it from that perspective and the designer revises accordingly.

To have a designer work in such a way as to react to your plan is much less productive. First, our usual goal is to listen and assess your needs, analyze the site for its opprtunities and constraints, develop a plan that blends the two in a logical and pleasing manner. That is the design process that leads up to an actual plan. That process is what makes what we do effective. That is what you will have bypassed by coming up with your plan. The expectation is that you can draw up a planting plan and someone can spend an hour or two with you to tweak it into something better than it was. That can surely happen, but you will have hobbled the designer by having him work from your plan.

I would suggest that the consultation that you will set yourself up to receive will not be worth the fee for the very reason that you open the thread with. You will have taken way the thought process and brought the project down to the level of a drafting project rather than a design project. In truth, you are not willing to pay for the thinking, but only for a redlining of your plan. The only thinking that will be left for the designer are very elementary horticulture decisions and to talk you out of major mistakes. Maybe that that is really all you want. In that case it is OK.

Speaking for myself, I would find better things to do with my time, but I would not be insulted. You having confidence in your own design does not insult me.

I agree with laag, if you want to tap into the knowledge of an experienced designer, why stifle the process by offering limitations right off the bat?

When I've worked with professional designers in the past, I've waited to hear their ideas (during a paid consultation) before offering my own. I didn't want to limit them, preferring to be open to another perspective that was completely fresh. When I did discuss my own ideas, I was pleased when they disagreed with some of them, and gave me the reasons why.

Nothing worse than hiring someone to help you, and then having them agree with everything you say. If you've already got it under control, why would you be hiring someone?

A number of my clients were of the artistic bent with rather firm ideas and a wish list they did not know how to implement. One client had designed her own home but had to use the expertise of an architect for final building plans and the necessary architect's stamp to receive building approval. In that process she learned structural integrity, etc. Then she designed many of the cloth materials for curtains/pillows/bedspreads and learned a great deal more from the mill she worked with to have them woven. She sewed everything herself after taking lessons. Not content with that she then designed and made beautiful rya rugs. Again, she consulted an expert and learned the proper methods.

Working with her and her landscape ideas was a pleasure as it was with the other clients. I much prefer collaborating with a client who has a sense of design, perspective and color...and is willing to learn.

Thank you so much for all the variations on a theme!

Good golly, you are giving me more credit than I deserve Saypoint and Laag! I need to clarify a little I think. I have Auto-CAD plans that only have the must haves on them. That simply includes: 150 year old maple, 200 year old Pecan, 2 butterfly bushes (they give a great view of the birds and butterflies from inside the house- the kids would string me up if they disappeared!) and a row of crepe myrtle that line the drive. The rest is a clean slate.

The designs show 10 acres cleared that include a barn and a pole barn plus a pool and deck in the back. The Cad plans I created were for the future plan to add on an octagonal eat-in to match the victorian style of the house, part of the reason I want the desiner to use my plans....

I think the idea of a paid consultaion would be great. I guess "I know enough to be dangerous". I think I might like a tree off the corner of the porch...Would love a weeping cherry, but the symmetrical 2 story turrets might just add to the overwhelming vertical effect of the facade. Instead, a dogwood might be a better choice, the horizontal branching will break up so many verticals. Definately see what you mean Laag and Saypoint!!

Nandina, do you know anyone in the Central Virginia area? I guess I want to learn, banter and brainstorm with someone more knowlegeble than me! I guess bottom line I do not want to be excluded from the creative process.

Heatheron40

I agree that most often, when presented with a clients version of a plan in whatever form, you are starting from a negative. I was in this position recently when a prospective client had a plan drawn up by an LA but didn't like it, he offered to send it to me to see how I might 'tweek' it. I told him that I could start again from scratch but didn't want to be influenced by someone elses ideas. I did look at the other plan later and I know that if I had worked from that and not from the source my thinking would have been "That plant won't work there, this one would", or that patio is too big rather than original thinking. A list of "must haves" is another negative starting point in my opinion as it compromises the design. I would rather start from someone's desire to have "a place to sit and watch the sunset and listen to bird song" than I want "a pergola made from larch poles covered with wisteria open at one end over a Pennsylvania blue stone patio laid in Scotch Pattern ... and so on" although this might be what we end up with.

Have you thought about how much you are willing to pay? Are you thinking $100 or $1,000.

- Brent

Brent,
I was thinking $500 (give or take- probably more give:)would be an O.K. fee for our area. We are a very rural county outside of Richmond. Of course this would only include consultation fees. I'm guessing Northern Va would probably bring closer to $1000.

Inkognito, I understand completely about being influenced, but this is a historical property and I do have to consider that when anything is changed. I can not remove such old trees, nor can I in all good conscience ignore the stlye of the house. A GOOD LA would consider that. For example, I have see tons of "This Old House" converted into "this new house" that resembles an old house from the outside or simply a wing tacked on without regard to maintaining the period look. I feel as if I am the caretaker.
Educate me, bounce ideas around, lets have a beer, you know like we used to do when we were college kids.

Heathern40

Call some likely candidates and tell them right off what you want to do. Some will be comfortable with meeting you halfway and others won't, as has been shown here.

Sorry, Heather, I do not have a VA. designer suggestion for you. However, before you put any ideas on paper may I suggest that you go on a treasure hunt. First, contact your local historical society for the history of the property. Perhaps there are pictures available. These are always helpful. The historical society may be able to steer you to the right type of designer.

Also, using a thin metal stake, start tunking around the property listening for a change of sound that might allow you to uncover old brick walkways, perhaps the old well or barn foundation. Be certain to check any slightly depressed areas.

As caretaker of the property you should decide if you wish to study the gardens at Monticello/Williamsburg and stick with heirloom plants and the formal English gardens for which your area is famous. Perhaps that is of no interest to you. But, I would urge you to do some seaching on the property because what you might uncover could influence the design.

You could try posting over on the Virginia forum for recommendations...though the traffic over there has been pretty slow since the iVillage buyout.

- Brent

You might want to also check out the Garden Restoration forum, where they also share info about historic gardens and such. Suggested reading: Michael Weishan's "The New Traditional Garden", Rudy and Joy Favretti's "For Every House a Garden", and Ann Leighton's "American Gardens of the Nineteenth Century". Also, check out Gordon Hayward's "Your House, Your Garden". While it does not deal with historic gardens, his style and common-sense approach to layout are very suitable, IMO, for a traditional garden.

If you do eventually meet with a designer you might want to say stuff about the heritage that you want to preserve early on rather than halfway down the page, Heather. Respecting an older property requires sensitivity and may not necessarily lead to a specific perfect day in 1927 when plant choices were more limited than they are today. Retaining trees that may not have been the right choice in the first place also doesn't work, we are talking about a place in time only, that time does not bring with it an 'All Correct Credential' merely because it is old.

Oh, a base plan is a totally different story than a design that needs tweaking. You are not too scary for me after all.

As for the treasure hunt, we've done that including finding Miss Ethel, our best find. At 99 years old she is our best resource. Our county did not exist as such when the farm was built and where the records were kept - of course it burned at some point....We talk to Miss E often and record all conversations to help OUR memory!

This was once a dairy farm where the barn and milk house were the priority. The house has a symmetrical Georgian layout and is large for the time, 3500 Square feet. As in the sexist thread: the floorplan resembles male parts- 2 turrets with a rectangle porch between and a rectangle going straight back...!!Funny though, like true to form farmers, the upstairs had flat plain molding and lower ceilings.

Anyway, it was a working farm without slaves so it may never have had much in the way of formal plantings but I want to be repectful. DH is ordering Saypoints reccomendations as we speak!! They sound wonderful.

I know the trees may not have been the right decisions, but the 'tree hugger' in me as the DH refers too, just can't cut something down that old unless it is diseased....plus it's 75' away from the house!

This is a learning process and I thank you for letting me 'guinea pig' you. Now I'll be more prepared!! So I call it a *base plan*-guess that does make more sense.
Here's a picture. The Georgian floor plans has Victorian details. The Big addition was done by one of the area's freed slaves around turn of the century.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:42036}}

It's always interesting to see what kind of plants old places like this still have, especially if they are old themselves.

If you were closer, Heather, I'd work with you in a heartbeat :-) Much like Nandina has expressed, a client that shows your initiative, enthusiasm and has developed some strong feelings about what she likes and what is appropriate is for me the most stimulating and creatively inspiring. It is far better and more satisfying to have more of an equal collaboration with the client in creating their garden than one that sits back and provides minimal input. I also have no problems about including must-haves or incorporating existing plantings as long as they too are appropriate and ecologically sound - I do not generally uphold the philosophy that one must go in and clear cut a property just to create "design integrity", which is just a PC way of massaging a designer's ego. It is afterall your garden and should reflect your desires and personality, not primarily those of the designer.

Well there you go. Like I said, just a matter of finding the right fit.

This house looks special enough that the right designer and your energy could make it just spectacular....go for it.

What you have there is a Queene Anne farmhouse Heather, built between 1880 and 1910 I suspect. Punch this into google to see what you come up with but also visit local museums. The plants in your picture were a later addition probably 1950's when foundation planting was the latest thing and do nothing for your beautiful house. See what I was saying earlier? The later information and the picture have put flesh on bones that now seem worth chewing on.

After calling it a "victorian" for so long one of the guys from the arcitecture department of the university corrected me, it is without a doubt, "a georgian floor plan with victorian details". As he informed me, a victorian is never symmetrical (as georgians always are) and Georgians do not usually have turrets and large windows (as victorians do) *Harumph he sneered as he fixed his ascot*

So I now call it an old farm house! It has gone through 3 major remodels- with the last- you were right on Inkognito-around 1900 from what Miss E remembers hearing.

Soon we will restore the front porch, to resemble the original correcting for poor construction practices. When we bought it the foundation beds were raised with a brick wall (guessing 50's from the type of brick used).....major problems in crawl space resulted, all the water was retained and of couse went to the lowest place *crawl space*. Brick wall gone.

Maymont, big Victorian in Richmond, is a good resouce and we go downtown to get inspiration from others too. That's how I came up with the idea of the Dogwood off the right corner. Wish Va could do lilacs justice...
Hitting nurseries for designer's and LA's number's this week!

Wish me luck,
Heather

After calling it a "victorian" for so long one of the guys from the arcitecture department of the university corrected me, it is without a doubt, "a georgian floor plan with victorian details". As he informed me, a victorian is never symmetrical (as georgians always are) and Georgians do not usually have turrets and large windows (as victorians do) *Harumph he sneered as he fixed his ascot*

So I now call it an old farm house! It has gone through 3 major remodels- with the last- you were right on Inkognito-around 1900 from what Miss E remembers hearing.

Soon we will restore the front porch, to resemble the original correcting for poor construction practices. When we bought it the foundation beds were raised with a brick wall (guessing 50's from the type of brick used).....major problems in crawl space resulted, all the water was retained and of couse went to the lowest place *crawl space*. Brick wall gone.

Maymont, big Victorian in Richmond, is a good resouce and we go downtown to get inspiration from others too. That's how I came up with the idea of the Dogwood off the right corner. Wish Va could do lilacs justice...
Hitting nurseries for designer's and LA's number's this week!

Wish me luck,
Heather

You could go to the VA Society of Landscape Designers web page. There is a list of members by general area. The designers have submitted a project for review and need to earn CEU's to maintain certification.

Of course,there are many good designers who have not joined, as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: VSLD

Awesome resourse!! That is definately a fantastic starting point Creatix, will save me a lot of leg work. I love this. Thank you again everyone! I'll post what we finally come up with.

Heatheron40