Al's 5:1:1 mix pH questions
pkapeckopickldpepprz
13 years ago
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pkapeckopickldpepprz
13 years agoRelated Discussions
Al's 5:1:1 mix when growing veggies in areas w/ alkaline water
Comments (11)I've ordered a 3 gallon fertilizer injector and I think I've calculated a formula to start with: 12 parts vinegar: 1 part foliage pro I'll set the fertilizer injector at 250:1 This should deliver almost 1 TB vinegar per gallon of water and 1/4 tsp of FP per gallon. From what I've read the vinegar should lower the ph by approximately 1. Drip irrigation will be watering/fertilizing almost every day. On the weekends, I will probably hand water as needed, especially to flush out the containers. I'm sure this will need some tweaking, but that's my starter plan Anyway, if anyone has advice for me on that, I'm all ears. However, my real question is whether it is safe to combine vinegar and FP. From reading other threads, it seems like people have done it with other fertilizers, but always diluted with water and used immediately. In my case, this injector would be sitting there with a full-on mixture of 12 parts vinegar and 1 part FP. I'm in Kansas where we are likely to hit 100 degrees during the summer. Is that going to be safe and effective or can the vinegar somehow "ruin" the fertilizer?...See MoreAl's 5.1.1 mix
Comments (17)Soluble fertilizers are synthesized, often from urea for the N source, but also from a wide variety of other chemicals that contain the essential nutrients plants get from the soil. They mix with water immediately, and plants start taking them up as soon as they are applied. The considerable advantage you realize is the control over what your plants get and when they get it. Fertilizers that supply their nutrients locked in organic molecules need to rely on soil organisms to cleave hydrocarbon chains and 'unlock' the nutrients by breaking them down into elemental forms. The problem with this is, the microorganism populations you must rely on are extremely variable in containers, being greatly affected by a number of factors, among them temperature, moisture and air volumes in the soil, pH, fertility, soil type ..... There is no way of telling if the N in the fertilizer that derives its N from feather or horn meal will give up its N today or a month from today. There is no need to fertilize every time you water when using soluble fertilizers. It's a good strategy if you have only a few plants, but not requisite. I fertilize (usually) weekly in the summer, and every time I water in the winter. Some granular fertilizers, like MG and FP, are soluble. Some granular fertilizers, like most granular lawn or garden fertilizers are 'slow-release' products because they are only marginally soluble. Most 'organic' fertilizers that get their N from organic sources are also slow-release because of the length of time it takes them to break down into elemental forms plants can assimilate. When it's all said & done, plants 'eat' salts as the building blocks they use to make their own food and keep their metabolism humming. The nutrients they take up are in the same form, whether they came from a dead fish, blood/hoof/horn meal, or from a plastic container of Miracle-Gro. They don't know and don't care where their nutrients come from, as long as they get them. Finally, I believe strongly in the adage "feed the soil not the plant ....... in my garden - but when it comes to container culture, what works best in the garden is often best left there. Container culture is much closer to hydroponics than growing in the earth, so it's not a big stretch to allow that it might take a different set of tools to achieve the best results. There is a LOT of disagreement about what is and isn't acceptable insofar as fertilizers are concerned if you wish to be considered an 'organic' grower. I don't get involved with the politics because I don't care too much about it (bigger things to worry about), and I'm much closer to being a slave to results than ideology. You could probably get recommendations from the crowd at the organic gardening forum, but it's rare that there is ever much of a consensus when it comes to fertilizing containerized plants. Maybe fish emulsion would suit the application? AL...See MorepHof Al's 5 :1:1 mix
Comments (29)Al, I have a many questions being a first year "gardener", well attempting to be at least, but I'll try to narrow them down to the most important. First, here is my situation: I am growing a couple tomatoes, tomatillos, and several pepper varieties in containers. I am using GreenAll soil booster (50-60%) and perlite as a growing medium. I put Osmocote 4 mo. release in the soil as well. I have some New Mexico "Big Jim" varieties I am growing from seeds which are developing their 3rd set of true leaves yet are behind the other plants which I bought from a nursery. Anyway the peppers and tomatillos all look great, except for one serrano, which I found aphids on. However the tomatoes look stressed. I am struggling to figure out a watering schedule. However after reading your post on soils and water movement, I think I have a better understanding of how to proceed from this point on as far as watering. The tomato plants are a little over 12" tall, and have a few flowers blooming on them. I have a small portable greenhouse which I keep the plants in at night, and sometimes during the day. Usually I move them out of the greenhouse during they day so they can get a few more hours of sunlight. When I do, the tomatoes tend to wilt, or droop during the day. However the next morning they seem to have perked back up. I think a big part of my problem is simply not understanding how to water, (I am working on it). When I was getting started the guy at the Green Thumb nursery asked how I wanted to feed them. I told him organically. I didn't know any better. So, here's what I have been doing, I have been using E.B. Stone organic fertilzer spread on the top of the soil, then kind of mix it in a little, and on tomato and tomatillo plants I then cover with a thin layer of earthworm castings. I have had the plants since April. 9th, and have now fertilized twice this way. Also, on Monday, 5-9, I sprayed the foliage with Neptunes fish and seaweed concentrate according to manufacturers recommendation. The peppers and tomatoes look good generally, the leaves on some are not as dark green as others but the leaves look flat, and I think they are all healthy. The tomatoes concerned me, so I bought a cheap pH tester and it reads between 7.5-8. Well, I wasn't sure about the meter, so I bought a chemical testing kit, and tested one of the tomato plant soils. Oh yeah, the soil in all the containers was pretty much the same. according the chemical testing kit. the pH is right around 7, however the Nitrogen, and Phosphorus are all very low. It also tested for pot ash which was very low as well, but I don't know that that is and haven't heard it mentioned in any of the threads. So, having said all that, and sorry for so much information. What are your thoughts on moving forward? I feel like I am kind of committed to the E.B Stone organic Tomato & Vegetable food, and Neptunes. Is it too late to switch to the Foliage Pro 9-3-6? Will I be ok, with what I am doing? should I be worried about the Nitrogen, and Phosphorus, and Pot Ash levels which were quite low? Is all this related to the fact that I don't know how the hell to water my plants? I read about wicking the pot. What do you recommend for using as a wick to lower the perched water table? I know one of the tomato plant pots doesn't drain as well I I would like. I drilled some additional holes, but I think using a wick would help. I addressed my question to Al, but I welcome anyones input as well, Thanks, Jon...See MoreQuestions about Al's 5-1-1 Mix
Comments (1)'Organic' means carbon-based...so, yes, pine bark is organic. I use powdered Dolomitic Lime. You sprinkle it in with the ingredients, then mix it together. The lime phase reaction takes anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks to complete, which is why it is often recommended to make your mix ahead of time. However, there is no danger in mixing and potting the same day. I've done it many, many times. In a large volume of 5-1-1, where moisture and temperature is moderated, I imagine that some innoculants might work....but I do not use any, and I only know one guy who does - and his results are far too variable to draw meaningful conclusions. Instead of a moisture meter, just stick a kabob skewer or other stick into the container to check for moisture. It's the easiest way. I germinate seeds directly in the 5-1-1, but I start most seeds in a Gritty Mix. Josh...See Morepkapeckopickldpepprz
13 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
13 years agopkapeckopickldpepprz
13 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
13 years agopkapeckopickldpepprz
13 years agoBigA3723
13 years agoedweather USDA 9a, HZ 9, Sunset 28
13 years ago
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greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a