Pros and Cons of 511/ Gritty mix and peat based potting soil
olympia_gardener
11 years ago
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TheMasterGardener1
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agogreenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoRelated Discussions
African Violets in Gritty Mix or 5:1:1
Comments (49)Hi Al/plantcrazed/et. al., I thought I should come back and share some results from my "experiment" that I started at the end of April. The controls in my little trial were almost non-existent, but I think that actually makes the results more relevant to me and my growing conditions (and hopefully others will get something from this too). Back in April I got an order of leaves of 19 varieties of AVs. 14 came as pairs of leaves, so I decided to try growing them in different media. As I described in my post in mid-May, 14 leaves went in 100% vermiculite and 19 leaves in 100% turface fines (the smaller stuff left over after sifting for other mixes). The planting tray is an old kit I had leftover from years ago that has a clear cover for germinating/propagating. I had grand plans to carefully measure watering, leaf condition, first sign of roots/new leaves, etc. (like a good experimenter would), but the same day I planted the leaves my toddler ended up in the ER, kicking off several weeks of stress and doctor's visits, not to mention usual life events and adventures when working full time and caring for a small child. My plant care regimen settled in to, basically, watering when I noticed they looked dry. After the plantlets started to appear I took the covers off the trays, but otherwise I've just watered and left them under fluorescent lights and hoped for the best. Here are my results. Vermiculite 4 have plantlets, all of which seem to be growing alright 5 are mostly-dead or all-dead 1 formed a nice-looking plantlet that subsequently died, tho the leaf is still there and has roots 4 have roots but no sign of new leaves (yet?) Turface fines all 19 leaves are still alive 16 have multi-leaf plantlets 1 has a new leaf just beginning to appear 2 are strongly rooted and some gentle investigation revealed new leaves that just haven't broken the surface yet (I had just finished watering when I took this photo, which is why the turface shows wet and dry spots. This is what my usual watering of this tray looks like) A few other observations: the leaves of the new plants in the vermiculite are larger than any in the turface the leaves of the new plants in the turface are much smaller, but there are many of them, they are a strong green colour, and have a vital appearance (my experience tells me these are stronger plants than in the vermiculite) one variety was not in very good shape when it arrived. I considered complaining to the store owner about the quality, but see above re: bigger life priorities right now. That variety didn't survive more than a few days in the vermiculite. The leaf just rotted away. In the turface, it slowly rotted up the stem towards the leaf, but then rooted from the remaining piece of leaf and now has a lovely little plant growing: What these results say to me is that, for my horrible, neglectful treatment of these leaves, the turface was a better growing medium. I'm sure Al or Kevin/ewwmayo would have the correct terms for the properties of the two media, but I would say it seemed like the vermiculite contributed to a less stable environment - it went from a soggy mess when I watered to very dry, very quickly - and the turface was much more stable and allowed these poor things to survive despite my neglect. I've read some of the very lengthy threads about the properties of the various gritty mix ingredients and it makes sense to me that a plant like an AV that doesn't like to dry out but also hates being soggy would appreciate the turface's qualities of holding water but allowing for drainage and air movement through the medium. I think from now on the turface fines will be my preferred method for starting AV leaves (and likely other similar plants like episcias or begonias). I also moved two other AVs (a standard and a mini) into a modified gritty mix (1:1:1, but perlite in place of bark). So far nothing meaningful to report, though neither plant has bloomed and the mini seems to be happier than the standard. But with my neglect of the plants lately I don't think these results are meaningful, beyond saying that AVs can actually survive in the gritty mix even with an inconsistent and sub-optimal care routine. If there's anything interesting to report as these AVs continue to grow and I pot them up (likely into a gritty mix of some sort), I'll be sure to come back with an update. I would happily accept comments/questions/criticisms of my results, but please be kind in your criticisms of my care routine. I might be bad with my plants, but this little one is thriving: Thanks everyone, Melanie...See MoreAlternates for Al's Gritty Mix and 5:1:1 Mix
Comments (9)I'm just musing here & not being snippy, but I think that the 5:1:1 mix performs significantly better than peat based soils, and remains structurally sound much longer (4-5 times longer, based on all other cultural conditions being equal). The gritty mix is even better, providing greater aeration and lasting indefinitely. I'm not saying that to promote what others refer to as 'Al's Soils', only to illustrate that soils that are highly aerated and structurally stable are much preferred to peat/coir/compost-based soils for the results oriented crowd. I'm able to say this based on the hundreds of people at GW and other sites that are using these soils and some fertilizer recommendations with a degree of success that has them saying they left soils like MG or other peat-based soils and will never look back. There is a crowd that wants to make things easier (these soils are much more forgiving and easier to grow in) and appreciates the idea that their plants are growing at closer to their genetic potential. Then, there is the group that feels that what they are using is 'good enough'. I have no quarrel with how folks establish their priorities, but what I usually hear, and what I'm hearing above is 'it's too much bother'. I never try to coax anyone to use "my" soils. I only point out the considerable benefits of higher aeration and greater durability and let others decide. I respect your decisions, but at the same time I can point to the fact that what's easier for the grower and what's better for the plant are often mutually exclusive. In this case, there is an inverse relationship between effort and results, but it's not as great as it seems. Yes, there is some effort involved in finding the ingredients and making the soil, but part of that effort is negated in the fact that healthier roots make healthier plants and healthy plants are less susceptible to insects and disease, and are more productive or prolific. Include the fact that root rot and soluble salts accumulation (especially for houseplants) is something you would have to work at to achieve, and you've got a pretty good case for abandoning the heavy soils. In the end, it always almost always distills to an individual decision. Is the perceived gain worth the perceived effort. Some answer with a resounding yes, and others are not so sure or unwilling to go through the trouble. I respect any one's decision because my part in trying to help folks ends with trying to provide the best science I can so they can make up their own minds. However, if the soils didn't work considerably better than conventional soils, I'd have been handed my head long ago. ;o) Take care. Al...See MoreIs Al's gritty mix or 5-1-1 mix really any better than other mixes?
Comments (32)@Nil13 made reference to the Whitcomb 311 mix, which is an earlier historical attempt to create a more coarse potting soil for container plants. I think it is extremely helpful to read a document written by Carl Whitcomb that explains how he came on this formula by accident. Essentially what happened is he accidentally left nine test pots under a bench and everyone forgot they were there. They had successfully nearly killed all of their test plants by watering in a normal potting soil mix and the unwatered plants started to do very well. What I have started to realize is that any plant can do well in many different soil mixes, if you are able to carefully control the watering. This explains why so many people on this forum claim gritty mix is not as good for their succulents as their (fill in some random horrible soil with lots of small particles) mix. Inevitably those people are growing their plants indoors. They have enormous experience with their plant type and they know exactly when to water the plant. So that is the case of a very skilled gardener compensating for a very bad soil. What gritty mix does for me is let me grow succulents outside in very abusive weather conditions, without the plant dying. A plant can get a week of rain and it will still drain well. During Summer, gritty mix will tolerate a bit of overwatering, although you still really need to pay attention to not overwatering. Whether you make your 511 mix with perlite/peat, or with two parts Turface, or with lava and pumice, is probably in the big picture not going to be the deciding factor in whether your plants grow well or not. Success can be add with any of those mixes because the size of the particles allows the roots to breathe and prevents capillary action of water from bring the perched water table to the top of the pot and drowning the roots. Fine-tuning how you make 511 is a question of matching the plant type to the moisture retention of the soil and to the watering habit and climate exposure. Any 511 variant is going to do better than almost any commercial potting soil because of the larger particles used in the majority of the mix....See More5:1:1 mix or Gritty mix for Ficus Lyrata
Comments (17)The cultural wants of F elastica and F lyrata are virtually the same, so what works for one will work as well for the other. If you are having trouble with one or the other in either grow medium, it is not the medium, there is something else in play. Let me know if you want help trying to put a care regimen together that almost all the plants you're likely to grow will appreciate, no matter which of the two media you choose to grow in. While the primary difference between the two mixes is, the 5:1:1 mix holds more water, some of it as perched water, both are far superior to most off-the-shelf products based on almost all fine material, usually peat or some combination of peat, compost, composted forest products, or coir. Al...See Moremeyermike_1micha
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoTheMasterGardener1
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11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoTheMasterGardener1
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tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)