I would love to hear other's responses.

Additionally, I am in indoor apt gardener. I can see it being easy to douse at each watering when outdoors, but it's hard enough to allow 10% water through in my situation (small apt, many plants)

Thought about submerging containers in a bucket with no fertilizer before allowing to drain (ebb and flood hydroponic style) but would then have to rewater with fertilizer. (the idea of no fertilizer in bucket is to help remove salts from soil)

How would one best water for saturation for indoors (when taking each plant to a bathtub isn't easy)

HM : Thanks for your 5-1-1 report. I personally have not noticed any hydrophobic issues with that mix after the initial "wetting" period. Generally I do include a significant amount of pine bark fines in my 5-1-1 mixes or in some cases add a bit of DE. Both will help retain moisture so that may be why I don't seem to have hydrophobic soil issues.

Thanks

TYG

I just noticed another thread above "drip erring action for containers" thatay have some good answers.

Just shows I need to lurk here more often. Or better yet, with all this knowledge why doesn't somebody write a book! (Not it)

Have you considered using a wetting agent?

I find then very good at fixing hydrophobicity problems.

Yes, but where do you get them?

CocoWet is the only one I see available to the common gardener, and since it's made for foliar application, I don't know how much to use as a media wetting agent.

I've not had any hydrophobia issues with 5-1-1 either, but I don't use Air Pruning or Smart Pots. I did have a few times where I did not water due to rainfall that I thought was sufficient, but apparently was not.

I find it hard to believe that properly made 5-1-1, watered daily would become hydrophobic. Could it be that the mix was not properly hydrated when it was made? or perhaps dried out in the subsequent waiting period between making and planting? Thought it recieved sufficient rainfall?

In my experiments and experience, I've found pine fines to be less prone to going into a hydrophobic state, and much easier to rehydrate than any commercially made potting soil.

I've had my mixes go hydrophobic before....during the Winter.

I tend to forget to water when the days are cold. But we just don't get much precipitation, and so I have to be attentive to water containers even during the Winter. Once a container develops dry pockets, I place the container in a drip tray, and then slowly water, repeatedly. Sometimes, I will also lightly scratch the upper inch of the mix to break that surface barrier.

As Spacemen mentions, it is important to start with a moistened mix, and then maintain that moisture thereafter. One can't simply dump a bunch of water on the container....one must water slowly and thoroughly to bring moisture and oxygen to the entire potting mass.

Josh

A squirrel knocked over one of my smaller containers the other day so I had a good chance to view the soil mix. The 5-1-1 mix seemed wet (damp actually) all the way to the bottom of the container. As you would expect, the top part of the soil was drier than the bottom. I didn't notice any very dry or hydrophobic areas in this soil but it was only a 1 gallon container.

Much of the pine bark I use in my mixes is already damp right out of the bag. The bags of bark at the retailer were stored outside and the wet spring we had soaked the bags of bark. So this season all of the bark I'm using is damp or slightly moist to begin with.

TYG

Although my fines were quite moist to start with, and I watered in each plant well as I planted (and at the time, the water absorbed), I wonder if I should saturate the fines in a container overnight first next time (something without drainage holes) to make sure the bark is moist deep inside, too.

The only plants I really had this issue with were those that had dense roots (to the point of really needing to be repotted) and were drying out daily.

HM:

I had bad hydrophobia issues with 5-1-1 myself, until I -really- made sure the mix was properly saturated when first potting. As josh says, potting up like you would with potting soil, then watering in a manner you think is thorough afterwards is not enough.

Now, I wet the mix very thoroughly as I place it in the pot. I dig around to make sure its all soaked and saturated. I also pick up the pot to make sure it drains, sometimes I need to stick something toothpickish through the screen at the bottom to get the water draining initially, when initially wetting the mix.

Once I started doing this, my hydrophobia issues mostly disappeared. I found it almost impossible to "fix" a pot of 5-1-1 where it wasn't properly saturated when first put in the pot - watering slow, drip tray, etc - didn't help me very much.

If there is some kind of wetting agent that could be added to water during irrigation to help re-wet already hydrophobic pots, that would be great to know.

rashoman:

i find it difficult to properly water indoors when using saucers under the pots as well. It's a fine line between feeling good about the amount of water and overflowing your saucers.
I carry some pots to the sink to water. Others, I carry a 5 gallon bucket with a screen over the top to where the plant is, and water the plant on top of the bucket. You can also turkey-baste out the water from your saucers if they start to get too full.

Hydrophobic condition, when you just fill the pot and plant can happen with any mix and it is not what OP has said. That initial condition should be corrected after a few times of watering. You have to take time and water it slowly, a little bit at a time.

In season hydrophobic condition can result if you neglect and let the soil get dry and then you water it in hurry. So some or most of the water will run off before really soaking the soil.

This is how I water my potted plants (either with can or shower head hose): Go one round very lightly; The second round a little more and the third round a little more. And it is then I see that water is coming out of drain holes.

Whenever I make 5-1-1 mix, I add baby shampoo to the water before pouring on the mix for them to get soaked wet before putting them in the pot. Peat moss tend to dry out and hard to rewet so that's why I use baby shampoo. You can make a baby shampoo solution and pour in the containers to make it easier for the mix to retain moisture.

Lou,

Thanks for sharing this with the group. I admit I've never heard of using baby shampoo for this type of application. Does it have to be baby shampoo or could it be something like liquid dish soap?

About how much shampoo do you use?

Thanks.

TYG

The shampoo would work as a surfactant. Never thought of that, it should work really well! The key is to use soap, not detergent. I'm not sure if it will hurt plant? Probably not. It's a good way to kill bugs too!

2 OZ for each gallon, I believe. I've seen Dawn come up (stay away from anti-bacterial type). It's just something that was discussed on lawn forum to try and improve deeper drainage into the ground because it was too dry.

I've never killed pouring the solution into the container with tree in it so I'm sure it is safe. I've heard very high amount of baby shampoo used on the lawn yet grass was not killed so it should be very safe.

"2 OZ for each gallon" ???

That sure sounds like it's way too much?

Or is that a concentrate that you add water to whenever you use it?

very interested in a safe cure for hydrophobia!

It might have been 2 oz per 5 gallon bucket but I wasn't really paying attention to the amount I put in. If it's safe for the baby, it probably is for the plants.

Another method to try is to get a large tub or container and fill it up with baby shampoo and put the containers in the tub so the mix gets completely saturated after a few minutes.