Diggingthedirt, Thank you. That same nursery also recommended white pine after I said deciduous and not too tall (!!!!!) so I started discounting their advice right away, which is why I posted here. I mean, they might as well have recommended California Redwood or whatever it's really called. I'm sure they're both great hedges - if you are looking down on them from 10,000 feet. Too bad, there used to be a great family-owned nursery around here, but they closed their doors last year, and I am not sure where else to turn now locally. Anyway, I will definitely avoid burning bush, thank you. Whoops, I just checked again and am in Zone 6b, not 5 (CT shore, Middlesex County), CT is in both zones, but I don't know why I can't ever seem to remember that. Thanks for asking about the height. I just went out there to measure the height of the existing mixed Rose of Sharon and Lilac border, and now think that 9 feet would be ideal. I would keep the existing plantings, but whoever planted them thought it would be a good idea to plant them within 2-3 inches of the fence, so they are all looking leggy and forlorn, are leaning badly, and really need to be ripped out. Such nice plants what a shame. I also took a long hard look at the the yard and think that the planting beds could be increased to 4.5 feet wide, if that makes a difference. FWIW the lawn between the garage/fence and this hedge will be a dark blend of Kentucky Bluegrass (equal parts Award, Bedazzled and Moonlight) for my toddler to play on. I generally enjoy many varieties of plants, but in this case am really just looking for a good private yard for my son to play in. I imagine that I would have to prune the hedge enough during the growing season to preclude berries, and am OK with that - I would still get the spring flowers, and can install some more colorful and varied plants on the opposite side of the yard. I hope all that makes sense. I will look into the other varieties you mentioned thank you very much for that. I won't be planting this until Spring, just trying to get it all thought out while it is on my mind so that I can decide on a plan, prepare the bed, and order the plants all in good time. Thanks again! Paul

>I'd like to eventually make deeper beds with more roses and other lovelies but for now I just want to get these started. Our soil is SAND SAND SAND. Did I tell you we have SAND for earth??? I will ammend well and it's nearly 100% sunny. Hi Sunny, I've done some more thinking about your situation and enjoying imagining doing some landscaping there... We built our house too, a very long time ago. I know you've heard this plenty of times already, but it's so true: the best time to do planning for major things is when you're building, so plan ahead now and do as much of that as you can now, while it will be cheaper than doing it as a separate job. We did do that, for the most part, but there came a time when we couldn't afford to do everything that might have been wise to get done right away. We did plan ahead, however, and saw that it would be smart to make some design changes initially based on plans for the future. If you haven't yet run out of money for last-minute inspirations, consider ordering some truckloads of screened red clay dirt now, or, as they call it around here, "screened red dirt." Manure, etc. will be excellent amendments, but it does tend to decompose and when all the organics decompose the soil will still drain too easily. Adding some clay now in planting spots would make all the plants a lot happier, even the azaleas, and especially the roses. The trucks can bring in the dirt now much more easily than they ever could later, after you've started landscaping and have plants in the way of having the delivery trucks bring the dirt back near the spots you have in mind for using the dirt. If your builder has any equipment there already that can shove dirt around, also consider having some extra dirt shoving done to create some three-dimensional spaces so that no matter how flat your yard might have started out, you have some berms and slopes to create focal points and a much more interesting yard. The best architects for houses think of interior space in three dimensions and that's true for landscape architects as well. It's *hard* to do this kind of work yourself later (Guess how I know that???) but doesn't cost any noticeable amount more to take an extra half hour on the part of the operator of the front-end loader to scoop some lower areas and pile that dirt into higher areas. Imagining now... If the front-end loader is around, here's one scheme you could try: create a path including some (brick, etc.) steps down into a sitting area surrounded by higher berms all around, so that as you look around from that lower seated garden focal point, you see a longer cascade of blooms than you could see surrounding you on flat ground. Brick steps detail: extend some brick spots laterally to sit large pots of evergreens and perennials on.) Another possible feature: use rosy berms to line portions of each side of a path, so that you feel a bit as if you're walking through a scooped-out hallway of roses, or even better, roses and evergreens. Some camellias can take full sun well and would provide some nice foliage contrast. Kanjiro and Shishigashira would both work there.) >carolinamary - I LOVE Marie Van Houtte!!! When my sister (who MADE me become addicted to OGR - lol) visited ARE in Brenham I fell in love and each adn every photo I see makes me love it more. Would the colors work if I went more neutral since it has both pinks and yellow? She could be a deciding factor in what is the main attraction there. Although it's exciting I'm a little overwhelmed by all we have to do. Thank you for the link. What a beautiful flower! The short answer is YES. Your yard is so large that you have many opportunities for developing multiple garden rooms. So you aren't constrained into an either-or kind of color-scheme choice here as if it would be your only place for roses. What a luxury! It might help some if you can come to some conclusions as to whether you prefer a single-colored bloom color scheme here or something with much more contrast in the color choices. You might like both a whole lot, and you're lucky in having that large yard with more than one spot that is appropriate for roses. If you narrow the thinking down to just this one area, though, think a bit about what your favorite kind of color scheme is.... I can easily imagine being happy with the pale yellow (that Marie Van Houtte primarily is) combined with other roses that bloom in a yellow, including a yellow so pale that they might be considered warm whites (like Lamarque), or something with that same general overall off-white feeling like Buff Beauty. The pink area on the blooms of Marie Van Houtte doesn't make a noticeable contribution to the whole feeling about the color most of the times of the year. In a one-color scheme, make sure to have variations on foliage sizes, forms, and textures, as well as variety in the bloom forms and sizes. I've been planning on a Ghislaine De Feligonde to go near some Mrs. Dudley Cross varieties, so I'm guessing that they'll look good together, and that the contrast in bloom size as well as foliage types will be nice. Belmont Yellow is a polyantha rose that is closer to white than yellow unless you are looking just at the buds, and it would easily fit into a scheme like that too. If you really end up wanting a noticeably yellow place, some Julia Child roses might be really nice too. For little dots of white: Little White Pet, or for little dots of yellow: Rise 'N' Shine. If for any reason you want a smaller version of Marie Van Houtte, Mrs. Dudley Cross would be a good choice. (Similar gorgeous blooms, and not a small rose either; just smaller and very low in thorns.) If you decided to take off on the pink edges of Marie Van Houtte, some roses that might go well: Duchesse De Brabant, Le Vesuve, Maman Cochet, Belinda's Dream, Pink Rosette, Climbing Pinkie, Renae, Annie Laurie MacDowell, Carefree Wonder, Carefree Beauty. If you get in the mood for spectacular contrast with Marie Van Houtte, Red Cascade on the arches might do the contrast job nicely in multiple respects. Other ideas for plants that aren't roses: Little Gem magnolia, and all types of Japanese maples. The crepe myrtles in either white or pink would be wonderful. The magnolia is evergreen and can become a tallish focal point too. Well, Sunny, I hope you have a really good a time imagining your yard's possibilities and planning! Best wishes, Mary

We don't share fencing in our neighborhood as we have rear entry garages, and the only area fenced is the area inside the driveway. The small strips between the driveways and the neighbors' is left unfenced (does that make sense?) Anyway, when we replaced our fence they took down the old fence and put up the new posts in one day, and did the rest the next day, so we were only exposed for 1 day. Not a big deal. If you are only doing the one side, I would think it could be done in a short time. I think I would approach the neighbor and just say "we were thinking about how badly the fence between our properties needs to be replaced - what do you think?" If they are interested in helping that gives them an opening. If they aren't, then you have to decide if you want to pay for them to have a nice fence, or do what Bev did and just put the new section just inside your property line. I would worry about trash build up between the 2 fences that might be hard to clean out. But, there is also an upside to it being only your fence. Nothing like putting in a new fence and the neighbors putting in a new bed and burying fence slats in dirt so they rot that much faster and are susceptible to termite invasion that way. Or if they have big dogs, that can take a toll on a fence too. We had to have a building permit in our town (we have fencing restrictions, height and type) and that is probably why, so you should probably check with your city. I would definitely do the metal posts, and if you can afford, cedar makes a really nice fence and lasts a bit longer than the standard wood fence. And termites don't care for cedar. As far as finding a contractor, you might check with Lowe's or Home Depot - they may offer fence installation and then you know it would be backed by reputable people. Otherwise, look at other people's fences - sometimes they have signs on them that say who installed the fence. Be sure to get 2-3 bids, and then check your choice with the BBB before you hire them. If your city requires a building permit, be sure the fence company knows that (they should) and takes the responsibility to get the permit for the work.

Vaporvac, I'm an oldie but have difficulty growing roses here. Your experiences will be of great value. I almost said that my contribution will be the roses that don't grow but then I remembered Etoile de Hollande. I planted it a few years ago and it promptly died. OK, I thought, it doesn't like it here. Then Melissa highly recommended it as a good rose that was also tough. Having faith in Melissa's opinion, I tried it this year and it has grown very well in a tough spot. I am delighted! But left wondering how many times we should replant a rose in order to know it will not grow for us. I usually max out at three if it is one I have fallen in love with. Am I being stingy? Cath