Bump. ;-)

Turface:
TMT Enterprises, Inc.
1996 Oakland Road,
San Jose, CA 95131
408-432-9040
http://www.tmtenterprises.net/contactus.html

I found them using the distributor locator on http://www.turface.com/ It's on the homepage, upper right hand

Bark Fines:
Repti-Bark from any local petco or petsmart. Still looking for a cheaper source.

Grit:
Manna Pro Poultry Grit
http://www.mannapro.com/where-to-buy/
I had to have it special ordered from a nearby An-Jan Pet and Feed Supply. It's quite overpriced, but I have searched far and wide by car, phone, and internet. I have called and visited nurseries, feed stores, hardware stores, landscaping suppliers, roofing suppliers, rockeries, and nothing. Feed has added crushed oyster shells, rockeries and landscaping suppliers only go as low as 1/4" crushed granite, with about 10% yield if you screen for 1/8" (granite. is. heavy.). Everyone else was clueless and/or laughed at me for trying to use rocks for plants...

If you are willing to screen (this is what I did for the small amount of grit I now have), you've got another option:

U-Save Rockery
589 E. Gish Road
San Jose, California 95112
408-293-8797

I'm still searching for a cheaper supply of bark fines and crushed granite. This is quite frustrating, but I'm not giving up yet.

I'm in Dallas and was able to find Manna Pro Poutry Grit (to replace the Gran-i-Grit) at the Tractor Supply Co. in both Denton and Mesquite. Go to their website and do a store locator search to find the one nearest you.

I ended up just buying Reptibark while it was on sale at a local Petsmart. Thankfully, I only have one small tree - so the price is not a big issue for me.

Instead of the Turface, I bought Napa #8822 which I was able to find at the Napa Store in Farmer's Branch.

Greetings,

Massachusetts locations for gran i grit - Ventura Grain 148 Longmeadow Road Taunton, MA (508) 824-7292, call ahead to make sure it's in stock

Turface - John Deere in stoughton, Ma (Allsport same as MVP)781-341-4746 387 Page St

If you're in the UK you will probably have had difficulties finding a supplier for pine bark that isn't 'trade only'; most of these products are a secret of the nursery trade and it's almost like they don't want the consumer to be able to buy any ;-)

Since my last post here, Avoncrop went bankrupt, but I've found a new supplier for pine bark, that will sell retail to non-trade customers. BHGS Limited: Vale Park, Evesham, Worcestershire, WR11 1GP. 01386 444 100. They sell Melcourt Propagating Bark, (pound)8 per 70 litres, it's pure pine bark in a 2-7mm size. It is sold as a component for nurseries to use in their own soil mixes and the manufacturer's product sheet says it can be used at 25% to 100% by volume in soil mixes. They also confirm it is nutrient free so can safely be used with plants like proteas that have a requirement for no Phosphorous.

If you need a supplier in the south-west, J F C Monro will deliver Propagating Bark to Cornwall and Devon, they are based in Hayle right down at the far end of Cornwall.

Orscheln stores carry poultry grit. The one in Hays, KS had 50 pound bags of Cherrystone #2 and 5 pound bags of Manna Pro poultry grit. The NAPA auto parts store in Stockton, KS had Floor-Dry #8822. I couldn't find any pine or fir bark so I just ordered a 24 qt bag of Repti-bark online from PetSmart.com. I gave up on the gypsum and am just going to use Foliage-Pro.

While searching for the bark I went to several different nurseries and they looked at me like I was looking for something illicit when I asked if they had pine or fir bark... apparently they don't like those new-fangled city plants, orchids and what-not, out here.

This is incredibly way off topic, but I must.

I've been online since the mid 80s when there were only BBS & we paid by the byte. My how things have grown and changed...

Look what the Internet has created just in this thread. Can you imagine finding these resources, sharing these experiences, and just plain getting such incredibly, freely shared advice before the Internet? People who just recently whined about hating answering machines are now emailing and posting with great flourish and enjoyment. :)

I think I speak for everyone, when I can only thank you all for your help humor.

Christine

If you have large amounts needed, Wolfinbarger in Chino will mix for you, $25 for a couple cu yards. They don't carry Turface, but trying to find out more about the "Angel Mix" they carry for baseball infields (Corona Clay is the manufacturer).

I am going to get 2 cu yards of 5-1-1 this weekend, by getting 1 scoop of "32. 0-1/4" composted fir bark" and 3 scoops of "7. Nutrient Mix with peat & perlite" which has a larger than 5-1-1 ratio of peat & perlite, hence the added fir bark above. It also has dolomitic lime and some other nutrients already in there.

http://www.ofwolfinbargerinc.com/PRICE_SHEET_SEPT_1ST_201120110902_11150896.pdf

Any suppliers in texas, preferably towards lewisville =)

Im looking to report my new peach tree, the turface is going to be my biggest battle!

Sorry, kinda N00B here =p

Let me know if you're still interested in the Turface. I won't go through the legwork unless I know you're still watching the thread. I looked at your user page & you don't have an email link set up ..... or I'd have emailed you.

Al

Does anyone know of a place I can get pine bark fines or fir bark fines in the central wisconsin area. i am about 50 miles north of Madison and willing to drive about an hour if necessary. The Milwaukee area is tooo far.
Bruce

I know this is an old thread, but I was able to find pine bark fines, labeled as "pine bark mulch" at either HD or Lowe's in Philadelphia. I'm not sure if it's a seasonal thing, but I purchased it in April.

I found a place in kalamazoo MI, that has the Gran-I-Grit, 50 lb. but it won't ship to me 150 miles away. https://store-da0a6.mybigcommerce.com/cart.php?tk=l9p3fd8o8bb99m27oa7fgrm4u5

However midlandhardware.com has 50 LB #2 3/16 in. Cherry Stone Grit and will ship to me. http://www.midlandhardware.com/179824.html

SC PA (Harrisburg)

I found all "Gritty Mix" components at AGWAY in Mechanicsburg, PA. Turface, Grani-grit, and Pine Bark Mulch (NOT nuggets or mini-nuggets) that works great for gritty. I assume any Agway will carry, or be able to readily get these products.

Also, Stauffers in Mechanicsburg, sells "Frey Bros. Soil Conditioner" which is pertially composted Pine Fines and works great in 5-1-1

Massachusetts, US

Al/Tapla's Gritty Mix hunt (in my case- specifically for 1-1-1 mix for succulents/cacti). Most useful piece of info here is the price for Turface Allsport:

Uncomposted pine/fir bark:

Going for "Reptibark" from Petco or Petsmart. ($7.99 or 8.99 for smallest size bag)

Crushed granite:

Gran-i-grit Chicken Grit #2 Grower size. Or Cherrystone Chicken Grit. Not sure yet, going to ask someone who raises chickens...

Edit 7/22 2:47pm:

Agway in Franklin, MA

Chickadee Seed & Feed in Walpole, MA (Open Monday to Sunday)

They sell Gran-i-grit #2 Grower size: 10 lb for $9.99, 5 lb for $4.99

Ferestien Feed in Foxborough, MA

They sell Manna Pro.

Tractor Supply in Taunton, MA

Turface/Napa Floor Dry/Other absorbent thing:

John Deere/BISCO in Dedham, MA sells Turface Allsport for $25.35-> 50 lb bag. (Yikes- where am I going to fit a 50 lb bag...)

Napa Floor Dry (part #8822)- $8.29 for 24 QTNapa Auto Parts Online store- key in 8822 and search

Sieve: Still working on this. Hardware store I'm hoping.

In West Los Angeles:

Pine Bark Fines -- GreenAll Micro Bark

Armstrong Garden Center
3226 Wilshire Boulevard, Santa Monica, CA

(Note that this particular location has other bark out on display and GreenAll must be asked for at the register. It's rather fine but still requires screening)

Turface

Ewing Irrigation
2241 Corinth Ave, Los Angeles, CA 90064

I'm sure this 511 mixture is excellent, but isn't there anything "almost" as good that is easier to find without having to tramp all over the countryside or spend hours online? I see succulents growing just fine while walking around my neighborhood in San Francisco and I'm sure they weren't planted in any soil as complicated as the 511. I've asked. I have also found that many succulents need to be trimmed and replanted occasionally to maintain a manageable size. Is compaction such an important issue when the plants are repotted after a while anyway? Just asking.

I don't really know what the weather is like over there in San Fran but I'm guessing succulents/cacti like it better there than in cold/wet places here in East Coast. I have to keep my succulents/cacti in containers too because I don't have a garden and, well, weather sucks here.

And succulents/cacti kept in containers can very easily become wet for too long, leading to rot...with the wrong type of mix. For example, I use a 50/50 of MG cactus/succulent soil and perlite. I made the newb mistake of not sieving the perlite, and the MG soil is peat based. It's pretty bad, becomes all compact and wet...

With this 1:1:1 Al's gritty mix of similarly sized/ largish but not too large sized crushed granite, diatomaceous earth, and bark (perhaps omitting bark, using perlite instead), the soil will be well aerated, get wet, don't stay wet for too long. At least that's what I'm hoping. For certain hardier succulents like..some echeverias, sempervivums...they're more wet tolerant. For other stuff like lithops/mesembs/ etc etc....they just die after the winter or something because the rot was developing without showing any signs at first. (so sad)

From the plant's perspective, soils that hold little or no perched water are perfect homes for a healthy root system. This is because soggy soils that support perched water are limiting due to an inadequate air supply - something akin to you jogging while breathing through a straw.

Soils hardly get easier to make than the 5:1:1 mix, but if you're not up for making a soil, you can try Fafard's 3M, 52M, or nursery mix. They are still much finer in texture than the 5:1:1 mix but can be made to work much better than media based on peat and other fine textured ingredients.

Compaction is ALWAYS an issue whenever it occurs. Most from-the-bag media compacts with the first watering and continues to become more dense and devoid of air as the soil ages. This media, contrary to what some might think, cannot be effectively amended with coarse ingredients because in order to increase aeration and reduce the ht of the PWT, there has to be a large enough volume of coarse material that the volume of fine material is insufficiuent to fill the air space between the coarse fraction of the soil. That means that soils comprised of 80% or more coarse material offer much greater opportunity for plants to realize their potential than soils with all the spaces between the large particles clogged with fine particles.

Something I wrote more than 10 yrs ago. I post it occasionally:

Pudding

Obviously, I think the grower's soil choice when
establishing a planting for the long term is the most important decision he/she
will make. There is no question that the roots are the heart of the plant, and
plant vitality is inextricably linked in a hard lock-up with root vitality. In
order to get the best from your plants, you absolutely must have happy roots.

If you start with a water-retentive medium, you cannot
improve it's aeration or drainage characteristics by adding larger
particulates. Sand, perlite, Turface, calcined DE ...... none of them will
work. To visualize why sand and perlite can't change drainage/aeration, think
of how well a pot full of BBs would drain (perlite), then think of how poorly a
pot full of pudding would drain (bagged soil). Even mixing the pudding and
perlite/BBs together 1:1 in a third pot yields a mix that retains the drainage
characteristics and PWT height of the pudding. It's only after the perlite
become the largest fraction of the mix (>75%) that drainage & PWT height
begins to improve. At that point, you're growing in perlite amended with a
little potting soil.

You cannot add coarse material to fine material and improve
drainage or the ht of the PWT. Use the same example as above & replace the
pudding with play sand or peat moss - same results. The benefit in adding
perlite to heavy soils doesn't come from the fact that they drain better. The
fine peat or pudding particles simply 'fill in' around the perlite, so drainage
& the ht of the PWT remains the same. All perlite does in heavy soils is
occupy space that would otherwise be full of water. Perlite simply reduces the
amount of water a soil is capable of holding because it is not internally
porous. IOW - all it does is take up space.

If you want to profit from a soil that offers superior
drainage and aeration, you need to build it into the soil from the start, by
ensuring that the soil is primarily comprised of particles much larger than
those in peat/compost/coir, which is why the recipes I suggest as starting
points all direct readers to START with the foremost fraction of the soil being
large particles, to ensure excellent aeration. From there, if you choose, you
can add an appropriate volume of finer particles to increase water retention.
You do not have that option with a soil that is already extremely
water-retentive right out of the bag.

I
fully understand that many are happy with the results they get when using
commercially prepared soils, and I'm not trying to get anyone to change
anything. My intent is to make sure that those who are having trouble with
issues related to soil, understand why the issues occur, that there are
options, and what they are.

Al

Hello all,

I am new to this forum but have viewed the discussions for a long time, especially Al's posts. This thread has really useful information.

Does anybody know where I can buy the gritty mix ingredients in North West Washington? I actually live in Vancouver and have had no luck around home. So I was wondering if I could find the products across the border, north of Seattle. Any help would be really appreciated!

Thanks,

Liz

It's unlikely you could find someone selling it as it's meant to be
made, but you should be able to make it yourself rather easily.

For Turface, try:

Horizon - VancouverUnited States

3112 NE 112th Ave

Vancouver, WA 98682

(360) 891-1998

http://www.horizononline.com/

Ewing IrrigationUnited States

8720 Ne 64th Ave

Vancouver, WA 98665

(360) 253-3582

http://www.ewing1.com

SiteOne Landscape Supply #137United States

14511 NE 13th Avenue

Vancouver, WA 98685

(360) 574-4201

https://www.siteone.com/

Simplot PartnersUnited States

11600 NE Marx

Portland, OR 97220

(503) 262-0475

http://www.simplot.com

Ewing IrrigationUnited States

9335 SE Knapp St

Portland, OR 97266

(503) 788-9530

http://www.ewing1.com

Ewing IrrigationUnited States

5857 NW Cornelius Pass Rd

Hillsboro, OR 97124

(503) 533-5656

http://www.ewing1.com

Screened fir bark in 1/8-1/4 should be easy to find in your neighborhood, and I'm guessing you should be able to find either Manna-Pro Poultry grit or #2 cherrystone at feed stores that cater to rural populations.

Al

Thanks Al, for your feedback. I will give these guys a try. Really appreciate your help.

Liz

I haven't found all the ingredients for the gritty mix but it might be of some help to anyone looking for grit and turface in Louisiana.

For turface $16 for a 50 pound bag

Ewing Irrigation

11638 Cloverland Ave, Baton Rouge, LA

Grit 25 pound bag for $9.00

10011 Main St, Zachary, LA 70791

That's it,, you could use reptibark if you have small pots, but since mine are quite big I just have keep looking, I'll update as soon as I can find a better price.

Just be sure your "grit" isn't ground shells.

Al

I think I might have found a source for bark in the Boston area: http://www.bostonbark.com/mulch/

Does this sound/look okay for the 5:1:1 mix?

"Dark Pine Mulch: A naturally aged Pine/Spruce bark mulch, medium dark brown in color, ground to a fine-medium texture with a pleasant evergreen scent." http://www.bostonbark.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Dark-Pine-mulch.jpg

Allison

It seems pretty heavily composted and fine, but it's impossible to tell without something to provide scale. Can you look at a bag and maybe persuade them to cut a slit so you can post a picture with a ruler or a coin for scale? 5-1-1 bark should be dust to 3/8", with most of the particles in the middle. You may have to sift out a lot of dust, but it shouldn't be bad if it's mostly particles between 1/8" and 3/8".

litterbuggy- Thanks, I'll try to get a picture!

Marie- Aha, that could be perfect. Thank you!

I appreciate the help- I'm pretty new to this, but I'm pretty sure dense and waterlogged soil was my big problem this past year.

If anyone is looking for all the components for the mix, I have them in the Northetn NJ area. I have a bag of Turface MVP one bag of chicken grit and 2 big bags of reptile bark. I even have a screen kit with 3 sizes. I was set to make a batch when I went to pick up a lime tree in Western NJ. The owner sold me their citrus mix which was basically the same. So if anyone needs all let me know. I will sell them for what I paid 75 bucks and I will throw in the screens set.

x

I am located in western North Carolina, between Asheville and Hickory.

Turface MVP can be found at Burnett Athletics in Campobello, SC. It is $10 for a fifty pound bag.

Gran-i-Grit can be found at Gragg's Farm Supply in Morganton, NC. It's only $6.50 for a fifty pound bag. I believe they also stock it at the Southern States in Asheville, but I haven't called them to verify that.

I'm still hunting for a supplier of the bark fines, but in the meantime the Petsmart in Morganton, NC stocks large bags of Reptibark for under $14.

Hope this helps!

Thanks, Megan. I'll be going through Morganton soon, may very well pick up some Gran-i-Grit. I hope to try the Gritty mix for the first time this spring.

I've used Daddy Pete's Soil Enhancer for the pine fines in my 511 mix, it's 100% aged pine fines. It's sold in many places in NC.

I had been unable to find bark fines at the landscape yards or HD/Lowes around me (north of Denver). But then I remembered that's what the soil amendment was made of when I bought and planted trees at my new house, from The Tree Farm. I found a bag that still had a little left. 2cu ft bag, I think it was about $6.50 three years ago. It's called Soil Pep, from Mountain West Products. The bag I have is almost entirely the small chips rather than what's shown in this picture though...

http://www.mountainwestbark.com/products/38-minus-composted-soil-pep/

It looks like a lot of wood pulp in the photo. Not good for container mix. Hopefully, the actually product is better than the photo seems to show.

Yeah, that website picture does look more woody than what I have, although the description and company are the same. Here's what mine looks like...

Looks like you have a very good source there Tim. THe holy grail so to speak. One of the lucky ones.

I just spent a few days trying to round up the ingredients for the gritty mix in West Los Angeles, and I wanted to share where I found everything.

Fir Bark Fines

Got these from Armstrong Garden Centers, sold as Orchid Bark. Only the small bags are on display, but you can ask for larger ones from the back. Armstrong is a chain so there's no reason to think it won't be available at any of their locations, but for the record I got it at the one located at 3226 Wilshire Boulevard, Santa Monica, CA. (This Armstrong GC was mentioned in a previous post in this same thread back in 2015, but as a source for pine bark fines. Those were no longer available).

Granite

I looked for a long time for grit, but almost everywhere I called had either small bags for really high prices (7 lbs for $9) OR it was mixed with shells and charcoal OR it was only available in the wrong size. The one feed store that had a 75 lb bag for $21 was Lomita Feed. I ended up buying a 75 lb bag of decomposed granite from Bourget Bros in Santa Monica. The pieces looked small enough, but I'll update after I screen with how it turned out.

Turface MVP

I got it at Ewing's Irrigation and Landscaping Supply. I first went to the one on Corinth Ave that was mentioned in the 2015 post, but they didn't have any. They directed me to the Ewing's at 400 S Hindry Ave, Inglewood, CA 90301, right off of Manchester Blvd, and that's where I found it (along with much better customer service).

Haven't seen this mentioned yet- Grainger carries Pro's Choice Red Infield Conditioner, which is essentially identical to Turface. I ordered 50 lbs online for $17.19 to pick up at a branch two days later. (It's listed under Oil-Dri on the site, but the bag I got was the one in the picture.) I think it's a national chain- either way, it's the only source as far as I can tell in the immediate Boston, MA area.

https://www.grainger.com/product/44Z110

I struck out on Floor Dry first, btw- I got mine at AutoZone, not Napa, but the bag looks the same and they're listed as the same product on the manufacturer's site (EP Minerals). It was entirely tiny pieces that failed the freezing test miserably. The bag says "Diatomaceous Earth, Natural," not "calcined"- I was hoping it would be okay since it doesn't explicitly say "amorphous" either.

I'm in Colorado, and I've also used Soil Pep mentioned upthread. It's a mix of 3/8" or smaller pieces of pine and fir bark - perfect for this purpose. I bought it for $6.99/bag at Paulino's in Denver. I also happened to see it today at Country Gardens in Arvada, so I suspect it's pretty commonly available.

I'm in Colorado, and I've also used Soil Pep mentioned upthread. It's a mix of 3/8" or smaller pieces of pine and fir bark - perfect for this purpose. I bought it for $6.99/bag at Paulino's in Denver. I also happened to see it today at Country Gardens in Arvada, so I suspect it's pretty commonly available.

Anyone in the CT area who knows where I can get Pine bark fines? I’m going to make the rounds of the nurseries and box stores to see if they have any. I used about 9-10 bags 2- c.f. Potting mix this year, will probably need about the same next year. It feels exciting to be so enthusiatic again about gardening after taking a hiatus of several years.

If anyone is in the Ohio area, this company has a mix that looks reasonably good, maybe too moisture retentive. Might be worth a try if you can avoid shipping costs.

https://www.amleo.com/berger-bark-growing-mix-3-cu-ft/p/BM7/

Any AGWAY stores near you? I use the Pine Bark Mulch (NOT nuggets!) in the blue bag. Go to theie website store locator and type in your Zip. Some may not carry same, but should order it for you.

There is an Agway about half an hour away. Will have to call, their websites have no product info. Thanks.

Mblan13, just picked up 4 bags at the Norwich CT Agway. What size screens would you use on this? I just ordered a set of screens from 1/8 - 1/2

SiteOne Landscape in Freehold NJ has turface. I gave Animals and Gardens Unlimited in New Egypt a call and they were able to special order me the elusive Agway Pinebark Mulch in the blue bag. I got the Gran-i-grit a while back at an Agway in south jersey but I'm sure this place in New Egypt could also get it if they dont already stock it.

The Agway in Morristown NJ has like two pallets of the blue pine bark mulch. I just got a bag of it but it is very big and is now taking up my entire car trunk. I am deciding on where I will store it soon :)

The blue bag Agway bark is awesome. I have 5+ totes of screened and mixed 5-1-1 ready to go.

I don't screen for 5-1-1, just for gritty mix. I use the 1/8" to 1/4" for gritty mix and the rest goes back into the bag for 5-1-1 and I'll sometimes lower or skip the peat if there is a lot of fines. Anything over 1/2 is used for mulching pots or gets tossedf into garden beds.

Next year I will be testing 50% Pine and 50% Miracle Grow against straight MG for my Salvia Guaraniticas. Them buggers are just water hogs! They wilted a couple times a week in 90 degree F and 12-14 hours of FULL summer sun...That can't be good for the plant!

The hummers seemed far less interested in the Salvias this year. I assume the wilting/lack of water lessened their nectar production.

I screened it with 1/2 inch sieve, anything over went in the beds. There wasn’t much over 1/2. Not much dust either. I just potted a Mandevilla to overwinter indoors, we’ll see how it does. Nothing to lose, we have some nights in the 40s later this week.

mblan13 when and why do you use the 5-1-1 versus the gritty?

I use the gritty for slow growing woody plants (japanese maples, japanese red pine, etc) and the 5-1-1 for fast growing annuals (Lantana, Cuphea, etc) and a modified 5-1-1 (for Salvia) which is 3-1-1 with the "1" pearlite replaced by Diatomaceous earth (OptiSorb from FastenAll) for increased water holding capacity.

Although this year I'm going to do a pot with 3-1-1 and one with straight Miracle Grow for the Salvia. They are on my deck in full sun, I mean dawn to dusk FULL sun! and there is a bit of a wind tunnel effect. I have to water 2x a day in 90+ weather or they will start to wilt. They are dark green and lose a lot of water perspiring, and I like to put 2 plants in a 4 gallon (ish) pot so there are a ton of blooms for the hummingbirds!