I think you could probably do a 4 year cycle, but it wold require root work every other year. I think you will see too much decline in vitality & be unable to meet your goals (for the long term) if you lengthen the cycle to 6 years.

Year 1 - saw bottom 1/3 of roots off & remove 50% of remaining soil in wedges.

Year 2 - saw bottom 1/3 of roots off & remove the older 50% of remaining soil in wedges.

Year 4 - repeat and remove soil replaced in year 1

Al

Thanks for the fast response! OK I understand gritty 1:1:1 soil will likely show vitality decline somewhere around year 3-4 and 6 is really pushing it.

However, either:
1) my statement of "no soil change out for 3 years" was misleading suggesting it was staying in nursery pot for 1st three years I own it, or

2) your suggesting a (conservative?) transfer method of existing soil into the gritty mix. (BTW I saw threads and your/JaG replies about this topic; "How much original soil in rootball do we keep for gritty mix?" esp. when one person suggested the "two differing soil textures" when taking their entire rootball w/hard soil, without removing soil wedging, and plopping it into gritty mix. Her soil dried out and became hydroponic and water flowed right off it and then through the grit.)

The citrus I purchase at the nursery are all in very loose soil (I can wash it off easily with a hose). Assuming healthy tree and roots NOT bound, I was going to bare-root it from nursery soil directly into the gritty 1:1:1 mix during mild weather dormancy. Understanding the (temporary) risk of soil shock but by spring flush they would be healthy. Unreasonable hopeful assumption?

Multiple Choice Answers

1) Keep the schedule you described above, your post was accurate as-is because it's too risky to bare root.

(no need to continue reading)

2) Bare-rooting in a good-soil situation in dormancy is a reasonable risk. Keep the below schedule (assuming adequate-ideal nutrients, environmental care, etc.)

Year 1: Bare root into large container 1:1:1, remove all fruit.
Year 2-4: Keep healthy. Limb prune for shape and aeration.
Year 5 Start (or before if plant health steadily declines or soil becomes compacted): Re-pot in same container. Replace 100% gritty mix, BOTH root prune 1/3 and limb prune 1/3.

Year 6: Keep healthy - minimal limb prune for shape/aeration.
Year 7: BOTH Root and Limb prune 1/3.
Year 8: Keep healthy - minimal limb prune for shape/aeration.
Year 9: Re-pot again and BOTH Root/Limb prune 1/3.

3) None of the above. Please explain ;-)

Thanks!

Many citrus trees are shipped bare root and that is how all of mine have arrived. They aren't intolerant of root pruning either. I kind of instinctively root pruned mine even though they didn't need it, just because there were some long roots that I couldn't fit into the container without having them wrapped around the pot.

I wouldn't be at all afraid to bare root your nursery stock to get it into a more durable mix ASAP.

You also don't need to limb prune at all unless you wish to or you see obviously bad branching like crossed branches or a goof ball growing inward or something like that. You shouldn't need to use the pruners very much above the soil line.

As far as root pruning goes, you will ideally give the plant a couple years to just grow and do it's thing and then root prune when you repot. It isn't just becoming root bound that provides the reason for pruning, but the age of the roots and their thickness.

As the roots age and thicken they primarily serve for anchorage in the pot rather than water/nutrient uptake. The younger roots are more efficient for that.

To maintain maximum vigor you want to limit the thick roots to what is required for anchorage and then have the rest of the roots be as efficient as possible at water/nutrient uptake.

Think of it like this: Your container/plant combo can only support so much root mass. Would you rather have most of that root mass be for anchoring the plant or most of it be efficient at water/nutrient uptake?

There is no harm to pulling the root ball out of the pot once per year and taking a peak. The plant won't even notice.

"OK I understand gritty 1:1:1 soil will likely show vitality decline somewhere around year 3-4 and 6 is really pushing it."

Actually, a plant grown in any soil will show a reduction in vitality as soon as it's roots get tight. This could occur after only one growing season.

If your tree is very young & the roots can be cleared that easily, then go ahead & bare root. When the tree shows some decline from roots being tight after 2-3 years, begin the program I described, which is actually centered around minimizing your effort while keeping the tree from slipping too far into decline.

I don't have enough experience with established (read root-bound) citrus to tell you if you can bare-root w/o consequences, so any advice I give tends to lean toward what I know is safe, rather than how much the tree will tolerate.

Al

Excellent advice. Thank you!

JaG: Thanks for the confirmation. Even though I already understood most of what you wrote (from personal citrus pruning exp. and reading your prior posts), it helped me clarify what to do with roots when the tree becomes fully mature and reaches my desired size.

Al (tight roots)... This could occur after only one growing season.
My situation specifically: Do you mean this IS likely/possible from a 7# nursery container into 26" container gritty mix with my assumptions above? I was expecting a "even under great conditions, it would likely take X years of growth to make use of that much soil volume" where 1 Al: so any advice I give tends to lean toward what I know is safe, rather than how much the tree will tolerate.
Perfectly understandable for this type of forum -- especially when you volunteer SO much time and read through so many posts daily. However I've seen some of your posts avoid the "here's what works for me" and answer with the technicals and let them take what it they can. I love those!

I'm still shocked those Container threads are still going after 4 years. When I saw the recent posts were answered by same folks (you) from 2005, that's when I knew GardenWeb was "home" for me. I started my marathon read session a couple weeks ago.

On a totally separate topic, you guys need a catch phrase for when people say thanks. Like Rush's "Mega Dittos" or Kramer's "Boo-Yah". (Not that I endorse either, but you get the point!)

Thanks again!
Chris

Do you mean this IS likely/possible from a 7# nursery container into 26" container gritty mix with my assumptions above? I was expecting a "even under great conditions, it would likely take X years of growth to make use of that much soil volume" where 1

Is a 7# nursery container a 7 gallon (approx) container? If so there is no way on earth it is going to get root bound in one year in a 26" container. Upthread you mentioned a half barrel or similar. Those would hold 3 cubic feet of potting mix or 22.5 gallons of soil.

Citrus roots just aren't going to grow that quickly.

Hey guys, I'm new to container citrus too. I started three plants last November, each in ten gallons of the gritty mix in terra cotta containers. I knew that was not the best time to bare root them but just didn't want to leave them in the 3 gallon black nursery containers they were in until spring as we still get quite a bit of heat here in the fall and winter here in south Florida. By January they looked horrible, had dropped a third of their leaves and turned completely yellow. I thought for sure I was going to lose them but after adding white vinegar to my weekly watering and giving them maintenance doses of Foliage Pro they are all greening up nicely, putting out blossoms and new foliage. Here's my question, I thought the 1/3 sectional root pruning was only for the things in the 5:1:1 mix, how would you do that with the gritty mix? I'd think that once you took a plant out of the gritty mix you'd pretty much be destined to a bare root pruning secondary to the mix falling away from the plant...after years in the gritty mix does it form concretions?

Tom

Tight roots - I just made the comment that a plant that goes in a container most growers would be apt to put it in can become root-bound in one year. I can think of a dozen trees that are extremely vigorous that show a considerable degree of decline after one year in a reasonably-sized pot. My suggestion to you was to start the cycle I suggested WHEN your plant becomes root-bound - that would be in the spring immediately after noticing symptoms of the plant being too tight in the container .... diminished branch extension, loss of interior foliage or that tuffty look with foliage concentrated at branch ends, general decline.

I don't understand: "However I've seen some of your posts avoid the "here's what works for me" and answer with the technicals and let them take what it they can." ... care to elaborate?

Tom - the sectional pruning isn't for plants in any particular type of soil - it's for plants that are known to tolerate root-work poorly, or plants about which it is unknown how they tolerate root pruning.

I worked on a small leafed linden tree (Tilia cordata) I'm growing on for bonsai, and for some reason, I'd let it stay in a container for 3 years - maybe four. I think it was because I didn't see much potential in the tree as bonsai material, but suddenly saw where I could go with it and decided to repot. It was a nightmare; and a plant in less than 3 quarts of soil took 2 hours to repot. THAT's how tight the roots were in the gritty mix. Answer your question after 3 or 4 growth cycles? ;o)

Al

THAT's how tight the roots were in the gritty mix. Answer your question after 3 or 4 growth cycles?

Got it Al, thanks!

Tom

Citrus roots just aren't going to grow that quickly.

Thanks for the confirmation. I've heard great things about the gritty mix, but I was going to be (pleasantly) surprised if it really was true roots could grow from a 5 or 7 gallon container to a 26" size (I know, a fairly unreasonable jump) in a year or two. We've got a few of these barrels and I should use 'em (fathers day presents and I bought one myself, all based on two big box stores suggestions). My boys and I even spent a couple days sealing them and building custom moving carts for underneath them. Boy, it's expensive filling these with soil, too. Oh well, they look nice and my wife love natural wood look.

I'm building medium size containers out of cedar (maybe about 10-12 gallon) to transfer newly purchased 3/5 gallon citrus.

I'd think that once you took a plant out of the gritty mix you'd pretty much be destined to a bare root pruning secondary to the mix falling away from the plant...after years in the gritty mix does it form concretions?

Tom, thanks for your information. This was my assumption, too. But I think he's referring to moving the entire old soil rootball into the gritty mix and sectional pruning on the old soil/roots. It would be two distinct soils until after the third time, then it would be completely bare root in gritty mix.

Al: ... care to elaborate?
It was meant to be a compliment about how you've responded with great technical and anecdotal information in prior posts to even somewhat silly questions, without saying "do it this way, it worked for me". I obviously didn't pull it off. :(

You guys are awesome! Thanks so much.

Chris

Lol - I wasn't fishing for a compliment - I just didn't understand. I try to avoid "It works for me" at almost any cost. It's fine in casual conversation, but used as an argument, it says nothing and is, practically speaking, worthless. I'd even written a rant at one time that I never posted about "It works for me." I was going to post it in the hope than whenever someone ran into another poster using that phrase as though it provided some kind of finality to the argument, they could post a link to it so the one using the phrase could see how silly it is - sort of a way to chide someone w/o having to go to the trouble of making the case. I figured I'd prolly be taking everyone's heat though, so I haven't posted it. Thanks for the compliment, btw. ;o)

Al