Malcolm: thanks for the info. on pH meter. I checked on that before, and found that most of them are not accurate, and even the more expensive one above $200 need to be re-calibrated before each use. Red cabbage boiled in distilled water is quite accurate, since I am testing one agent against each other: color of Miracle-Gro potting soil is very pink, against the color of Scott's premium top soil with peat moss (greenish blue). I checked the colors of all 10 samples after 1 hour: peat moss gets even pinker, Scott's premium soil gets greener. Reg_pnw7: thank you for your feed back, my goal is to learn, and I don't need to be right, since I'm a newbie. Corn meal tested neutral, and the color of red cabbage boiled in my alkaline tap water is bluish purple, compared to the color of red cabbage boiled in distilled water, pinkish purple. If you google "optimal pH for fungi growth", there are several that cited preferably acidic for fungi growth. The red cabbage boiled in distilled water is an interesting experiment to test various materials. Try it and you'll see how accurate it is by testing with at least 10 mediums: few drops of vinegar, coffee ground, peat moss, baking soda, MiracleGro potting soil versus Scott's bagged top soil. The peat moss and MiracleGro potting soil get more pink after several hours, and the Scott's get more green. I used quite accurate fish tank litmus paper (Jungle brand from Walmart). It correctly gave a 7 for distilled water, and a 8 for my tap water. The direction said to read within the first minute - it took more than 10 minutes to get the epsom salt to dissolve, and this gave a more alkaline false reading at pH 7.3 to 7.5. However, when epsom salt is tetsted with red cabbage, this gave a correct neutral pH: the color did not changed compared with the control red cabbage boiled in distilled water. Blackspots can germinate on the ground and get splashed up by rain water. This year I have zero blackspots on 10 Austin roses mulched with very alkaline horse manure, as recommended by the British.

Should have posted this sooner but here is a reply I got back from an inquiry - Thank you for your interest in the National Center for Home Food Preservation. Regarding your question: (My sent message) Background, I am a home food preservationist with an extensive history of home sausage making (both with hot ((refrigeration required)) and some cold smoking ((humidity and temperature controlled to produce country cured sausage, no refrigeration required)), home canning (pressure canning only, I do not trust water bath under any circumstances) and extensive dehydrating experience. I have done a little pickling under the recommendations that the USDA has out in regards to fish and hardboiled eggs (including the need for refrigeration). However in my research into historic preservation techniques I have found references to pickling (especially) fish preserved at room temperature. The references also stated that the vinegar solution used at the time was homemade and was of strength higher then the present 5% available for modern commercial sales. Given that botulism spores growth is inhibited at a PH of 4.6 and they can not therefore produce the toxins, the fact that! a 10% or 15% acetic acid can be readily produced using food safe glacial acetic acid (99.85% available commercially mixed in proper ratio with water (yes, acid to water, I remember basic chemistry) and the PH of the 10% solution is approximately 2.4 and given that 1.5â x 1.5â x 0.75â pieces of fish would readily equalize PH is this theoretically a safe preservation method. Please do not give me the standard rely of not recommended or approved due to lack of experimental data etc. brush off, I am just looking for a theoretical answer. (The reply) This is Elizabeth Andress, Director of the National Center. I personally apologize for not getting back to you sooner, but we have been trying to keep up with people needing help with more standardized recommendations and methods of preserving. I can tell you that under the circumstances you describe with the low pH environments, that theoretically botulism spore germination and toxin production does not seem likely. But that is indeed as much as I can say. You would want to make sure the fish pieces get below pH 4.6 throughout fairly quickly to keep it longer at room temperature (probably at least within 24 hours). It is not a brushoff but a fact that no one here has any practical experience with pickling fish at room temperature (or for that matter, at any temperature). We do not have USDA pickling or smoking for fish on our website or in the USDA canning guide, but there is information from Oregon State University we have shared on smoking fish. I have pretty much relied on contacts in Alaska, or formerly in Oregon, for issues related to smoking and pickling of fish. You also might find an actual food microbiologist actively researching with bacteria at Univ. of Wisconsin who knows more in detail of C. bot. patterns. Thank you, Elizabeth Andress

Good Morning! It may be a beautiful cold morning, but I'd rather have a beautiful warm morning. : ) This is only my opinion but I base it on the advise given over the years by the real experts (not the wannabe ones) over at the Soil, Compost and Mulch Forum here at Garden Web. I don't believe the inexpensive pH meters are accurate unless you are willing to spend several hundred dollars to get a really good one, and I've never seen a pH meter in a garden catalog that would qualify as a really good one. Even if you spent several hundred dollars to get a really good one, you'd still have to be sure to store it properly (in a wet solution at all times) and to calibrate it before every use. Of all the things I'd ever spend my gardening money on, a pH meter, cheap or expensive, wouldn't even make the list. The cheap ones aren't good, they aren't accurate and their reading can vary because of many other factors like moisture levels, how recently you've fertilized, etc. The old one you already have probably is more accurate than anything you'd ever see in a gardening catalog aimed at home gardeners. It is the mixture of soil/water in the proper ratio that gives you more accurate results than you'd get with the cheap ones made to just stick into the soil. Those are easier to use but notoriously inaccurate. I'm assuming you store your old meter properly and that you always use distilled water so your reading isn't influenced by the pH of your tap water. (Our tap water is usually around 8 to 8.2 but our improved soil is much lower than that, so if I used our tap water in a solution for a pH meter test, it would give inaccurate results.) If you need to know what is going on with your soil, a soil test is the way to go absolutely, positively every time. Nothing else is a good substitute. I don't think 3 soil tests is the way to go unless you feel like there is a reason your three kinds of soil would test drastically differently. The preferred method for soil testing is to follow the directions given by the soil testing lab and those directions normally tell you to take samples from several areas, mix them together and send in that mixture to get an idea of your soil's overall condition. The only exception to that would be if you already have an area with highly improved soil and you want to test it and an area with totally unimproved soil that you're going to turn into a new growing area. In that case, I'd do separate tests. The extension service soil tests are fine. Another very highly recommended soil lab is linked below. It has been around a very long time and has an excellent reputation for outstanding service. And for what it is worth, those little soil test kits you see in nurseries and gardening catalogs are not highly accurate either. I might as well throw that in now because lots of gardeners buy them and they're a wasted if you're looking for accurate information. A real soil test tells you about so much more than just your nutrient levels and soil pH. It tells you about your CEC and your approximate percentage of organic matter for starters, and to me those are more important than nutrient levels. Dawn Here is a link that might be useful: Texas Plant and Soil Lab

EC, PPM, pH meters Posted topics included in this FAQ are: Basics of EC PPM testing--is it necessary? Looking for a nutrient meter Basics of EC Posted by thedude27 (My Page) on Thu, Jan 12, 06 at 16:46 Hello, I'm new to hydroponics growing and have a basic question about mixing the nutrient solution. Currently I'm growing some sage in a homemade DWC system and was wondering if I'm mixing the nutrient solution correctly. When you are mixing to obtain say 1500ppm nutrient solution do you add the 1500ppm on top of the reading of your water without solution? So if I had water that was reading say 500ppm before adding anything would I then add solution to bring the reading to 2000ppm? Or could that provide your plant too much of a certain nutrient (obviously something is in there raising the count). Also at what point (well water) hardness would you consider using distilled/spring water? For me its not such a big deal since my grow (crop) is small for now, but it would be easier to just use tap water (or filtered tap water). Response: Posted by: hank_mili Z11 (My Page) on Fri, Jan 13, 06 at 17:40 The PPM in your tap water is the same whether you have a tablespoon or a gallon. The PPM of the solution from the nutrient concentrate will depend on the volume of water you mix with it. Need to keep in mind that PPM is always a calculated value not like EC (electrical conductivity) which is directly measured. This is why many prefer using an EC meter for measuring nutrient concentration versus a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter, which is an EC meter with a calculation algorithm built in. Unless otherwise stated on the label, the calculated PPM of the solution will assume mixing pure water with the concentrate. But to answer your question the final PPM will be additive and 2000 PPM would be correct. Posted by: thedude27 (My Page) on Sat, Jan 14, 06 at 23:29 Thanks a bunch Hank, that helped a lot :) I guess I should have gotten the EC meter instead of the PPM but I got a really good deal on a Newport DSPH-3 (dissolved solids/PH) that I couldn't pass up. Although I'd imagine I could just get the conversion formula from the company and reverse the calculation (although I suppose I'd need accurate temperature readings too). Thanks again PPM testing--is it necessary? Posted by Luckyleaf 7 TN (My Page) on Sun, Oct 10, 04 at 23:22 Is it necessary to use PPM testing if I will be growing some tomatoes in a bubbler? Also, if you say it is, what should the ranges be for the nutes in the veg stage and the fruit stage? Thanks! Response: Posted by: AdrianaG AL z7 (My Page) on Thu, Oct 14, 04 at 19:09 Only if you want healthy plants...and the meter you want is an EC meter, not a ppm meter. Posted by: hank_mili Z11 (My Page) on Sat, Oct 16, 04 at 2:53 Checking your pH and salts concentration of your nutrients is analogous to checking the fluids in your car. You can get away with not doing it but it is not recommended. It's extra work and expense but gives you important information on the condition of your nutrients. Product.....pH..............cF...........ppm Tomato....6.0 - 6.5...20 - 50......1400 - 3500 Posted by: Luckyleaf 7 TN (My Page) on Sat, Oct 16, 04 at 11:17 How do I get the PPM up to 1400-3500? Just add 2x the recommended dose of the nutes for the plants? The PPM of my water is ~50, so thats a far way to go Posted by: willard3 (My Page) on Sun, Oct 17, 04 at 9:58 It will make a difference how large your reservoir is to get nutrients up to correct ppm. Start keeping a log and how much and when to add and change nutrients will become much clearer to you. PPM and Ph are closely related so you should test and record Ph as well. Posted by: Luckyleaf 7 TN (My Page) on Sun, Oct 17, 04 at 15:49 Well I'm doing 5 gal bubblers, and I wont have a reservoir. It is usually like a tsp or something per gallon for each nute, but since tomatoes have different needs I would have to do something like a tbsp per gal? ...in general I would have to use more than the recommended dose Posted by: willard3 (My Page) on Mon, Oct 18, 04 at 8:49 All nutrients are different; all nutrients have different mineral concentrations. 1. Go buy an EC meter 2. add nutrients 3. Measure nutrient concentration Posted by: Hydro4me z5 IN (My Page) on Tue, Oct 19, 04 at 11:37 Hey there Adriana, I have the (brand name) Nutrient Meter, but it reads, "442", "KCL", and "uS" (which I believe is micro siemens). I have heard that the 442 is good for testing pond water with fish and plants, and KCL is potassium chloride. I have no clue which one to use for testing my Millennium nutrients. I try to keep the blinking LED's in the middle, but peppers or tomatoes require higher levels. Any advice from other hydro gardeners? Thanks, Jason Posted by: willard3 (My Page) on Wed, Oct 20, 04 at 21:25 Most published stuff on hydro is given in ppm. I have on that has been working fine for 5 yrs. RE: meters ppm (ec) and ph Posted by: NLG1 7b-8a (My Page) on Wed, Apr 27, 05 at 18:11 You can find meters for around $30.00. They work, but for how long is the real question. What you want out of a meter. 1: waterproof 2: warranty 3: replaceable probe 4: pH range 1-14 +/- .1 5: ppm range 1-1999 Posted by: willard3 (My Page) on Thu, Apr 28, 05 at 9:20 A good cheap meter is an oxymoron. You should get a good meter, no matter what it costs. Hydro goes sooooo much better if you know accurately and repeatable the Ph and EC of nutrient solution. $50/meter is what I paid and it's worth every penny. Posted by: HydroBotany Indoors (My Page) on Fri, Oct 28, 05 at 18:40 (HydroBotany suggests a double junction (DJ) product). That is the most important thing with hydroponics. A DJ meter handles the environment the best and last the longest. artisan also has a good meter and it can be used continuously if you want it to RE: meters ppm(ec) and ph Posted by: hank_mili Z11 (My Page) on Fri, Oct 28, 05 at 21:49 I tend to be biased toward (another product). Very reliable. No problems so far. RE: Looking for a nutrient meter Posted by marshallwilson z4 CO (My Page) on Sun, Sep 25, 05 at 9:27 New to hydroponics. Basic ebb and flow system. Using 2 part dry nutrients (from CK). Currently outside, will be moving inside under lights soon. I'm looking for an inexpensive way to monitor my nutrient level. Hoping for suggestions on meters. As an alternative; can I just change out the entire solution every 2 weeks (suggestion from the local hydro shop)? I do get a fair amount of evaporation during the 2 week cycle. Should I just top off the nut solution with plain water? Thanks Marshall Response: Posted by: propman Z10 CA (My Page) on Sun, Sep 25, 05 at 11:47 I just got a ppm meter for about $35. Before that I just used the recommended dose on the bottle per gallon of water. What I found when I tested the water was way too stong because my water has 150 ppm before I added nutrients. The meter is a good idea. Here is a link that might be useful: pictures of my lettuce Posted by: hank_mili Z11 (My Page) on Sat, Oct 22, 05 at 1:03 Hope you have a pH meter or strips. One can calculate ppm but you can only measure pH. RE: Looking for a nutrient meter Posted by: HydroBotany Indoors (My Page) on Fri, Oct 28, 05 at 18:03 Just top it off with plain water.